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"Obama Trusted the Wrong Economists"
page: 1share:
Obama listened to the Wall Street pimps and will likely pay for it in the 2012 election.
www.counterpunch.org...
editby]edit on 9-6-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)
Barack Obama figured his reelection was in the bag. All he had to do was throw the progressive wing of his party a bone by pulling a few thousand troops out of Afghanistan, and then wait for the economy to gradually get stronger. What could be easier? 2012 would be a romp. He never thought that his chief economic advisor, Lawrence Summers, might have misjudged the severity of the downturn or that all those pesky "lefty" economists (Stiglitz, Baker, Reich, Thoma, Krugman etc) were right in pushing for more fiscal stimulus. After all, what did they know? Most of them would have supported another W.P.A. if they were given half a chance. Good luck slipping that by the deficit hawks in congress! Besides Wall Street wants "austerity"; so austerity it is. You don't get reelected by rocking the boat.
In a matter of hours, Obama completely reversed his position on fiscal stimulus and began reciting from the Christina Romer songbook. Romer, you may recall, was the president's former economic advisor who Obama threw under the bus because she kept pushing for more fiscal stimulus. In an article in the Washington Post, Romer explained why she "decided to spend more time with her family". Here's an excerpt:
"There was a definite split among the economics team about whether we should push for more fiscal stimulus, or switch our focus to the deficit. A number of us tried to make the case that more action was desperately needed and would be effective. Normally, meetings with the President were very friendly and free-wheeling. He likes to hear both sides of an issue argued passionately. But, about the fourth time we had the same argument over more stimulus in front of him, he had clearly had enough. As luck would have it, the next day, a reporter asked him if he ever lost his temper. He replied, “Yes, I let my economics team have it just yesterday.”...("Christina Romer looks back — and forward", Washington Post)
www.counterpunch.org...
editby]edit on 9-6-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-6-2011 by inforeal because: typo on link
reply to post by inforeal
Unfortunately the article is right. We needed a much larger stimulus coupled with education reform and retraining initiatives to really get us out of the recession.
The problem is that the entire situation and narrative is controlled by those in power. Those in power have money and own the media and can drive the narrative. They won't benefit from strengthening the social safety net and government expenditure to drive growth and demand because that means in the long run their (incredibly low) tax rate would increase marginally to cover the expense. This is what happens when you use Reagonomic idiocy to move wealth up the ladder to the top 1%. They want to keep all of their wealth and will fight tooth and nail to keep the people from being rewarded for their work. They call us lazy, say we are welfare queens, claim they are the hard workers, etc. when it is they who have been hoarding the wealth that we the people created.
The simple truth is that they caused this mess, we saved them, they stole what remaining wealth we had, and now they are driving a narrative that the government needs to punish the poor, old, and weakest members of society because of the crimes they committed against this economy and citizens of just about every country in the world.
Unfortunately the article is right. We needed a much larger stimulus coupled with education reform and retraining initiatives to really get us out of the recession.
The problem is that the entire situation and narrative is controlled by those in power. Those in power have money and own the media and can drive the narrative. They won't benefit from strengthening the social safety net and government expenditure to drive growth and demand because that means in the long run their (incredibly low) tax rate would increase marginally to cover the expense. This is what happens when you use Reagonomic idiocy to move wealth up the ladder to the top 1%. They want to keep all of their wealth and will fight tooth and nail to keep the people from being rewarded for their work. They call us lazy, say we are welfare queens, claim they are the hard workers, etc. when it is they who have been hoarding the wealth that we the people created.
The simple truth is that they caused this mess, we saved them, they stole what remaining wealth we had, and now they are driving a narrative that the government needs to punish the poor, old, and weakest members of society because of the crimes they committed against this economy and citizens of just about every country in the world.
reply to post by Avenginggecko
If there had been more "stimulus" (which has showed absolutely no effect what so ever) and the rest of the financial sector and the World are screaming austerity.. it would seem like going against the river or financial power. We don't have the money to spend. Printing more money would debase the currency further. If you do that the purchasing power of the USD declines, resulting in declined purchasing of goods by consumers. If that happens you end up with another round of severe deflation.
