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Why a Singler Payer System Will Be a Failure: healthcare and Big Oil

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posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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So i am sitting here thinking to myself of the stupidity of a single payer system for healthcare.

Obama Care aka the care act is exactly designed to do one thing to make healthcare so expensive and to break the system that the all knowing all powerful all benevolent entity known as the federal government come to the rescue to a problem for which it already created.

Private Healthcare is the best in this country and no one can deny that fact for we the people altho one could argue our us congressmans healthcare is substantial better than private care.

private healthcare works for the simply fact that is is profit driven and it makes it money counting on the health of younger people who can goes 10 or 20 years without using it and they finance those who do use it and the biggest reason it works it people pay for it so what i will call it is you pay for it care.

medicare is designed for those disabled and older people who do use their care on a daily basis which has strict government guidelines and rules and regulations and is non profit and they also pay for it with a clear difference between private care aka you pay for it care is that there is everyone using it unlike the period of time that most people do not use private healthcare.

medicaid is designed for those who cant afford healthcare and receive substantial less quality care than private healthcare and somewhat on par with medicare with exception those receiving it isnt paying for it those other people are.


so what we have here is:

private healthcare
medicare
medicaid

then comes along obama and his wonderful wisdom of obama care making people in the first time in this nations history buy a good or service.

many people who couldnt afford healthcare are now mandated to buy something they couldnt afford to buy in the first place so what will end up happening are two things.

people will be footing the bill agian for more than they previously were and the skyrocketing cost of healthcare that was already skyrocketing.

for those who think its a great thing think agian obama care is designed to crash the system it will kill off competition to the point that something will have to be done "never letting a crisis" go to waste obama and the powers that be will impliment a single payer system.


now for the big oil part

As it stands right now there are only a handful of oil companies competing to bring oil to the market exactly like
only a few companies offering healthcare.

we see the rising cost of both products and services reaching alarming proportions and both are squeezing americans like never before.


so people would you support a single payer big oil system? if not why sould you support a single healthcare option.

there is no competition for either market more people competing to bring those goods and services to market would drastically reduce cost to us.


the insanity in this country must stop.


thoughts? and please people its not the greed of big insurance its the greed of big goverment control that has created this situtation big government has squeezed the little guy out of both areas.




posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
Private Healthcare is the best in this country and no one can deny that fact for we the people altho one could argue our us congressmans healthcare is substantial better than private care.


Can you perhaps explain that sentence a little? It the best what out of what, based on what? And yes, the congressional healthcare offered to them is far better than any private insurance plan out there. They get great healthcare for free and yet they still get that healthcare in the US, number 35 in heathcare worldwide.

It is clear how you feel. Can you introduce some facts and numbers?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by Antiquated1
 


really do people on private healthcare get the best doctors that money can buy

if your a us congressman you can but if your like me you dont.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Obama care is not a single payer system.

What is Single Payer?


Single-payer is a term used to describe a type of financing system. It refers to one entity acting as administrator, or “payer.” In the case of health care, a single-payer system would be setup such that one entity—a government run organization—would collect all health care fees, and pay out all health care costs. In the current US system, there are literally tens of thousands of different health care organizations—HMOs, billing agencies, etc. By having so many different payers of health care fees, there is an enormous amount of administrative waste generated in the system. (Just imagine how complex billing must be in a doctor’s office, when each insurance company requires a different form to be completed, has a different billing system, different billing contacts and phone numbers—it’s very confusing.) In a single-payer system, all hospitals, doctors, and other health care providers would bill one entity for their services. This alone reduces administrative waste greatly, and saves money, which can be used to provide care and insurance to those who currently don’t have it.

What Is Single Payer?

See if you want a model of single payer, do not look to this farce called Obamacare... Look to Sweden and Norway.

Health policy in Sweden is a national-level responsibility. Over the past 20 years Sweden has an average reinvestment of some 9.2% of its GDP annually on healthcare. However, around 70 percent of healthcare services are funded through local government taxes. In fact, Sweden's health care system is highly decentralized. Its 21 county councils are responsible for hospitals and GPs, while its 290 municipalities provide municipal care. In Sweden, the county councils and municipalities are also the main providers of healthcare, with only about 10% of all health services delivered by private providers.


Swedish Healthcare System


All Norwegians are insured by the National Insurance Scheme. This is a universal, tax-funded, single-payer health system. Compared to France, Italy, Spain and Japan, Norway has the most centralized system.

Percent Insured. 100%. All Norwegian citizens and residents are covered.


Healthcare Around The World



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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no kidding it is the step that will lead to it destroying the current system so that it will be needed.

the question i want to be answered in this thread:

would you want a single entity( oil company) setting the price of gasoline in this country ??

yes or no ?


they use to call that a monopoly guess its lost its meaning.


edit on 10-6-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


You only think that way about healthcare because you can afford.... forget about the millions of your fellow citizens that pray they dont get sick.


