It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I am a Theist.

page: 8
6
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
What one atheists does is his OWN doing.

That's EXACTLY my point! They want individual responsibility for themselves but make every Christian responsible for all Christians. It's a double standard.


(Maybe that's why we react the way we do when christians mess up, because they supposedly have this god helping them but act no better than anyone else)

And yet atheists play the part of God over us by judging us by their own standards, telling us what they insist the Bible says, and then having the gall to flame us for proselytizing! Who are atheists that they should tell other people what their own beliefs should be or how to live them out? Who do they think they are? Who says "Christians mess up"? We will take care of our own internal issues; it is not for atheists to dictate our doctrines to us. We are human beings doing the best we can, and INDIVIDUALS who cannot be responsible for the whole group. This once again is that double standard where atheists reserve the right to decide what we believe and then flame us for not acting as atheists decree we should.



If god's message is clear, why are there thousands of christian denominations?

We are fallible humans and I already explained this. Those "thousands" of denominations... surely you would not make such a claim without citing a source, would you? Or make them all differing on SALVATION? Or are the vast majority of difference a matter of how to worship, legitimate differences of opinion, and other such secondary teachings? It seems to me you want to just lump us all together while making atheism exempt from such blanket statements.

Also, as such an authority on all Christianity, you must be familiar with what Jesus and the apostles said would happen, are you not? Something about wolves in sheep's clothing scattering the flock and all that?

Christians are human, got that?




posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:19 PM
link   
reply to post by SaberTruth
 


You wrote:

["When atheists claim they are good citizens but pull pranks like sneaking in the back door of the Creation Museum and forcing an impromptu "interview" (Bill Maher, as I recall), or claim to be less harmful to humanity than religions but murder millions (famous atheist despots of the world),....."]

You are creating a false category, useless in this context.

Quote continued: ["......... or claim to be rational yet obsessively make thread after thread about Christianity (several examples of ATS members), they live inconsistently with atheism."]

Being in opposition to invasive missionary elitism is not an obsession. It's a pro-democratic stance.

["While some atheists are content to simply not believe in gods, many are aggressively targeting religious people (esp. Christians) and say such people are dangerous and must be eliminated... thus imposing their own preferred "morality" on others. I could go on."]

SOME christians are targeted as being 'dangerous'. That such christains are to be 'eliminated' is your fabrication.

The 'preferred morality' from the quote is mostly based on the principles of egalitarian, liberal, secular democracy, which you ofcourse can challenge.

Quote: ["But the point I was making is that atheists expect to act or speak however they want and never be held to account, while demanding perfection from all Christians."]

In egalitarian, liberal, secular democracy as well as on a liberal forum, the rules are the same for everybody. This is a persecution gambit, you're presenting.

Quote: ["He did. But people rebelled against him, yet he sent prophets to them. Eventually he set apart a whole nation to serve as his witnesses, but they rebelled too."]

That's the story on YOUR premises. Other premises can be, that Jahveh is a fantasy created for social engineering, or that he possibly IS 'real', most likely being a demon, in which case a rebellion is justified.

Quote: ["Then he sent his own Son, whom they killed. (This is exactly what Jesus meant by a parable he told about the owner of a vineyard.) Yet even after that Son rose from the dead, and just as Jesus said in the account of the rich man and Lazarus, people won't listen even then.

God's message has been clearly communicated as to how people can be reconciled to him."]

A sermon to justify your version of the story.

Quote: [" People, being human, will always argue about the details, but the message of creation, fall, and redemption is very simple."]

And for a non-believer rather absurd.

Quote: ["You can't demand that God spoonfeed us or micromanage us and operate us like puppets."]

Very few hope to be zombified to get 'evidence'. Some verifiable validation is what's demanded.

Quote: [" He has more purposes for us in this life than simply obedience; there is also the development of character and learning to cooperate with each other, and to develop the character to make allowances for disagreement."]

The christianities have used two thousand years to demontrate their inability to get along. I seek my inspiration elsewhere.

Quote: ["How we handle that says much more about our character than just checking off a list of commands."]

The buddhists seem to be doing fine in their way.

Quote: ["As the Bible itself says, "In these last days he has spoken to us in his Son". Jesus is the pinnacle of God's clear communication to us. How difficult is that? And how deaf and dense we must be not to see it"]

And now we end, as we started: On YOUR premises.



edit on 10-6-2011 by bogomil because: typo and snall addition



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:26 PM
link   
reply to post by SaberTruth
 


From a later post:

["Who are atheists that they should tell other people what their own beliefs should be or how to live them out?"]

No, you are told not to interfere in social life or academic search for 'truth/reality' outside parliamentary rules.

