Kansas girl, 5, may face murder charges in drowning

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (Reuters) – A 5-year-old girl could face murder charges in the recent drowning of a toddler in a bathtub, police said on Thursday.

Kansas City police are waiting for a medical examiner's report on how Jermane Johnson Jr., died, but have investigated the death as a homicide, spokesman Darin Snapp said Thursday.
!Yahoo< br />

When I read this article I was shocked with grief! You think to yourself how can a 5 year old drown a toddler?!

The article goes on to say how the babysitter fell asleep and this is what the 5 year old girl responded with...

Investigators learned through interviews that a 5-year-old girl in the house got irritated at the boy, Snapp said.

"She said she got angry because he would not stop crying and she held him under the water until he stopped crying," Snapp said.

Now, this article got me thinking...how is the 5 year old going to determine right from wrong? Isn't that why by law children under a certain age NEED supervision? I personally thought some of the charges should be shifted to the babysitter and the parents for hiring a babysitter.

But I think the 5 year old girl wouldn't know better because they haven't been in many stressful situations.

What do you guys think?

Do you think it could be a possibility that the babysitter could have left the baby unattended while filling the tub, thinking he would be safe, but really he wasn't?

The story sounds a bit fishy to me...

reply to post by Equinox99


I think I need to take a vacation from ATS for a while..
Some of these stories cause serious emotional stress.
I don't want to hide from the truth, but seriously, who really wants to hear horrifying things like this?

There is absolutely no way this 5 year old will be charged with murder. There is absolutely no way this 5 year old will ever go to trial. Can you imagine a murder trial with a jury of her peers in attendance?

This story really is tragic but that 5 year old did not understand death & dying, nor did she understand what she was doing. She simply just wanted him to stop crying.

The title of the news story is just sensationalism to get people to read it.

reply to post by Equinox99


This is so sad! While a 5 yr old should know not to hold a baby under water, they just don't! I have three (2 of my own) kids and have watched children. These "girls" when playing with their dolls and Barbie's they simply do not know how to care for them at all and you have to teach them. Key word....TEACH!

The babysitter should be held responsible as this was her job to watch over the children and the 5 yr old should not be responsible as she is not old enough to "watch" and care for another child! How sad!

Its just sad and unfortunate all around.
Babysitter clearly sucks at her job..but I don't imagine criminal charges should come from it..I imagine she is already tortured enough about the whole situation.

The little girl obviously has no clue of right or wrong...she is probably wondering why the baby is still asleep frankly.

I see nothing that can be learned, gained, or built from this...simply a very sad loss of life overall.

Now, some therapy may be in order for the little girl, because eventually she is going to realize the full impact of death, and she is going to have some serious issues with herself.

As far as a learning experience...well, I recommend everyone buy their little kids a goldfish to teach them about the finality of death..to include fake tears, a service, and even a little fishy grave in the backyard..let them know very early on that death is not a good thing (yes, wait a week or so, then sneak into their room and kill it..bleach will do the job nice and quick...remember, its a lesson we are going for afterall)

_________
Off topic add:
sidenote...I just got done watching evil little girl films reciently..."The Orphan" and "Case 39"

of course, there is a part of me that is eyeing this 5 year old suspiciously...just saying

I live in Kansas City, and this has become a highly debatable topic. Problem is, however; it's not really a debate because no one I've talked to could even fathom why anyone would even bring up a 5 year old being tried as an adult. And no, it isn't the news that is making that statement up, those were words spoken by the DA. A 5 year old does not comprehend life and death. This child will now enjoy a life full of remorse and regret. All responsibility goes to the baby sitter IMO.

do not leave children unattended...........

they are children.

and a five year old being tried as an adult?!?!?! Throw it out.

This is crap. Its a terrible set of circumstances.

this girl will have to face what she did the rest of her life....

imagine how your life would be when you killed the next baby of your parents...

they will never forget what you did...even when u just 5 years old at that moment..

but i agree the story sounds fishy....i would take a closer watch to the babysitter

Unless they change the law she cannot be tried as an adult. Kansas has no set minimum age of criminal responsibility therefore it uses the common law age of 7 years old.

