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Court: Dad can paste daughter's face on porn photo

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posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


I'm sorry, but if you were able to convince people at 13 that you were 25, then your peers were not very smart.

I wasn't convincing "peers" - I was getting served in bars



I believe you. My own Mother did the same thing. Mind, most knew she was flubbing a bit they just didn't realize by how much.

And the problem is still the adults - because what the hell is a thirteen year old doing in the bar? The problem is still caused by adults, and the problem inside the child/young teen is complicated by very inappropriate environmental factors.

A man who finds out that you are a child, backs off. If they find you at the bar, they tell the owners.

What they don't do is decide to take a child for a ride.
edit on 2011/6/9 by Aeons because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 

If reasoning like an adult means that I have to write off everything a teenager says because they haven't fully developed... I think I'd prefer to stay in touch with my adolesence.

While I agree that I'm an idiot
there's more than enough out there for me to learn - I do not think my kids shouldn't have a voice in their own lives and how they live them.

Some might even look at our relationship and think I'm too lenient - but they've never made a "wrong" choice - they don't drink, they don't smoke (and I'm a smoker, not a drinker) - they don't cut classes - they don't stay out all hours of the night - they don't talk back to me when I ask them to do something.... I don't see what the problem is. They earned my trust, and have yet to betray it.

At the risk of being off topic (assuming this entire post isn't...), I also believe Vili had every right to marry Mary Kay



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
And "forever" argued that he hadnt seen the girl for 12 years, and so he really hadnt bonded well, which IS perhaps some defense of the thought popping unbidden into his head.

Well, see, that is a semi-defense, but the girl is 13
I frankly see it as perhaps a bit less defendable...see, someone you are with day in/out, watch grow into a budding beauty over time with a personality growing up can cause some strange feelings.
Seeing some random 13 year old (that you know is 13) would show less of a bond turning, and more of a choice against social norms.
so where he may see it as being more defendable for his reasonings, I see it as less..however, this is just perspective.




But he KNOWS it is his daughter, and there is no excuse for him taking it further and creating porn using her face.

On principle I agree with you. but I still accept that this is not a legal issue, nor should it be.
I have a niece as I mentioned. she is now 21 years of age. she is a model/hooters waitress and all around "pretty girl".
I admit, she is really attractive..always has been, however, within me, I can't even look at her in one of her sexy photos without feeling a bit weirded out by it.
This is a measure put in through society programming...for me, the concept is simply "gross", even though I also know full well she is what men generally desire...but the fact of relation to me hits that barrier.
Still, if say, my brother wants to look at her pictures longer than normal, well, thats for him to decide to do. I personally would find his behavior disgusting, but not alien, nor something that should get police involved in over.


You may not have control over what your mind finds sexually attractive, but is anyone here going to argue you have no control over your actions?

Agreed with that. control is key..controlling yourself not to act out.
the gray is, what is an extension of your minds fantasy verses a action that creates victimization...to me, the state demanding to see a actual victim physically is the key.
The guy needs help no doubt..he is nurturing a very unhealthy set of principles that will endanger someone down the road (not to mention himself)..but technically he did nothing wrong, and morally, what he is missing is simple control and principles...as you said, the thoughts he has may be normal, or not controlled, but the actions he chooses is. the path he is choosing is showing signs of poor control.


He wasnt just "fantasizing" about her. He took the physical actions of getting her intoxicated so he could get photos of her he intended to use to masturbate to. He moved his "fantasy" into "reality" and harmed the child in doing so.

Well, you can take photos of someone doing anything and photoshop them into very different situations...however, this point I fully agree with
he was grooming her, and no doubt had the desire to groom more as time went on. had this been allowed to continue, no doubt he would have done something that was illegal on those grounds...for now, he has to deal with the drugs and other grooming methods he used as the crime itself and get punished approprately.
and for that, yes...he deserves the book thrown at him. hell, even if he wasn't trying to do anything sexual in nature, you never give kids drugs or the like...that is the monster and that is the illegal action he should and will get slammed over.