Australia
UK
France,
The other majority parts Europe
Canada
Mexico
New Zealand
Brazil
+ many many more....................... all have free universal healthcare.

Universal Healthcare List



It seems the USA is the odd one out when it comes to looking after the health of it's citizens, but it has plenty of missles, fighter jets and other defence related crap....


People that claim it's socialism dont know what they are talking about. The government doesnt have to pay and private companies get richer off inflated pricing. They look for excuses on how to deny healthcare claims sentencing people to death basically.

It's disgusting.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by Havick007
 


its not the governments responsiblity to provide it not force anyone to pay for it or make others pay for someone elses as the case in this country.

healthcare is a good and service that anyone can buy just like a tv just like an internet service.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I cant speak for oil companies in the Us but i will say that i see in Australia over all the different brands and gas stations that they always have the same prices anyways...

It might vary by 1c but the prices always go up and down on weekly cycles across the board and across all petrol outlets. Even though they are different companies they seem to have lost any competitivness years ago.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Healthcare isnt a luxury!

It's a nessesity!


Not everyone is a fortunate as you, as obviously you can afford healthcare. Also technically you do pay for other peoples healthcare. Your premiums go toward other peoples claims and there's to you if you get sick.

So whether you label it tax or an insurance premium it works the same way.



edit on 10-6-2011 by Havick007 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by Havick007
 


yeah you can speak for oil companies

like i already said would you want 1 oil company calling all the shots and setting the prices?


+4 more 
posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
So i am sitting here thinking to myself of the stupidity of a single payer system for healthcare.


Does that explain the noise? I thought that was the wind howling through an empty cave!


Obama Care aka the care act


The care act is actually something you would probably support - it's an effort to federally deregulate alcohol, and place that regulation in states' hands (HR 1161). You want the Affordable Care Act. Moving on.


is exactly designed to do one thing to make healthcare so expensive and to break the system that the all knowing all powerful all benevolent entity known as the federal government come to the rescue to a problem for which it already created.


Know what the irony is? Corporations doing this is exactly why there needed to be such federal action.


Private Healthcare is the best in this country and no one can deny that fact for we the people altho one could argue our us congressmans healthcare is substantial better than private care.


Private health care is currently hte only health care in this country, barring the VA. Even congresspeople don't get state care - they simply have their private care covered by federal monies. And the VA isn't doing too hot because its funding keeps getting cut

See, here's the trick.
1) Corporations want to buy out hte public sector. They hire lobbyists to convince politicians that hte public system "doesn't work"
2) Those politicians, not wanting to spend money on stuff that doesn't work, vote to cut funding for the public systems
3) The system in question, lacking money to cover its needs, begins to fail
4) Voters like you, having about all the brains of your average lizard, see the failing system and demand that it be thrown away, rather than re-funded.
5) Politicians sell the system to private corporations at a loss (that is, at great profit for the corporations).
6) Quality does not improve, user costs go up, but hey, it's now the only game in town.



private healthcare works for the simply fact that is is profit driven and it makes it money counting on the health of younger people who can goes 10 or 20 years without using it and they finance those who do use it and the biggest reason it works it people pay for it so what i will call it is you pay for it care.


The profit motive is actually exactly WHY privatized health care doesn't work.

See, there's more money to be made in substandard care, medicines that treat symptoms rather than cure diseases, and denying insurance claims, than there is to be had in keeping the customer healthy, addressing the disease when needed, and honoring your insurance claims.

A corporation is beholden to the bottom line, not the well-being of its customers, as I'm sure you understand. When translated into the arena of health care, this is an enormous problem.


medicare is designed for those disabled and older people who do use their care on a daily basis which has strict government guidelines and rules and regulations and is non profit and they also pay for it with a clear difference between private care aka you pay for it care is that there is everyone using it unlike the period of time that most people do not use private healthcare.


Clearly punctuation is a socialist plot that shell not be tolerated.


medicaid is designed for those who cant afford healthcare and receive substantial less quality care than private healthcare and somewhat on par with medicare with exception those receiving it isnt paying for it those other people are.


Yup, substandard care is what happens when a program like this is regularly underfunded.


So what we have here is:

private healthcare
medicare
medicaid

then comes along obama and his wonderful wisdom of obama care making people in the first time in this nations history buy a good or service.

many people who couldnt afford healthcare are now mandated to buy something they couldnt afford to buy in the first place so what will end up happening are two things.


No they're not. I encourage you to read the actual law, rather than simply what someone else tells you about it. There is no mandate to purchase insurance; however, if you do not purchase private insurance, you will be given a few for your automatic coverage under an applicable government insurance program.