The rest is a question of preachings on public forums met with verbal opposition. If you like, call it counter-preachings, though I would prefer to call it an epistemological confrontation between faith and objectivity.





edit on 10-6-2011 by bogomil because: order of posts answered to reversed



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:37 PM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 


Well said.




posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 04:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaberTruth
That's EXACTLY my point! They want individual responsibility for themselves but make every Christian responsible for all Christians. It's a double standard.
The same can be said for anyone. When you hear of a muslim blowing himself up and killing multiple people, does it make you think that all muslims are bad? Many people do have that mindset.


Originally posted by SaberTruth
And yet atheists play the part of God over us by judging us by their own standards, telling us what they insist the Bible says, and then having the gall to flame us for proselytizing! Who are atheists that they should tell other people what their own beliefs should be or how to live them out? Who do they think they are? Who says "Christians mess up"? We will take care of our own internal issues; it is not for atheists to dictate our doctrines to us. We are human beings doing the best we can, and INDIVIDUALS who cannot be responsible for the whole group. This once again is that double standard where atheists reserve the right to decide what we believe and then flame us for not acting as atheists decree we should.
There are many of us atheists who were once christians, so maybe they feel in the right to do so? Good point though.




Originally posted by SaberTruth
We are fallible humans and I already explained this. Those "thousands" of denominations... surely you would not make such a claim without citing a source, would you? Or make them all differing on SALVATION? Or are the vast majority of difference a matter of how to worship, legitimate differences of opinion, and other such secondary teachings? It seems to me you want to just lump us all together while making atheism exempt from such blanket statements.

Also, as such an authority on all Christianity, you must be familiar with what Jesus and the apostles said would happen, are you not? Something about wolves in sheep's clothing scattering the flock and all that?

Christians are human, got that?


Thousands of denominations.

33,000 denominations. www.philvaz.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Do you have to be baptized to be saved? No www.letusreason.org...

Do you have to be baptized to be saved? Yes theblackcordelias.wordpress.com...

A local church of christ has written on a sign out front, "You must be baptized to be saved," while the church I used to attend does not believe you have to be baptized to be saved, but it is done as something symbolic showing that you have been saved.

Now that you've mentioned that humans are fallible, how can this god blame us for not believing in him as he knows that we are fallible? If he is all knowing, then he understands why we don't believe. Yet, understanding this, he will still allow us to be tortured for all eternity in fire? That makes no sense.
edit on 10-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 04:55 PM
link   
Sabre, do you have any ideas on how christians, muslims, non-believers, etc. can get along on this planet that we share? What steps can be taken to ensure peace amongst ourselves?

I am one of those atheists who are guilty of seeing a christian make a mistake, such as saying that god showed them something which turns out to be false, and coming down on all of christianity for that one christian's mistake. Or hearing of a pastor having a homosexual affair, then lie about it and later come out and say it was true. It makes my view of christianity more dim. It makes me think that maybe they are no better than I am, even though they have an almighty god living in their hearts. Makes me think that maybe I can live better than them without a god in my heart, so why do I need it? Because I'll burn forever if I don't? Shouldn't I just get what this god thinks I deserve? Same thoughts about Islam and other religions, but I'm more familiar with christianity....

So what do I do to better myself?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:00 PM
link   
reply to post by Hydroman
 



Sabre, do you have any ideas on how christians, muslims, non-believers, etc. can get along on this planet that we share? What steps can be taken to ensure peace amongst ourselves?


My opinion, perhaps to resolve the division and the separation; admit that they are all being controlled by a vicious aggrigation of power by select individuals, in the form of organised commune and ritual, admit that belief doesn't require being told what to believe by a book, or by preists. Admit that belief in a deity doesn't require organised religion.

I think we'd all have some common ground after we give up the "tradition" of dogma, and it's superstitious origins. I'm not protesting someone's right to believe, but promoting emancipation from the contraint of organised religion.
edit on 10/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

My opinion, perhaps to resolve the division and the separation; admit that they are all being controlled by a vicious aggrigation of power by select individuals, in the form of organised commune and ritual, admit that belief doesn't require being told what to believe by a book, or by preists. Admit that belief in a deity doesn't require organised religion.

I think we'd all have some common ground after we give up the "tradition" of dogma, and it's superstitious origins. I'm not protesting someone's right to believe, but promoting emancipation from the contraint of organised religion.
edit on 10/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


I often thought to myself that it would be so much easier if these deities would show themselves to us and teach us directly, if they exist. But, I feel like there will still be those who will not believe or may choose not to follow because of various reasons. Seems like a no win scenario.

I also wish that I could know all truth, but then I wonder how I would know it was the truth and not lies, lol. As a christian of 20 years or so, I prayed from my heart that the lord would help me be a true christian, not someone who just claimed to be one. I wanted to be real. Well, after all that praying I'm an atheist.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:19 PM
link   
reply to post by TheUniverse
 



I think i'll stick with it being just another possible theory and a concept contrived by man.


are you writing a contrived theory or concept man?