And for the argument that 10 is pre-pubescent, I suggest you rethink a little. Not everyone enters sexual maturity at the same age physically, and a 13 girl can still look very much like a child. Im not making any comment on how this girl looked, I dont know, but its fallacious to look at the age and assume she was sexually developed at that age. Not all are.
edit on 9-6-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)


Right, well, I was generalizing overall. sure, some are fully developed by 11, and some have some genetic issues that make them not fully develop until in their 20s..but generally speaking 13 is post

This specific case I wasn't trying to remark on...and will be honest, didn't even read the article, I was commenting simply on the general theme of the thread of fantasy verses crime and psychological "norms" of society. so, when I say things like 13 is post, what I mean is not this specific girl, but our species as a whole


___
off topic:
I wonder...if a woman is 22 years old, but had a odd genetic abnormality keeping her body forever pre-pubescent looking, right down to the sound of her voice and all...would anyone she ever dates be considered a pedophile?

perhaps a different thread for that..just wondering...would be a interesting discussion to get into.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Forevever
 


And I think Mary Kay should be locked up for being the predator she is. She continues to profilt from it too. She's disgusting.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by OptimusSubprime
 


Now, now. I dont think thats fair at all. Im quite sure that religion has very little to do with whether or not someone finds children, including their own children, sexually exciting.

Im not sure what the actual variable is, but I really, really doubt its religion vs atheism.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Partygirl
 

It's a sick story indeed. I guess legally speaking he's off the hook...........

I hope karma will catch up with this guy one day.

Peace

PS: This story was on dutch news today Parents offer child sex in exchange for loan, not a lot of gray area in this story. Let's just say it's a sick, sick world.....



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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Everyone seems to be debating the child porn side of this..

Quite frankly I think it would be just as distasteful ,and most likely not illegal as well ,if the father had posted a pic of his daughter at 20 years old, on a nude body to fantasize to. Whether he had been raising her or not, has nothing to do with it.

If some father who had abandoned his child at 1 year old, but later found found pictures of her as an adult , and was posting the head onto nude forms to arouse himself with , I would think there is something psychologically wrong with him.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


I'm sorry, but if you were able to convince people at 13 that you were 25, then your peers were not very smart.

I wasn't convincing "peers" - I was getting served in bars



I believe you. My own Mother did the same thing. Mind, most knew she was flubbing a bit they just didn't realize by how much.

And the problem is still the adults - because what the hell is a thirteen year old doing in the bar? The problem is still caused by adults, and the problem inside the child/young teen is complicated by very inappropriate environmental factors.

A man who finds out that you are a child, backs off. If they find you at the bar, they tell the owners.

What they don't do is decide to take a child for a ride.
edit on 2011/6/9 by Aeons because: (no reason given)


In my case, yeah the problem could be blamed on an adult - it was her idea to send me to the bar to pick her up a six pack - but I knew what I was doing too. I was the one dressing up like I was an adult, because I was hoping to be treated like one. I was also the one seeking out adult company who was obviously not the best influence.

I can't blame HER for any of that - I just can't - I don't care what society beats into me - I made the choices - no one had to talk me into it.

I was also smart enough to know if I got caught I could blame the adults around me - what does that tell you?

The funny thing is, I would've been blaming the wrong adults. I should be blaming the ones who were SUPPOSED TO BE teaching me and keeping an eye on me - not the ones who were helping me along in my self destruction.

So then I have to ask, where the hell was this girls mother?



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Forevever
 


It was obviously her mom who helped her get out of the situation..




posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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So the dad pastes his daughters face onto pornos... Jeebus do you think there might be a chance he is sexually abusing or considering sexually abusing his daughter? CPS out to at least check into this.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 


It is. The fact that in some countries that is looked upon as "bad" is a good thing, however. In parts of Asia, selling your child for sex is so common no one thinks enough of it for the parents to be investigated at all.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


If it were just ANY 14 year old girl OR boy....it would still be wrong for a 40 year old man (or woman) to ask them to pose naked for them etc etc.....the fact that they are children makes it wrong. I will also go as far to say that if the thoughts are there, it's not much of a leap to turn it into action....if the situation presented itself. As for you referring to me as "your highness"...I never said I am better than anyone or that everyone should think as I do. I am just stating my opinon. I have no desire to start attacking anyone or for anyone to attack me. I am just sick of these perverts (child molesters) who make stupid excuses for why they do what they do. There is NO excuse....I'm not afraid to say if someone was creating pornographic pictures of my child, there would be one less pedophile in the world....I would see to that myself.
edit on 6/9/2011 by StealthyKat because: sp



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by freakjive

Originally posted by SaturnFX
incidently, before you start to question...hell yeah I fantasized about underage girls...


This is why it's perceived that you're defending the guy. You share his same sick mindset.

