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POLITICS: Florida Voters "Not Guaranteed Perfect Voting" Judge Rules

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posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 09:11 PM
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In a decision sure to add controversy in a state with no end to voting questions a state appellate court judge has ruled against U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler's, D-Fla suit seeking a paper trail in case a recount is required in Novembers election.
 



ap.tbo.com
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - A state appeals court dismissed a lawsuit that sought a paper trail for Florida's new touchscreen voting machines, ruling Friday that voters are not guaranteed "a perfect voting system."

U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler, D-Fla., had argued that the new machines will not allow for an accurate manual recount - such as the one needed during the 2000 presidential election fiasco. He sued Florida Secretary of State Glenda Hood and Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections Theresa LePore to force them to add a paper trail to the computerized machines

State officials say Friday's ruling proves again that Florida's new multimillion-dollar touchscreen voting machines will fix the problems seen with paper ballots.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


As a conservative the last thing I want to see is another election fiasco in Florida, I believe liberals and centrists feel the same way about this subject after the 2000 election.

The ruling assuredly based on some narrow interpretation of Florida law leaves the results of the upcoming election open to partisan bickering. This is bad for the country as a whole.

Related News Links:
gainesvillesun.com
www.wtev.com
www.wftv.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
ELECTION THEFT - the history of, and Bush trying it on again 2004
Vote Scam--2002-Here We Go Again!
www.cbsnews.com...

[edit on 6-8-2004 by Phoenix]




posted on Aug, 7 2004 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
 



ap.tbo.com
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - A state appeals court dismissed a lawsuit that sought a paper trail for Florida's new touchscreen voting machines, ruling Friday that voters are not guaranteed "a perfect voting system."

State officials say Friday's ruling proves again that Florida's new multimillion-dollar touchscreen voting machines will fix the problems seen with paper ballots.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.





Do the state officials who made the above statement have any shame? Do they have a clue what idiots they sound like? Are they aware what the ruling said? Or do they just get away with it cause no one notices.

If the ruling says that voters are not guaranteed "a perfect voting system." how does this translate into the ruling proves again that Florida's new multimillion-dollar touchscreen voting machines will fix the problems seen with paper ballots.

Is the "problem" with paper ballots the fact that they may provide a closer to perfect voting system?

The arrogance and stupidity of such mindsets are the problem here. By the way I have personally witnessed this same arrogance and stupidity expressed in another state where a new electonic counting machine for absentee ballots was proven to not add correctly. When the lawsuit it took to order a manual recount was over and the results did not match the machine, the election officials still had the audacity to say it did not compromise the integrety of the machine itself.

This is a widespread problem folks, it does not only exist in Florida, they are just the ones getting the attention on this due to the debacle 4 years ago.

As an added note, the court's decision is also an insult. In todays society with all the technology available, whether the law guarantees us a perfect voting system or not, it is inexcusable that it can't be provided.



posted on Aug, 7 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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This is very sad indeed and what it proves is that the election in FL either way will be challenge again if the margin of differences is narrow.

My question is, if the next elections become of a narrow margin in more than just a few states we are going to see more challenged elections results sprouting all over were the margins can be challenge.

I hope I am mistaken but these elections can very easily be turn into a circus worst that it was in Florida 2000.



posted on Aug, 7 2004 @ 09:47 AM
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There are a few things that bother me about that:



  1. All of a sudden people got too stupid to operate the machine?
  2. The largest problems were in Hispanic area's.
  3. The problem occured shortly after Janet Reno used armed military to grab a Cuban child out of family members arms.
  4. The voting machines that were used required a person to press the plunger in to punch a hole in the card. (what IF someone just did NOT want to vote for either one?)


Am I the ONLY one who see's a pattern here?

The plunger to vote had to be in a hole for the machine to work - so IF someone did NOT want to vote for either one it could have created a dimple or hanging chad - BECAUSE someone chose NOT TO PUSH IT ALL THE WAY IN!

Logically; neither side would want to admit to this.

Gore would not want to be rejected because of Clinton Admin. stunts.

Bush would not want to admit he was not even a choice as a last option.



posted on Aug, 7 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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why vote, if they ain't gonna at least attempt to get an honest count??
I heard on the radio that the states who's outcome aren't guarenteed (like NY....everyone knows it will go to Kerry)...are the ones who's count "aren't guarenteed to be accurate".
coincidence, or is it that everyone knows already where the other states are going, so they don't care? couldn't tell ya. but since my state is already set anyway, I think I just use my write in power, just to inconvenience some poor person to have to look at the thing!!!

personally, I think the election is set, and the winner already predetermined....and, well, just in case...they're guarenteed, since Kerry will go in the same direction as Bush is for the most part in the issues that are important to them.

what is being suggested, or at least what I heard was that maybe people in these states should vote absentee, to guarentee that their vote is recorded accurately.



posted on Aug, 7 2004 @ 10:27 AM
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What we really have here is essentially an excuse for whichever party loses to complain. If anyone can show me a perfect voting system, I'd love to see it. Humans are imperfect and therefore whatever we produce will be imperfect.