I do agree education reform (like say making it cheaper for starters.. tuition where I live is going up another 9% in September) would have been far more beneficial than spending hundreds of billions repaving roads. THAT'S where he messed up. All that money should have gone to schools and research grants, small business grants, and tax breaks for small local businesses. Not roads.
If there had been more "stimulus" (which has showed absolutely no effect what so ever) and the rest of the financial sector and the World are screaming austerity.. it would seem like going against the river or financial power. We don't have the money to spend. Printing more money would debase the currency further. If you do that the purchasing power of the USD declines, resulting in declined purchasing of goods by consumers. If that happens you end up with another round of severe deflation.
I do agree education reform (like say making it cheaper for starters.. tuition where I live is going up another 9% in September) would have been far more beneficial than spending hundreds of billions repaving roads. THAT'S where he messed up. All that money should have gone to schools and research grants, small business grants, and tax breaks for small local businesses. Not roads.
I thought he was so brilliant that he would know how to choose the right advisors?
reply to post by Avenginggecko
NO MORE STIMULUS! are you insane? we are already in debted to our eyeballs. The Fed is purchasing 80% of all goverment T bills. We cant spend anymore. we are killing ourselfs with debt. There is no recovery after this.
WE are at END GAME
Unfortunately the article is right. We needed a much larger stimulus coupled with education reform and retraining initiatives to really get us out of the recession.
NO MORE STIMULUS! are you insane? we are already in debted to our eyeballs. The Fed is purchasing 80% of all goverment T bills. We cant spend anymore. we are killing ourselfs with debt. There is no recovery after this.
WE are at END GAME
edit on 9-6-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)
One of the things I wonder about. You and I have the ability to jump on the internet and within a day or two read all sides of the economic issues. We
can see where the problems are. We can get a pretty good idea of how to get a handle on the problems. We can see where the problems are with they way
they're currently being handled and what would be more effective. When it's all distilled down, there aren't so many complexities that a normal
person can't grasp them.
So did they take Obama's internet connection away? Is he not allowed to view alternative answers? Is he not allowed to consider anything but the limited arguments of the people in a designated meeting room? Once the options are laid out, why is it that the president in power can never seem to pick the right one? If he's only allowed to pick the "wrong" answer--the one that most benefits the rich and powerful--why even have the economic advisors in the first place? Why even ask the questions? Why even bother when you already know what the masters want you to do?
Seriously--how the **** can they get it so wrong EVERY TIME? It's NOT THAT HARD!!!
Oh. OK. End of rant....
So did they take Obama's internet connection away? Is he not allowed to view alternative answers? Is he not allowed to consider anything but the limited arguments of the people in a designated meeting room? Once the options are laid out, why is it that the president in power can never seem to pick the right one? If he's only allowed to pick the "wrong" answer--the one that most benefits the rich and powerful--why even have the economic advisors in the first place? Why even ask the questions? Why even bother when you already know what the masters want you to do?
Seriously--how the **** can they get it so wrong EVERY TIME? It's NOT THAT HARD!!!
Oh. OK. End of rant....
Excuses excuses excuses.
The economists are the new Bush.
Obama want own up to anything, except taking credit for shooting Bin Laden, err I mean giving the executive order to kill Bin Laden..................................8 hours late.
What a joke.
And yeah, we need more Stimulus like we need a whole in the head. Just go ask Bin Laden how it felt.
The economists are the new Bush.
Obama want own up to anything, except taking credit for shooting Bin Laden, err I mean giving the executive order to kill Bin Laden..................................8 hours late.
What a joke.
And yeah, we need more Stimulus like we need a whole in the head. Just go ask Bin Laden how it felt.
Originally posted by Ex_CT2
One of the things I wonder about. You and I have the ability to jump on the internet and within a day or two read all sides of the economic issues. We can see where the problems are. We can get a pretty good idea of how to get a handle on the problems. We can see where the problems are with they way they're currently being handled and what would be more effective. When it's all distilled down, there aren't so many complexities that a normal person can't grasp them.
