The Destruction of Human History....

reply to post by facelift
I think that when Johnny Cannuck quoted this exact phrase from your post...

Originally posted by facelift
... the Pillaging of Egypt via Dr. Hawass - the criminal....

...he was asking you directly about that.

Humans have had rich and advanced civilization for at least 200,000 years and yet we are told that history only goes back some 6,000-10,000 years. What a load of crap. So we know only maybe 3-5% of our true history, if that. That is the ultimate tragedy.

First of great thread Slayer stars for you (as I don't know how to flag)

I agree with much of what has been said regarding lost knowledge . I am of the belief that maybe there were aliens , but I am beginning to think that the remnants of time is a testament to our species earlier mistakes
however since its ATS here is a alternative viewpoint just for fun

Well the loss of great knowledge sure is a dreadful thing. It was mentioned earlier that much of the ancient artifacts and knowledge is kept away or stored in private collections, but can this not be a redeeming thing later down the line of history? Think about it, the Library of Alexandria, all stored the same place and all of it gone or so it is believed. But in the rare case that some items or texts have been stolen and then held in private collections, sure we won't see it in our time,but the the survivability might improve if knowledge is scattered around rather than it all residing in one place. Granted not to our benefit but for those later, if we leave a inhabitable environment that is.

Also just a thought .. As far as i know the universe is in constant creation and constant destruction (death, rebirth) The animals live their lives in a cycle, they build nothing that lasts, alright termites do on occasion built structures that lasts many years but over all its all designed to wither away, so as to make way for the new life following after the old. Then perhaps the reason we are always fighting is because that some culture finds ancient clues that justify their self-righteous belief as the most advanced in the past therefore they must re conquer the world and rule it again just as it was in the old days. And other cultures will constantly be reminded of their old nemesis as told of in old books and scrolls, so we keep remembering to hate and to advance and restore past glory . A final note maybe its better we forget or lose some of the knowledge, let's say we blow our selves up in a nuclear Armageddon we lose all our mathematical and technological knowledge . It is my opinion that knowledge must be earned as well as learned so if we destroy it then we are not worthy of restoring it as we are incapable of using it, but should someone save the formulas and meanings then we can blow ourselves up again and again "because we have kept the records" What if we should rethink it all from scratch? Perhaps something new would happen or it would take much longer time and thereby maybe we would be more adjusted to the power of such information .

reply to post by SLAYER69


The loss of Aztec history is very unfortunate i just dont think it set us back.

The biggest tragedy these days has to be our government. they can create all kinds of fantastic technolgies to track and kill people. but when it comes to running a car for cheap, or makeing PCs affordable for everyone in the world, or coming up with a sustainable welfare system, we just got our head up our own ass

reply to post by SLAYER69


Very well done as always, Slayer. I am a huge history buff myself and these topics have often been on my mind over the years, in particular, the library at Alexandria. The man I credit with my absolute love affair with history is my 7th history teacher, and there is one thing in particular he said to us all on our first day of class that has stuck with me through all these years. "The word history can be broken into 2 words "His" and "Story" and remember that history is always written and then re-written by the victor". I have always thought this statement to be true, but so very very sad. I can only imagine the wealth of knowledge that has been destroyed over the life of man on this planet due to the greed and fear of others.

I have always thought that conquerers have destroyed as much of a conquered culture as they can so that they will become the future history of that culture. They feel threatened by the existing culture and want to remove that threat.

Perhaps they originally wanted to conquer that culture because they felt threatened or were in awe of their knowledge. It does seem to be a rather common thread in human history. Sad but true.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Kolya

 

they would if they had internet,tv,blogs,24/7 news stations and youtube and above topsecret

and travel shows and expedia "book your travel plans to see the colssus and zeus's statue"

back in the day tourism wasnt a billion dollar industry.

maybe they were great and maybe they werent fact remains we will never know.

