Whatever You Do, Don’t Call 911!

reply to post by OccamAssassin


Well if I as an ordinary citizen, saw someone harassing an eldery or disabled person, I would come to their aid. That is what a responsible and caring citizen does.

Also, a weapon is the great equalizer. Keeping all members of a society equal. From a man in a wheelchair to a tiny old lady (or even a normal citizen vs an oppressive government). If they are armed, they are an equal citizen in force to even a pro kickboxer.

reply to post by Redwookieaz


try reading what i wrote - its very simple

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Is it? Apparently it is still too advanced for me then. I thought that my response was applicable to what you said and I wanted more details as to what you were trying to insinuate.

Will you make it more simple for me since I'm not getting it?

reply to post by Havick007


Fair enough my friend. Star for you. As a free person, you are entitled to your opinion. I share your hope for a peaceful and prosperous future.

Originally posted by Redwookieaz
reply to post by OccamAssassin

 

Well if I as an ordinary citizen, saw someone harassing an eldery or disabled person, I would come to their aid. That is what a responsible and caring citizen does.

Also, a weapon is the great equalizer. Keeping all members of a society equal. From a man in a wheelchair to a tiny old lady (or even a normal citizen vs an oppressive government). If they are armed, they are an equal citizen in force to even a pro kickboxer.

edit on 10-6-2011 by Redwookieaz because: (no reason given)

My point is that some of the members of the community are unable to defend themselves....Even with firearms.

A quadriplegic has little hope in defending his/herself....some elderly persons have crippling arthritis and no hope of holding a gun, let alone pulling the trigger.

However, after reading your previous posts I can totally understand where you are coming from and I agree with a lot (most) of what you have said.

I suppose it boils down to individual situations and circumstances.

Police can be a godsend in an ideal world or a curse in a corrupt one.

reply to post by OccamAssassin


Good response. I completely agree. If we had done our part as stewards of individual freedom, we may have never ended up at this point.

So let me get this straight, if 5 guys kicked in your front door like a home invasion scenario. They then held you down and took turns raping your wife and kids while forcing you to watch. After they left you would not call the cops, are you seriously deranged?


Or on a less dramatic note you came home to find that your house had been robbed. How about then would you still not call the police?

I had several friends in the police community prior to the early 90's shift from being Peace officers,to becoming Law enforcement officers. They all retired or quit their posts,I guess they saw the writing on the wall so to speak. The police have no mandate to protect a citizen ! That was spelled out by the SCOTUS. You are your own protection !!
You call the police and invite them in your home,odds are that they will search your home for contraband.IT is unnerving to be the victim,and be treated as the criminal.

Originally posted by daddyroo45
I had several friends in the police community prior to the early 90's shift from being Peace officers,to becoming Law enforcement officers. They all retired or quit their posts,I guess they saw the writing on the wall so to speak. The police have no mandate to protect a citizen ! That was spelled out by the SCOTUS. You are your own protection !!
You call the police and invite them in your home,odds are that they will search your home for contraband.IT is unnerving to be the victim,and be treated as the criminal.

You mention here and an earlier post speaks also of a change that occurred in the early mid-90's that transformed the duties of police agencies. Was this just a social change that people perceive to have occurred about that time or was this an actual policy shift that was handed down from on-high?

Is there an actual ruling, statement, or law that changes them from "peace officers" to "law enforcement officers"? If so I was not aware of the change except that it became apparent something occurred around that time. During that period I was working remote duty then retired and left the US for another country. There had been a tension building up, it seemed, predicated by the War on Drugs which appeared to make everyone a suspect, then later circumstances caused all to be treated as suspected terrorists as well.

Living in a country which seems to have such a bad reputation for violence I am actually fearful of even making a visit to the US and feel much safer where I am. These past few years here in Mexico there seems to be an effort underway to de-stabilize our systems and way-of-life and a move toward much more meddling by police and government into people's lives. The so-called "cartels" are mostly invisible but police presence, checkpoints, searches, and other intrusions are becoming much more commonplace, all in the name of the War on Drugs.

Originally posted by lokdog
Or on a less dramatic note you came home to find that your house had been robbed. How about then would you still not call the police?

Two scenarios.

1) House robbed, cops called, cops rifled through everything making a bigger mess than the thieves did, wrote out a report then left. That was it. Nothing came back, was found and as far as anyone knows nobody was ever charged.

I've heard stories where cops actually do find your stuff but it gets held up for years in storage or even destroyed if the items are firearms.

2)House robbed, cops not called. Cleaned up. Took inventory. Hired investigator. Virtually everything recovered within a month.

So one requires an army of armed thugs assuming complete control over your affairs at your peers expense and yields no result.

The other requires no prostrate submission and no further expense (the foot work can be done by yourself if you arent an idiot) and results in a positive yield.

Even in a case of burglary the police are not needed and even potentially a liability.

People have to stop believing the police are magicians who can do things you cannot. Sure, they do. Like rob, rape, steal, beat and murder. But as far as solving a problem and getting a situation resolved they do not do anything you cant and often times either due to work load or straight corruption they cant or wont even do what you could.

I've experienced the same with muggings. Just tracking down the guy and getting your stuff back was far more effective than calling the cops and making a report and giving a description and just forgetting about it because nothing was ever going to come of it.

They hate it when you take care of things yourself. They really hate it when you get results.

reply to post by hawkiye


The time has come when we can't trust the ones who try to help us. Now we have to help ourselves.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Dude I don't believe half of what you just spouted, you track down muggers and theives on your own lol yeah right. I guess it's to bad we don't have more people like you we wouldnt need the police. We could just hook you up with a Batman costume and save all kinds of tax dollars.

reply to post by lokdog


Thisguyrightthere is correct my friend. It would be the better course of action to hire an investigator. Police do nothing to help with recovery of stolen goods. At best they come to your home and fill out a report and if they happen to stumble upon your property there is a very slim chance they MAY give you that property back.