So did they take Obama's internet connection away? Is he not allowed to view alternative answers? Is he not allowed to consider anything but the limited arguments of the people in a designated meeting room? Once the options are laid out, why is it that the president in power can never seem to pick the right one? If he's only allowed to pick the "wrong" answer--the one that most benefits the rich and powerful--why even have the economic advisors in the first place? Why even ask the questions? Why even bother when you already know what the masters want you to do?
Seriously--how the **** can they get it so wrong EVERY TIME? It's NOT THAT HARD!!!
Oh. OK. End of rant....
With everything you say, I always felt and feel "They", whoever that is, knows what they are doing and planning it or they know whats going on and know the S is about to hit the fan and are trying there best to prolong it until they get out of office.
Or there really dumb. I would not make it past them on that ether
Originally posted by macman
Excuses excuses excuses.
The economists are the new Bush.
Obama want own up to anything, except taking credit for shooting Bin Laden, err I mean giving the executive order to kill Bin Laden..................................8 hours late.
What a joke.
And yeah, we need more Stimulus like we need a whole in the head. Just go ask Bin Laden how it felt.
you mean kill bin ladens corps again right.
Originally posted by camaro68ss
Originally posted by macman
Excuses excuses excuses.
The economists are the new Bush.
Obama want own up to anything, except taking credit for shooting Bin Laden, err I mean giving the executive order to kill Bin Laden..................................8 hours late.
What a joke.
And yeah, we need more Stimulus like we need a whole in the head. Just go ask Bin Laden how it felt.
you mean kill bin ladens corps again right.
Yeah yeah yeah. Different thread though.
the only thing thats going to fix this country is going back to the gold standard after hyperinflating the debt away. Thats the only awnser i
see
edit on 9-6-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)
Partial rant here...
IMO.. there is NO way Obama or his so-called advisers are this stupid. Ignorant maybe.. stupid.. no way in hell. They are privy to more info than we citizens will ever have and know exactly whats up. Theyre lying about all of this mess as it is, Im firmly convinced now. I absolutely was not always "awake" or whatever the current buzzword is and even to me its quite clear. I just cant hardly believe that my kid of 17 ( who actually got her right and left confused today when I said to hand me the stack of papers on her right.... ugh) can do better accounting than my own govt. IE: keep her checking account perfectly balanced, maintain a savings account.. and refuses to ever use credit cards!
This is why I feel this whole nonsense economic thing is a controlled demolition. Call me crazy, but its the only thing left to consider. Obama is NO fool. I cant stand the guy any more than I could stand Bush... and Ive soundly denounced Reagan during his presidency and to the reagan worshipers here on ATS. These people are NOT stupid. Obama is NOT an idiot.. he is well educated, and he knows exactly what he is doing.. I still havent figured out if he is actually a "true believer" in this demolition or he is simply caught up in it all. EIther way, we're all screwed and if he had any integrity, he'd expose it and become a hero ( even to us that cant stand the guy!) .
Im not young and Ive worked since I was 18 yrs old ( officially anyway) .. along with going to college and paying off my own education related loans. I saved, I bought my own home, I went on vacations and etc BEFORE I was 25 on my own hard earned dime. When starting my adulthood things were ABSOLUTELY different. Even in the 80's the "American Dream" was still sort of there, but had begun slipping. Not now. Not in the average Americans futures. The American dream has now turned into being able to pay your bills/eat and that is just not success to me. Thank God my husband and I are still hanging in there... but I see the demolition all around me.. and its coming for me too. I see it with dwindling amounts "left over" after my bills and obligations are met with each paycheck. My savings are not growing as they once did.. there simply isnt enough to cover inflation not matching the income and lack of true cost of living raises. My portfolio is sad and my net worth embarrassing now compared to what it was a decade or 2 ago. Forget my property value.. its dropped by almost 50K yet my personal property tax went up 46%!