While i myself find this provision questionable (it's basically a giveaway to private insurers who are already ripping off their clients) it's not actually what you're saying it is.


people will be footing the bill agian for more than they previously were and the skyrocketing cost of healthcare that was already skyrocketing.


The skyrocketing costs of health care are due to extensive privatization. Remember, profits to be made? And since health care really isn't a competitive market (what, are you going to shop around for hte best emergency room fees?) there's no adequate "check" for the price gouging on the market, nor is there actual incentive for providers to undercut one another; it's a situation of collusion and price fixing.


for those who think its a great thing think agian obama care is designed to crash the system it will kill off competition to the point that something will have to be done "never letting a crisis" go to waste obama and the powers that be will impliment a single payer system.


Good. A system where everyone pays in a small amount to cover those who need it, is a better and more sustainable system than one where those who need it are obligated to spend themselves flat broke.


now for the big oil part

As it stands right now there are only a handful of oil companies competing to bring oil to the market exactly like
only a few companies offering healthcare.

we see the rising cost of both products and services reaching alarming proportions and both are squeezing americans like never before.

so people would you support a single payer big oil system? if not why sould you support a single healthcare option.


Actually yes, if what you're asking is would I support a nationalization of the United States' energy production industries. Absolutely I would support this. For exactly the reason you offered; private companies have a vested interest in reducing supply while increasing prices. They have the ability to bottleneck, and doing so gives them enormous profits; this gives them all the reason in the world to throttle supply against demand.

A nationalized system has no such incentive, as its obligation is not to the bottom line or profit. You may express doubt that such a system is obligated to the needs of the populace, but it's closer to the truth than saying it's obligated to profit.


there is no competition for either market more people competing to bring those goods and services to market would drastically reduce cost to us.


There already is no competition. It's a market defined by collusion and monopolization. When attatched to a profit motive, this is a killer situation.

I suppose an alternative to nationalization would be massive break-ups of the oil comoanies and higher regulations that prevent them from buying each other up again. Thirty companies would probably compete better than four, and that might work out. But curently, I think nationalization would be the better ticket.


the insanity in this country must stop.


I agree, the sooner we stop this insane drive towards privatization of everything under hte sun, the better.


thoughts? and please people its not the greed of big insurance its the greed of big goverment control that has created this situtation big government has squeezed the little guy out of both areas.


You really shouldn't talk about stuff you know nothing about.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I'm sure you know this but i will point out that Nixon played a big part in privatising US healthcare and we all know how much Honesty and Integrity he had....






Managed Care

Paul Starr suggests in his analysis of the American health care system (i.e., The Social Transformation of American Medicine) that Richard Nixon was the first mainstream political leader to take deliberate steps to change American health care from its longstanding not-for-profit business principles into a for-profit model that would be driven by the insurance industry. In 1973, Congress passed the Health Maintenance Organization Act, which encouraged rapid growth of HMOs, the first form of managed care.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


No i agree on that.

As you said then you would have a monopoly.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I hope that you never end up writing policy in this country.

Private insurance is the best?

Really?

I mean, REALLY?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 






not you man the poster who attempt to make a poster the topic of the thread with the personal insults


No Probs.

- Edit: Removed trolling Q -


Trust me if you had grown up in another country, one that had free healthcare you would think differently and also if your one of the 23% of the US population that cant afford healthcare then you would be hoping for something different.



edit on 10-6-2011 by Havick007 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:52 AM
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Explain to me how the corporate handout that is Obamacare is any different than any other profit-driven plan! This props up the insurance and medical industry better than any NeoCon piece of crap ever written!

It's not a single-payer program, which I know would drive costs down because it would increase preventative care and would allow the poor and middle class to get care, before they get really sick; driving costs down by nipping it in the bud before it becomes a real serious issue.

You are spitting out more Republican talking points and half-assed mantra....again, Neo!

When will you learn that the "every man for himself" ideology only works in a MadMax scenario?

Your response may be that it is socialism.....ok, well apply that ideology to other things the government provides, like roads and police and such. Can you afford to build your own road or hire your own police force? You take advantage of a socialist program. Healthcare is no different because it is a basic human need.

ETA: You calling people trolls because they disagree with you? C'mon man, grow some balls and debate the issue, otherwise go join the World Net Daily forum and stroke off with your buddies!

edit on 10-6-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by Havick007
 


not you man the poster who attempt to make a poster the topic of the thread with the personal insults.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


because people like me arent making the policy and hows that working out ?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I would say that it's working out just fine.

I see people who support private insurance companies as sycophantic lap dogs that don't seem to know (or care) that they're being used by the elite.



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