In many cities, they don't even show up at your house anymore. They just mail you paperwork to sign if you have been robbed.

reply to post by daddyroo45


Your post rings true. That change is what eventually led to me quitting. It is also the bane that sent many of my fellow officers packing in the mid-nineties. The ones that stuck it out came to despise there jobs and the people they worked with for the most part.

Some were even forced out because they fought against the new culture or were at least ostricized.

Originally posted by Redwookieaz
reply to post by OccamAssassin

 

Well if I as an ordinary citizen, saw someone harassing an eldery or disabled person, I would come to their aid. That is what a responsible and caring citizen does.

Also, a weapon is the great equalizer. Keeping all members of a society equal. From a man in a wheelchair to a tiny old lady (or even a normal citizen vs an oppressive government). If they are armed, they are an equal citizen in force to even a pro kickboxer.

edit on 10-6-2011 by Redwookieaz because: (no reason given)

Exactly!

Thanks for answering all the objections in this thread so far. I agree with all you have said in all your posts! I will not be back till later to respond more in this thread but with you here it is in good hands!

To prevent home intrusions, the best thing to do is get yourself a guard dog, which is not only on site 24/7 protecting you and your home, but is also a lot more loyal, trustworthy, reliable and intelligent than most police officers.

House burglarized call police to make a report for the insurance company. After that nothing more is usually done. Insurance pays off and have damages fixed then buy new toys. Car stolen, same scenario but cops often find the car, eventually, in some condition or another.

When dealing with insurance companies it is usually required to submit a police report. If not then I agree, waste of time to call them and often can be to your detriment to do so.

Call 911 and it is an open invitation to look for a deeper problem. Might be a good idea if you are experiencing a home invasion and have time to dial 911. Hang up or leave phone off hook the police will almost certainly show up and look for something, look for you if the invaders answer the door and try to tell them it was a mistake.

Don't call 911 frivilously. Best not to involve the police at all when possible.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by daddyroo45
I had several friends in the police community prior to the early 90's shift from being Peace officers,to becoming Law enforcement officers. They all retired or quit their posts,I guess they saw the writing on the wall so to speak. The police have no mandate to protect a citizen ! That was spelled out by the SCOTUS. You are your own protection !!
You call the police and invite them in your home,odds are that they will search your home for contraband.IT is unnerving to be the victim,and be treated as the criminal.

You mention here and an earlier post speaks also of a change that occurred in the early mid-90's that transformed the duties of police agencies. Was this just a social change that people perceive to have occurred about that time or was this an actual policy shift that was handed down from on-high?

Is there an actual ruling, statement, or law that changes them from "peace officers" to "law enforcement officers"? If so I was not aware of the change except that it became apparent something occurred around that time. During that period I was working remote duty then retired and left the US for another country. There had been a tension building up, it seemed, predicated by the War on Drugs which appeared to make everyone a suspect, then later circumstances caused all to be treated as suspected terrorists as well.

Living in a country which seems to have such a bad reputation for violence I am actually fearful of even making a visit to the US and feel much safer where I am. These past few years here in Mexico there seems to be an effort underway to de-stabilize our systems and way-of-life and a move toward much more meddling by police and government into people's lives. The so-called "cartels" are mostly invisible but police presence, checkpoints, searches, and other intrusions are becoming much more commonplace, all in the name of the War on Drugs.

During the Clinton administration there was a definite build up toward militarization of the police force.
excerpt taken from an article by Rev.Larry Ellis. These are his words and not my own !
"Militarization began with the creation of SWAT teams in response to the urban rebellions and anti-war protests of the 1960s. But it has really accelerated under the Clinton administration with the passage of the 1994 Crime and 1996 Anti-Terrorism bills. These bills greatly expanded the US military and federal roles in domestic policing in terms of funding, training, and law enforcement operations. These bills created many exemptions to the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act which prohibited the military from domestic policing. Today, with SWAT teams in 90% of cities over 50,000 and 70% of towns under 50,000, the US military is training police and accompanying them on police operations."

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Too right. I failed to mention the requirement of a police report in most cases to get your insurance check. You are also very correct that if you do call the police, you can be guaranteed that they will keep an eye out for anything else going on that may implicate you, the victim.

You have a marijuana roach in your ashtray. or perhaps some other contraband, you will cease being a victim of robbery and instead be a criminal.

Originally posted by laiguana
I would say the majority of police officers have good intentions and are there to serve the public. There are bad apples in every trade, and the police department is no different. I can't say I've ever really had an issue with a police officer. A police person's disposition could also have something to do with where you live.

I used to feel like you. it is so strange we are in a small town, we supposedly have no money for law inforcement so we have been told, but something is so wrong. Everywhere you go even on the back streets you always see highway patrol and Sheriff cars, they get behind you and tailgate you, they are everywhere all in brand new vehicles!
And yet the crime is so bad here and the other day a friends Mother's home was broken into, an intruder entered and she called 911, they told her there were calls before hers and she would have to wait, the guy is coming at her, she tells them that and drops the phone ...they never did come.
She got lucky. he ran what if he hadn't.
Strange they got a guy who was recently released from prison with drugs and a gun in his house, a felony he was on parole he was not prosecuted...that kind of stuff keeps happening but average citizens keep being harassed and NOT helped when they need help.