The way things are now.. there is no way the average graduate starting out their own adult life can secure a stable job, much less pay for their own student loans without grants or partials.. and keep their heads above water. Forget succeeding. Its not common anymore as it once was. No one can invest in their communities anymore as we once did. Charitable contributions are down.. even our local food pantries are BARE. Our idiot mayor shut down our homeless shelter, made panhandling legal in the city limits, and we have homeless living in our family parks and foreclosed on homes... squatting. Now I see degree holders working min wage... starting pay for a degree holder where my close friend works in HR ... is 18K a year?! WTH! The young ones take it.. and the older folks who are making more due to yrs in the positions are let go. They cant get hired elsewhere. Its no abstract thing I see on the news.. I KNOW these people. They are my friends, I care for them, and I see what is happening to folks in real life daily given my current profession. If this isnt touching you yet in some way.. it will.
Ive seen ATSers on here claiming that the economy isnt bad and rolling down the hill, property values and home values arent plummeting, and even that there is economic recovery! I sometimes wonder what pink bubble they live in or if they ever get out and work within their community. Obama didnt trust the wrong advisors... Obama is part of a corrupt destructive government that is destroying our economy and even before Obama .. this govt of ours has been working on it for decades. We dont need stimulus for Gods sake.. we need to chuck out every incumbent and "czar" in our govt... by any means necessary and learn a few lessons for our kids and grandkids futures.
IMO.. there is NO way Obama or his so-called advisers are this stupid. Ignorant maybe.. stupid.. no way in hell. They are privy to more info than we citizens will ever have and know exactly whats up. Theyre lying about all of this mess as it is, Im firmly convinced now. I absolutely was not always "awake" or whatever the current buzzword is and even to me its quite clear. I just cant hardly believe that my kid of 17 ( who actually got her right and left confused today when I said to hand me the stack of papers on her right.... ugh) can do better accounting than my own govt. IE: keep her checking account perfectly balanced, maintain a savings account.. and refuses to ever use credit cards!
This is why I feel this whole nonsense economic thing is a controlled demolition. Call me crazy, but its the only thing left to consider. Obama is NO fool. I cant stand the guy any more than I could stand Bush... and Ive soundly denounced Reagan during his presidency and to the reagan worshipers here on ATS. These people are NOT stupid. Obama is NOT an idiot.. he is well educated, and he knows exactly what he is doing.. I still havent figured out if he is actually a "true believer" in this demolition or he is simply caught up in it all. EIther way, we're all screwed and if he had any integrity, he'd expose it and become a hero ( even to us that cant stand the guy!) .
Im not young and Ive worked since I was 18 yrs old ( officially anyway) .. along with going to college and paying off my own education related loans. I saved, I bought my own home, I went on vacations and etc BEFORE I was 25 on my own hard earned dime. When starting my adulthood things were ABSOLUTELY different. Even in the 80's the "American Dream" was still sort of there, but had begun slipping. Not now. Not in the average Americans futures. The American dream has now turned into being able to pay your bills/eat and that is just not success to me. Thank God my husband and I are still hanging in there... but I see the demolition all around me.. and its coming for me too. I see it with dwindling amounts "left over" after my bills and obligations are met with each paycheck. My savings are not growing as they once did.. there simply isnt enough to cover inflation not matching the income and lack of true cost of living raises. My portfolio is sad and my net worth embarrassing now compared to what it was a decade or 2 ago. Forget my property value.. its dropped by almost 50K yet my personal property tax went up 46%!
The way things are now.. there is no way the average graduate starting out their own adult life can secure a stable job, much less pay for their own student loans without grants or partials.. and keep their heads above water. Forget succeeding. Its not common anymore as it once was. No one can invest in their communities anymore as we once did. Charitable contributions are down.. even our local food pantries are BARE. Our idiot mayor shut down our homeless shelter, made panhandling legal in the city limits, and we have homeless living in our family parks and foreclosed on homes... squatting. Now I see degree holders working min wage... starting pay for a degree holder where my close friend works in HR ... is 18K a year?! WTH! The young ones take it.. and the older folks who are making more due to yrs in the positions are let go. They cant get hired elsewhere. Its no abstract thing I see on the news.. I KNOW these people. They are my friends, I care for them, and I see what is happening to folks in real life daily given my current profession. If this isnt touching you yet in some way.. it will.