Yes, admitting my desire to sleep with some starlet of 17 years whom is dressed in nothing jumping around on TV is unique to me and me alone. I am the most disturbed person you will ever meet.
mhmm
here is the actual truth to it however:
I accept that there are underage and attractive girls out there..I therefore will be armed against it for all times to protect my arse and carefully ID...and have principles that override my biological desires.
I am less dangerous than someone whom buries their head in the sand pretending moral authority then suddenly doing something because they never prepared for a instance when some poison ivy senario happens.
for me, there is simply a legal guideline. age of consent = bible. no "she acted older", or anything like that...I am prepared.






I am defending fantasys as a concept in general because should even the most disgusting of fantasys become illegal, it will rapidly become a monster and puritanical witch hunting for naughty thoughts and representations.


I see the fantasy as thinking the disgusting thoughts. I see the crime in creating photos that allow him to interact with this fantasy. We have enough evidence to say this will likely progress to more heinous crimes. In fact, there is evidence in this case of just that. He already took the next progressive step. At the least, this should have been classified as Child Endangerment.

Representations of crime is not crime
I love me my video games...lots of the representations are of murder and other such crimes. Australia is now in full force for thought police and making even representations of crime illegal...
the slippery slope will continue on forever once you allow even the most "disgusting" of things to become illegal.
Do some research on rampant censorship in the name of the children.
its a bs argument and no matter how much -people like you- try to humiliate anyone standing up for the rights, I will simply not back down. its bull, its feeding into the desire for government to cover you with protective laws, and it is against the very foundation of freedom.

You can twist absolutely anything into a moral arguement...and things always are twisted into moral arguements, be it this (criminal representations) or guns, taxes, cursing, etc...I say to hell with all the arguements. show me a victim or stfu. go live in a country where there actually is moral police and find your personal happiness, otherwise, just be a effing parent or concerned neighbor and stop asking for the state and country to be a parent for you




as far as incest..well, no, that doesn't float my boat either really (however, I do have a cousin in canada..she is a bit older, but damn she is cute)...still, no..not my overall fantasy.


The attempt at sarcasm was weak and furthers my thinking that you have a sick mind.

Your continous words like "sick mind" make me think you are actually hiding something...especially when you feel the need to belittle someone personally for being on a different philosophical argument than you.


fling insults at each other, or discuss the philosophical merits of this subject. I can actually discuss the argument without resorting to personally attacking someone, because I feel I have the actual intellectual point here...however, the typical response is, if you can't "win" an argument through valid counterpoints, then you can always just stoop to the level of personal insults.

I guess you feel like your not making as many valid points intellectually, so you are trying to drag it into the mud.





I defend fantasy overall and more importantly, I am against thought police.


Again, I believe this goes beyond thought. There was action. He created images of his daughter in lewd poses.

It is unhealthy...I agree with you here. however, it is just a physical representation.
What he did do wrong was the grooming aspect...the drugs, etc...that is clearly illegal along with morally objectionable...and he will pay dearly for that.
the picture alterations are simply sort of disturbing, however so is putting a bullet through your ex-wifes picture's head...it feeds a very dark place, but is ultimately not a crime.




This guy is wondering what his daughter will be like as a sexually active adult..thats actually what is going on here...its just a bunch of gray, and the only black and white issue so far is the legal status of this...which its not illegal...everything else is moral wordplay and philosophcal spin.


You honestly believe that's what's going through this guys head? I'm concerned that you seem to connect so much with the suspect and seem to also be in tune with what he's thinking.

edit on 6/9/2011 by freakjive because: (no reason given)

well, ok, that last part was the actual sarcasm part...just saying, things can be spun around and around depending on what your trying to show.
As far as in tune with his thinking...well, I am in tune with his thinking, a rapists thinking, a virgins thinking, and every other possible mindset out there.
I am genuinely interested in peoples behavior..sort of a hobby of mine, but being in tune, or understanding, is not condoning. I can understand how a extravagent homosexual feels and is motivated by, however, I also find that mindset not acceptable as one I take on.

To say you don't understand the thinking, motivation, or anything else about someone makes you actually less in a position to judge him...how can you judge what you do not understand?
Its important for every parent to know the mind of a child molestor, its important for every soldier to know how the enemy thinks, and I suggest its important for every human to know the anti-social mindsets...identification allows for defense...ignorance only leads to victimization.

I make no apologies for using wisdom and perspective.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by Forevever
 


It was obviously her mom who helped her get out of the situation..



I also questioned that point earlier too - how did mom find out? did she find a picture this girl did willingly and the girl started crying?