I would suggest that the other 49 states also had problems. It just happened that politics dictated that Florida became the election poster child seeing how Jeb Bush is the Govenor.

Let's not forget all the military absentee votes that were supposedly thrown out because the military postal system did not conform to certain state laws. The fact that the equipment required to conform to different states laws was not provided seems to have been lost on many people.

No matter who would have won the last election, the other major party would have been screaming after the lawyers and the court system was called into play.

[edit on 7-8-2004 by subsailor]



posted on Aug, 7 2004 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar

what is being suggested, or at least what I heard was that maybe people in these states should vote absentee, to guarentee that their vote is recorded accurately.


Geez, I hope people aren't buying into this. The absentee vote is the easiest one to manipulate. They are just pieces of paper. There is no way to guarantee that they all even get counted. Ever heard of a shredder?

The case I was referring to above where the machine couldn't add was counting absentee ballots. In addition, another aspect I didn't mention was that between the time everyone walked through the door (and were told the # of ballots to be counted) and the time they came out of the machine, some were inexplicably missing entirely.

Now, if you are aware of the fact that the pieces of paper to be counted are suppossed to be anonymous (at least in this particular state) you may ask, how could anyone manipulate the loss of ballots to affect the outcome? I will tell you how easy it is at the local level where they are counted. The ballots themselves must be indistinguishable once removed from the envelope. But the envelopes come with return addresses. It is very easy prior to opening the envelopes to identify ballots likely to be cast for a particular party (by their registrations and demographics which are identifiable at that point) and lose a bunch of one or the other.

This is just one example of how such things can be easily manipulated.



posted on Aug, 7 2004 @ 04:54 PM
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Well, I understand thejudge's logic...I mean, if you can't get it completely right you might as well just say "F*** it!" and just not try at all. Right?

God...I can't help but feel like this election has already been decided.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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Like the last guy said, "If you can't do it right, F it." This logic is baaaad. This logic would destroy us all if everyone thought like that. WTF? Well, I might screw it up so why even bother learning how to drive? Why learn how to read. Why learn how to use a condom? WTF? Just because it may not be perfect or it might screw up doesn't mean you should just chuck it out the window.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by spngsambigpants
Well, I understand thejudge's logic...I mean, if you can't get it completely right you might as well just say "F*** it!" and just not try at all. Right?

God...I can't help but feel like this election has already been decided.


Actually, I would think that the judge (although I know that can't be assumed these days) is ruling within the confines of the law. So the outrage must be that the law doesn't guarantee us our right to an accurate vote, and that must be changed, since quite frankly it is unacceptable.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:09 AM
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I wonder.... do we really want our election decided by whichever party has the best computer hackers? Or by whichever party controls the machines at the time?

I wonder... do we really want our servicemember's absentee ballots discounted on a technicality? I swore then, as one of those Florida military absentee military voters, that I would NEVER vote Democrat again after that disgustingly blatant partisan debacle.

I wonder why, after I left the service, it took me FOUR attempts to register to vote in Maryland, the land of budding socialism? My registration kept getting "lost" -- was it because I was registering as a Republican? I finally sought the help of the local Republican party to register. Hooray! I have a voters card now.

I wonder why, even after writing the Florida election board TWICE I still get absentee voting materials? Are they that inefficient? I guess it is time to write them again.

I wonder why so many dead people vote? And why do so many people who are mentally incompetent or on life support vote? And usually in Democrat-controlled districts?

I wonder if the Democrats will buy homeless votes for booze and cigarettes again this election?

I wonder if we will ever have a legitimate vote again.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by kittiesarenice
I wonder.... do we really want our election decided by whichever party has the best computer hackers? Or by whichever party controls the machines at the time?

I wonder why so many dead people vote? And why do so many people who are mentally incompetent or on life support vote? And usually in Democrat-controlled districts?

I wonder if the Democrats will buy homeless votes for booze and cigarettes again this election?

I wonder if we will ever have a legitimate vote again.


Don't kid yourselves folks. If there are abuses (and there are) both parties are equaly guilty. That is why you don't see one party taking the other to task. They both are manipulating the flaws of the system. And for the record, for the most part it is not a national organized effort . It is a problem at the local level that goes unchecked.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 07:45 PM
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Well, don't worry about Florida folks, seems we might all be blown or washed away tomorrow.

Major Bummer!




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