Ive seen ATSers on here claiming that the economy isnt bad and rolling down the hill, property values and home values arent plummeting, and even that there is economic recovery! I sometimes wonder what pink bubble they live in or if they ever get out and work within their community. Obama didnt trust the wrong advisors... Obama is part of a corrupt destructive government that is destroying our economy and even before Obama .. this govt of ours has been working on it for decades. We dont need stimulus for Gods sake.. we need to chuck out every incumbent and "czar" in our govt... by any means necessary and learn a few lessons for our kids and grandkids futures.
The hilariously ironic thing is that if the institutions that should have failed were allowed to back in 2008-09 we might at this point or sometime
next year be seeing some actual improvement. Now, I think they are going to try something stimulus/spending/printing wise to keep the wheels on until
at least Nov 2012. I suspect they will be just as successful as they were in '08.
All this nonsense about austerity and “we are broke” IS A LIE! A great deception, driven by the globalists who in turn have incited the
conservative republican tea party flunkies to drive this lie about “deficits” in order to further ruin the lower and middle classes in America.
This deficit is driven by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the bailout of the rich in 2008, and not social security or Medicare, or any other of the social safety nets.
ATTACK AND DESTROY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY OF LOVE THE RICH AND HATE THE POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS, AND YOU WILL BE HELPING YOURSELF TO SURVIVE!
This deficit is driven by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the bailout of the rich in 2008, and not social security or Medicare, or any other of the social safety nets.
ATTACK AND DESTROY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY OF LOVE THE RICH AND HATE THE POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS, AND YOU WILL BE HELPING YOURSELF TO SURVIVE!
Originally posted by inforeal
All this nonsense about austerity and “we are broke” IS A LIE! A great deception, driven by the globalists who in turn have incited the conservative republican tea party flunkies to drive this lie about “deficits” in order to further ruin the lower and middle classes in America.
This deficit is driven by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the bailout of the rich in 2008, and not social security or Medicare, or any other of the social safety nets.
ATTACK AND DESTROY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY OF LOVE THE RICH AND HATE THE POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS, AND YOU WILL BE HELPING YOURSELF TO SURVIVE!
You STILL think the repubs are any worse than the dems? Not hardly.. theyre all criminal. There is no difference between the 2 parties for us citizens or how they will screw us for their pet party beliefs/goals.. they *all* need to go. Having a 2 party system for all intents and purposes is insane.. why do so many of you buy into this nonsense? You are the only one deciding to choose oen of 2 evils.. there is a 3rd choice.. NONE OF THE ABOVE.
edit on 9-6-2011 by Advantage because: fixed 2 words!
You have to attack what is behind the elite plots by destroying their puppets. Right now they are throwing the republican philosophy of love the rich
and hate the poor and middle class at us, to literally starve us to death.
Use your head and realize how to defend yourself
Use your head and realize how to defend yourself
reply to post by Advantage
Who balanced the budget last? BILL CLINTON A DEMOCRAT! Use your head and look at reality; not your prejudices
Who balanced the budget last? BILL CLINTON A DEMOCRAT! Use your head and look at reality; not your prejudices
edit on 9-6-2011 by inforeal
because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by inforeal
All this nonsense about austerity and “we are broke” IS A LIE! A great deception, driven by the globalists who in turn have incited the conservative republican tea party flunkies to drive this lie about “deficits” in order to further ruin the lower and middle classes in America.
This deficit is driven by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the bailout of the rich in 2008, and not social security or Medicare, or any other of the social safety nets.
ATTACK AND DESTROY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY OF LOVE THE RICH AND HATE THE POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS, AND YOU WILL BE HELPING YOURSELF TO SURVIVE!
Wow buddy, you have alot to learn. First off the iraq and afghanistan war TOTAL for 10 years is $1 trillion. Now Obama is spending 1.6 trillion a year!
This is not even about partys right now. we are way past that. Both partys need to be throw out.
And for the Tea Party, Taxed Enough Already party was a great party until the republicans highjacked it.
All and all the spending needs to be stopped. Buts already to late. WE are at END GAME
Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by Advantage
Who balanced the budget last? BILL CLINTON A DEMOCRAT! Use your head and look at reality; not your prejudicesedit on 9-6-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)
yes he did in the last two years but who was running the house at the time. Only the house can pass budgets? You need to look at the big picture. Both partys suck