"She said she got angry because he would not stop crying and she held him under the water until he stopped crying,"

How does a 5-year-old even come up with this idea....learned behavior perhaps?

Hopefully some criminal charges are brought up against the babysitter. If not, certainly there will be a civil negligence case.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Its just sad and unfortunate all around.
Babysitter clearly sucks at her job..but I don't imagine criminal charges should come from it..I imagine she is already tortured enough about the whole situation.

The little girl obviously has no clue of right or wrong...she is probably wondering why the baby is still asleep frankly.

I see nothing that can be learned, gained, or built from this...simply a very sad loss of life overall.

Now, some therapy may be in order for the little girl, because eventually she is going to realize the full impact of death, and she is going to have some serious issues with herself.

As far as a learning experience...well, I recommend everyone buy their little kids a goldfish to teach them about the finality of death..to include fake tears, a service, and even a little fishy grave in the backyard..let them know very early on that death is not a good thing (yes, wait a week or so, then sneak into their room and kill it..bleach will do the job nice and quick...remember, its a lesson we are going for afterall)

_________
Off topic add:
sidenote...I just got done watching evil little girl films reciently..."The Orphan" and "Case 39"

of course, there is a part of me that is eyeing this 5 year old suspiciously...just saying

edit on 10-6-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

I cant believe this post came from you saturn fx. So we should intentionally kill an innocent animal of free will to teach our young that dying is a bad thing? so lets murder a creature to teach children not to murder?

Dying isnt even a bad thing! its just part of the circle...killing is the bad thing. you cant tell kids stuff like that at that age, it sticks with them through life and is hard to shake. It is called "indoctrination".

You just can't apply adult moral standards to a young, cerebrally underdeveloped child.

If guilty, this 5-year-old should be taken into a correctional facility, where her emotional development can be monitored and assessed, without the potential risk of her posing a harmful threat to anybody else.

I don't see any problem with trying her in a criminal court. Obviously, there will be extraordinary circumstances which are taken into account when considering any judicial proceedings, but I don't see why the age of the accused should interfere with due process and any enforcement of justice.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
There is absolutely no way this 5 year old will be charged with murder. There is absolutely no way this 5 year old will ever go to trial. Can you imagine a murder trial with a jury of her peers in attendance?

This story really is tragic but that 5 year old did not understand death & dying, nor did she understand what she was doing. She simply just wanted him to stop crying.

The title of the news story is just sensationalism to get people to read it.

edit on 10/6/2011 by Iamonlyhuman because: (no reason given)

This pretty much is the truth here. Age of reason for children in these types circumstances is I think 8. It is assumed by then you grow enough knowledge of right and wrong to tell the difference.
I do think the 5 year old has some emotional and mental deficiencies that would ALLOW her to consider and do such a thing. She may NOT have made the connection and KNOWN what would happen to her brother would be permanent. She needs some serious counseling, evaluation and constant supervision herself.

The baby sitter can be charged with the death of the infant since it was her action of falling asleep that allowed the death. One could argue it may have happened even if the babysitter was AWAKE and watching TV or preparing a meal for the children.

Imagine the 5 year old growing up and living a "normal" life after this?
Would you want this child to babysit for you?
Trouble is there will be no record and no one will know.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

I cant believe this post came from you saturn fx. So we should intentionally kill an innocent animal of free will to teach our young that dying is a bad thing? so lets murder a creature to teach children not to murder?

Sadly yes, the best teacher (for a child) is experience.
I would say a hamster or mouse, but meh..they are too cute and furry.
killing a goldfish, well, as an avid fisherman, I am not overly attached to "bait fish" and goldfish are the defacto feeder fish anyhow.

Dying isnt even a bad thing! its just part of the circle...killing is the bad thing. you cant tell kids stuff like that at that age, it sticks with them through life and is hard to shake. It is called "indoctrination".

Thats sort of the point...at a tender and young age, let them understand the perm status of death. the loss, the sadness, etc. explain how death occurs (once they see their beloved Mr Scaley start floating), to include old age, accidents, etc...let them respect death and know about it clearly.