...I was being sarcastic, on the basis of you calling them great and not only getting one of the names wrong but claiming all seven were no more

You can thank the catholic church for much of the loss....the Lib of Alex was destroyed by romans before the chuch got its toehold in world power but they come from the same roots....same disdain for common people who can read and write and therefore have no need of pedophile priests to "instruct" them or can form their ow thoughts....JMO

Originally posted by stevooo
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

The loss of Aztec history is very unfortunate i just dont think it set us back.

In my opinion the loss of any history from any culture runs the risk of having set us back. In our arrogance as "modern" humans we toss the respect of ancient knowledge, culture and history right out the window. Can you just imagine what ancient knowledge if not lost but built upon over time may have done for us in modern times? Could it be that if a lot of our ancient knowledge was still available we would now be even more advanced in our current collective human culture? Consider:

- What would the combination of Roman/Greek technology and science coupled with mondern day inventions produce?
- What would the ancient Aztec astrological mapping and study coupled with modern space exploration produce?
- What would the ancient Native American earth science/medicine coupled with modern agriculture practices and scientific research bring about? (agri and meds without modern chemical interference that is)

We are at this very point in time doing the exact same thing as long past historical 'victors' by dismissing ancient cultures as insignificant and believing the ancient's knowlege holds nothing new to us. We are wrong, so very wong and are no better than those 'victors' that have come before us. It is very true that history does repeat itself.

Good thread, Slayer.

The losses previously cited are deeply grievous, but there is a class of knowledge loss that has been under-considered: human-stored knowledge.

The witch burnings weren't simply an attack upon women and" witchcraft". It was an attack upon all sorts of knowledge held by those people that competed with church orthodoxy. Many "witches" were actually herbalists who healed, provided abortions, and knew herbal-based cures for people, animals and crops. Sound familiar? Big Pharma still tries suppressing that knowledge, taking over from Big Church.

The Holocaust of the Americas didn't just destroy books: it eradicated living libraries on a scale unprecedented in human history. Just look at the discoveries coming out in Bolivia and elsewhere in South America: hundreds of previously unthought-of cities, towns and villages connected by a massive road network, indications that most of the Amazon basin was actually terraformed...prior to Contact, the place was wall-to-wall people, after, hundreds stood where millions were, enormous, irreplaceable losses. Knowledge lost then is for the most part irretrievable,

Similar tales follow the Europeans wherever they went: slaughter, disease, and deliberate direct destruction of knowledge bases was the order of the day.

Some think the "Age of Discovery", 1490-1700 or so, a great leap forward for humanity, but I view it as a tragic period of the ignorant destroying everything they found they didn't understand, couldn't turn for a profit, or just wasn't familiar to them. The Age of discovery is a purely Eurocentric take on the period that glorifies a period of global looting, burning and misery visited upon the rest of the world by literally unwashed Christian barbarians from Europe.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Amazing thread, Slayer69.

I really appreciate where your heart is in all of this. It really comes through. Thanks for the very warm read.

I don't think a week or so goes by without my finding some reason to think of the Library at Alexandria and lamenting the great loss.

I often think of Hypatia and what she may have been like. I bet she was one hell of a woman. I like to think that my Girl might be in some ways the way she might have been and I feel lucky.

Have a kill weekend.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I totally agree with you, I would hope that one day that you would write a post that would deal with libraries and govt. and other organizations that have "disappeared" much of our history because it didn't fit their history or was something that was to shattering to humans. I've always believed that the library of Alexandria had much knowledge of the world at that present and the past at that time. From the building of the pyramids, to the lost machines (they had steam power way back then but used it for mechanisms to amaze the few), to the lost history of people and places, to even the lost mathematics that enabled them to know much and do much (like learn precession that is hard to do). And then the destruction of all those codexes with the Aztecs and the Mayans and such. We will never know all the knew about their world and their place in it.

I still say that in the near future, something is going to be dug up or caught on tape that is going to make event he most skeptic pause and say we are survivors of a lost civilization that may have spanned the planet and most of the cultures knew and traded with each other.

reply to post by facelift

Well, as a chump and all, I suppose I had better explain myself a little better. You know how us foreigners can have a limited grasp of the American language, eh?