You know at 13 I was smart enough to admit to doing something wrong in the same sentence as denying something else - people just automatically assume you're telling a full truth when you include something detrimental to yourself

I'm really playing a lot of devils advocate here but I don't understand why no one is even considering this girls part in the whole thing when she admittedly wanted the drugs. Her part wouldnt excuse his part, but is she getting help? is she going to do this to another man? I KNOW serial teenagers who go after older men - and at least one is in jail for it - she needs help - she's not getting it - men beware!!!!!!

And again I ask if this guy was so demented, why did he paste the picture on a fully mature woman? his daughter you say? NOT TO HIM - he didn't know her for nearly her entire life



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
Everyone seems to be debating the child porn side of this..

Quite frankly I think it would be just as distasteful ,and most likely not illegal as well ,if the father had posted a pic of his daughter at 20 years old, on a nude body to fantasize to. Whether he had been raising her or not, has nothing to do with it.
.


Incest is illegal in many states (sex offender list, even if you are both adults...hell, you can be elderly and get arrested for concensual incest).

You have a point..yes, and it may lead to a very interesting dilemma for some here.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


If you read the article it went on to say he asked his 13 year old to pose and strip down to her underwearI. He also gave her drugs. I think it probably went further than that. She just might have been high and not remembered it. The mother encouraged the girl to have a relationship with her father after being estranged 12 years. I think he saw it as an opportunity for an easy victim. He was obviously grooming her for something else. Why else would any parent in their right mind give drugs to a teenager?

He's sick and I hope the time he spent in prison taught him a lesson on what it feels like to be victimized. Maybe he'll remember the sore bottom associated with bad behavior and not do anything more.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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If art depiction of child sexuality was made illegal, then a lot of people in Hollywood would have to go to jail. It is a very fine line.

Considering how some children dress and act, and that sexual desire doesn't really care about age, although there is usually a secondary negative reaction many of us feel, it only makes sense that this is dealt with through art. There should be some way to release natural desires that are not healthy, to avoid real harm from occurring.

Children need some experience with sexuality if they are ever going to mature, but I think that should be with other children, not with adults. Still, there is the fact that children are attracted to adults, and adults to children. It seems to me that the people who repress their sexuality the most, are the ones most likely to go off the deep end. Catholic priests come to mind.

So the guy had these dirty feelings about his daughter, what should he do? Putting her face on porno pics is disturbing, but maybe therapeutic. Is it any different than what Hollywood does? I would hate to be in that position. There should be a place where someone with this problem can get help before something bad happens.

If we was trying to get her intoxicated to take pictures of her, that is going too far. That should be a crime.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by operation mindcrime
 


It is. The fact that in some countries that is looked upon as "bad" is a good thing, however. In parts of Asia, selling your child for sex is so common no one thinks enough of it for the parents to be investigated at all.



So what does that have to do with it? yes..lots of stuff happens in other countries , that is really atrocious,and selling your child is just one of them.

You seem to be saying,that we are over reacting because , this plus even worse, is just common place in other countries??

What next?? we're over reacting to a child being raped here, because in other countries he or she would not only be raped once, but perhaps 3 times a day for years on end , and nothing would be done about it?

I don't get your logic at all..so correct me if I am not quite getting the gist of what you're saying.

I'm just saying the excuse that worse happens elsewhere, and is common place, is not a valid reason to not get seriously upset by twisted and deviant mindsets.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





Children need some experience with sexuality if they are ever going to mature, but I think that should be with other children, not with adults. Still, there is the fact that children are attracted to adults, and adults to children. It seems to me that the people who repress their sexuality the most, are the ones most likely to go off the deep end. Catholic priests come to mind.


Its not called repressing your sexuality..its called having common sense ,and using self discipline..much like in the case of your best friends spouse coming on to you. You know its wrong (unless of course you practice swinging sex with them) , and you use common sense and self discipline to stop yourself from doing something very hurtful to someone you care about.

Many priests did not repress their sexuality, therefore molested children. Many were abused by clergy as children , became sexually deviant because of the abuse, and chose to hide in the church,and continue,instead of reaching out and getting therapy. Also back in the day, when homosexuality was not accepted , many homosexual men sought refuge in the church, because they would not be questioned as to why they are single,and are constantly in the company of men. The idea that priests have repressed their sexuality ,and that is why they go off the deep end, is a very untrue and misleading statement.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
What next?? we're over reacting to a child being raped here, because in other countries he or she would not only be raped once, but perhaps 3 times a day for years on end , and nothing would be done about it?


Here I agree with you.
do not judge your set of principles on how worse other countries are...you must decide where you want your country to be regardless of how other countries deal with these things.

good reply.

however, I think your overall stance is flawed through emotions..but here you are spot on.





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