It will cause some nightmares perhaps, but with proper parenting, they will have a very healthy outlook on respect for life and how not to kill stuff in the future.

Life stands on the back of death. whenever you eat, something dies. this is the simple facts of life and so if it takes the death of a goldfish to teach a child not to kill the baby, then so be it...but actually, bringing them fishing may also teach that, and get you dinner at the same time.

reply to post by aching_knuckles

I cant believe this post came from you saturn fx. So we should intentionally kill an innocent animal of free will to teach our young that dying is a bad thing? so lets murder a creature to teach children not to murder?

Where did Saturn say anything about intentionally killing the goldfish? Didn't happen. And I agree. Kids need to learn the finality of death - and there's just no venue for such thing these days for the most part. (No chickens to kill down on the farm type thing)...

Anyway, that being said? Put a goldfish in the same room with youngsters for more than a few days and as most parents already know - it goes belly up - best of care or no. Goldfish have become modern man's unwilling right to passage death ritual participant.

For the little girl - it's just horrific. It really makes me wonder where NURTURING has gone in our young people? I just read where a litle girl poured gasoline on her PUPPY (or all things) and lit it on fire.

Man o man. When me and my little friends were 5 and something cried - baby or puppy - we wanted to nurture - not drown it - or burn it to death.

Nurturing... Where's it gone?

peace

Jesus Christ stories like this make me so mad. how can you even hold a 5 year old child culpable? that babysitter should be brought up on charges of murder and neglect of a child imho, if it wasn't for her falling alseep this wouldnt have happened

Has the DA lost their marbles sheesh, how can you expect a 5yr old child to understand what she did, understand the outcome of what she did. or what he gonna do charge her with diminished responsibility? he will be the laughing stock of the country imho not to mention the backlash that will come from it. i cant imagine how her parents feel right now, they have already lost a baby and now face the prospect of their 5 yr old child being charged with an adult offense, were is the logic in that?. This child will forever be labeled in life now because of the babysitters neglect of a child in her care and that right there is the biggest tragedy of all.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Dying isnt even a bad thing! its just part of the circle...killing is the bad thing. you cant tell kids stuff like that at that age, it sticks with them through life and is hard to shake. It is called "indoctrination".

If dying isn't a bad thing why do people go to such lengths to avoid it?

You apparently never got the goldfish lesson.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
You just can't apply adult moral standards to a young, cerebrally underdeveloped child.

If guilty, this 5-year-old should be taken into a correctional facility, where her emotional development can be monitored and assessed, without the potential risk of her posing a harmful threat to anybody else.

I don't see any problem with trying her in a criminal court. Obviously, there will be extraordinary circumstances which are taken into account when considering any judicial proceedings, but I don't see why the age of the accused should interfere with due process and any enforcement of justice.

dude she is 5 YEARS OLD please explain to me how a 5 year old grasps the concept of the severity of what she has done? in her mind all she was doing was tryint o stop the child from crying, do u seriously think it entered her mind to intentionally kill?

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
If guilty, this 5-year-old should be taken into a correctional facility, where her emotional development can be monitored and assessed, without the potential risk of her posing a harmful threat to anybody else.

I think at best, therapy...thats it.
correctional facility? for doing something a cotton brained child thought was fine? keep in mind, their understanding of the world at this point comes from cartoons, where gravity only comes into play when you notice your standing on air, if you get shot the only thing that happens is your face becomes blackened and burnt and you gotta shake it off, etc.

Actually, family therapy is in order...no doubt the parents are going to be carrying around some unfocused frustration and anger

Why would anyone leave kids in the bath, on their own? The baby was one and a half for gods sake. No five year old should be left alone with a baby either. Why is the babysitter not charged with something?

I can't see how the babysitter fell asleep and slept through the baby crying. She must have left them alone for ages. Clearly, its the babysitters fault the baby was drowned. A five year old doesn't have the same concept of death that adults do.

The little girl has to live with this her whole life, knowing she killed a baby. Obviously, had they had a different babysitter, it wouldn't have happened. Just heartbreaking.