So, citing your post where you refer to Zahi Hawass, could you please enlighten us on how he has 'pillaged' Egypt, and exactly how he is a criminal?

Sorry to inconvenience you...us chumps are like that.

If I could go back in time with a camera and only go to one place and do one thing.
I would go to the library and try to record everything; it’s unimaginable what information we are missing. I once read where people were going into the library, while it was on fire, trying to save as much as they could. There were reports of people coming out on fire with scrolls in their arms. They knew how important the information was.

Originally posted by guyopitz
Humans have had rich and advanced civilization for at least 200,000 years and yet we are told that history only goes back some 6,000-10,000 years. What a load of crap. So we know only maybe 3-5% of our true history, if that. That is the ultimate tragedy.

WRITTEN history only goes back that far. We have all sorts of evidence from earlier humans... but nothing from an advanced civilization (other than "this bunch discovered pottery first and were the first to domesticate animals.")

October will be Archaeology Month here in the states, and there's a lot of open public digs you can go on to start learning how folks uncover human history. I encourage everyone to get out and get in the dirt and have fun and learn how it's done!

Originally posted by Paul47
If I could go back in time with a camera and only go to one place and do one thing.
I would go to the library and try to record everything; it’s unimaginable what information we are missing. I once read where people were going into the library, while it was on fire, trying to save as much as they could. There were reports of people coming out on fire with scrolls in their arms. They knew how important the information was.

That's a more recent ... legend... from a fiction novel. We don't know what they did or when the library was destroyed. There's actually three legends about it.

And the books in there were mostly copies. I don't see them running in to grab scrolls unless they wanted them for their own personal library -- they could have copied the ones they wanted from libraries in Rome, Greece, and Constantinople (among other places.)

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

still lost to history:

Noah's Ark – biblical ship
The Ark of the Covenant – biblical repository for the Ten Commandments
Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, lost following the invasion by Assyria in 722 BC
The Lost Army of Cambyses - an army of 50,000 soldiers that disappeared in a sandstorm in the Egyptian desert (lost 525? BC)
The lost dialogues of Aristotle (d. 322 BC)
The Holy Grail – biblical chalice
Thors Hammer


even mythological items do have some basis in fact in mankinds history

Noah's Ark is now found, in Turkey, not on, but near Mount Ararat.

The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel are hard to find, but it can be done. For instance, I have a copy of a book by a Dutch woman writing in England, which points out how the Dutch people closely fulfill the identity of the tribe of Zebulun. The tribe of Dan gave rise to the early de Danann of Ireland, and of course, the Danes ("Denmark" simply means "Land of Dan.") Other tribes are easy to identify, others, not so much. Most of Judah, remember, never went back to Palestine, and are "lost" with the rest of Israel.

A lot is lost, but not all.

The major method in control is to deprive one of information and knowledge.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

still lost to history:

Noah's Ark – biblical ship
The Ark of the Covenant – biblical repository for the Ten Commandments
Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, lost following the invasion by Assyria in 722 BC
The Lost Army of Cambyses - an army of 50,000 soldiers that disappeared in a sandstorm in the Egyptian desert (lost 525? BC)
The lost dialogues of Aristotle (d. 322 BC)
The Holy Grail – biblical chalice
Thors Hammer


even mythological items do have some basis in fact in mankinds history

Noah's Ark is now found, in Turkey, not on, but near Mount Ararat.

The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel are hard to find, but it can be done. For instance, I have a copy of a book by a Dutch woman writing in England, which points out how the Dutch people closely fulfill the identity of the tribe of Zebulun. The tribe of Dan gave rise to the early de Danann of Ireland, and of course, the Danes ("Denmark" simply means "Land of Dan.") Other tribes are easy to identify, others, not so much. Most of Judah, remember, never went back to Palestine, and are "lost" with the rest of Israel.

A lot is lost, but not all.

Also, the lost army was indeed recently re-discovered.

This one was caught on tape. The Taliban destroying the Buddas of Bamiyan.