Honestly it seems like God and/or Religion is just mans way of coping with his Existence in the universe. So Meager So Small So weak So feeble.


you're new so doubt you've come across my Testimony but I used to say the same thing basically though with less emotional gusto
, then one night some time after an abortion had taken place I went to pick up a green Gideon NT that was left on the kitchen bar and as soon as I began to open the cover, an audible invisible voice said my name (like a friend was sitting on my left) then "I am Jesus, I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish" awestruck I stood to my feet turned to the voice and said yes Lord, then many moons later came across these writings by certain men who heard this same voice obviously and had recorded it (thank God!)-



Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the pricks.” -Acts9

For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy -Revelation19

While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” -Matthew17

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice -John5

the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. -1Timothy1

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation -Colossians1

www.biblegateway.com...





edit on 10-6-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rustami

you seem new so doubt you've read my Testimony but I used to say the same thing basically (with less emotional gusto
), then one night some time after an abortion had taken place I went to pick up a green Gideon NT that was left on the kitchen bar and as soon as I began to open the cover, an audible invisible voice said my name (like a friend was sitting on my left) then "I am Jesus, I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish" awestruck I stood to my feet turned to the voice and said yes Lord, then many moons later came across these writings by certain men who heard this same voice obviously and had recorded it (thank God!)-




What happens to those of us who don't get to hear this voice calling to us? And after you answered and said "Yes lord" did you continue the conversation and ask questions? Or was that it? If the voice had said, "I am Hermie, I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish" would you have said "yes" to that too? I mean, you answered pretty quickly it seems without giving it thought....
edit on 10-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
The same can be said for anyone. When you hear of a muslim blowing himself up and killing multiple people, does it make you think that all muslims are bad? Many people do have that mindset.

We all tend to do that. But specifically regarding Islam, are you aware that their holy books actually do teach them to literally kill infidels, and that by doing so they are given 70 virgins in heaven? No Muslim scholar denies this, and there are plenty of current and former Muslim websites and books documenting what Muslim scholars say. A "good" Muslim cannot defy Sharia law, which is incompatible with any other national law, and it is the duty of every "good" Muslim to work toward that goal. So while all Muslims don't push the detonator, their religion promotes it as ideal and honorable. In other words, a Muslim we'd call "good" is actually an apostate.

In contrast, a Christian who kills, steals, lusts, etc. is acting in direct violation of the Bible, esp. the NT. Never are Christians told to use force to advance the gospel; never are we told to subvert the government; never are we told to force conversion. Those who do such things are acting contrary to the teachings of scripture.


There are many of us atheists who were once christians, so maybe they feel in the right to do so? Good point though.

The former Christians may have been the poorly trained ones I keep hearing about, no? Just something to keep in mind.


Thousands of denominations.

Thanks for backing up your claim. It's only fair to make both sides do this.


Do you have to be baptized to be saved? ... Do you have to be baptized to be saved?

I was not specific enough, sorry. What I meant was that they all hold to at least faith in the risen Jesus, if they can be considered Christian at all. I cited the fairly neutral Wiki definition in another thread that says as much; here it is again from this source:


A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament. "Christian" derives from the Greek word Christ, a translation of the Hebrew term Messiah.[1]

Central to the Christian faith is love or Agape. Christians also believe Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, the Son of God, and the savior of mankind from their sins.[2] Most Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity ("tri-unity"), a description of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which retains the monotheistic belief of Christianity's Abrahamic heritage through an ineffable confluence. This includes the vast majority of the churches in Christianity. A minority of Christian churches are Nontrinitarians.



Now that you've mentioned that humans are fallible, how can this god blame us for not believing in him as he knows that we are fallible? If he is all knowing, then he understands why we don't believe. Yet, understanding this, he will still allow us to be tortured for all eternity in fire? That makes no sense.

We're fallible, but not complete morons to the point where we cannot understand "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved". Also in Rom. 1 is the famous passage about the existence of God being self-evident from creation; you disagree but God begs to differ. People can be willfully blind and it isn't God's fault. The Bible attributes non-belief to willful rebellion against God, a problem of pride. And that's a personal choice, not something we can't help.
edit on 10-6-2011 by SaberTruth because: typos



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaberTruth

We all tend to do that. But specifically regarding Islam, are you aware that their holy books actually do teach them to literally kill infidels, and that by doing so they are given 70 virgins in heaven? No Muslim scholar denies this, and there are plenty of current and former Muslim websites and books documenting what Muslim scholars say. A "good" Muslim cannot defy Sharia law, which is incompatible with any other national law, and it is the duty of every "good" Muslim to work toward that goal. So while all Muslims don't push the detonator, their religion promotes it as ideal and honorable. In other words, a Muslim we'd call "good" is actually an apostate.

In contrast, a Christian who kills, steals, lusts, etc. is acting in direct violation of the Bible, esp. the NT. Never are Christians told to use force to advance the gospel; never are we told to subvert the government; never are we told to force conversion. Those who do such things are acting contrary to the teachings of scripture.

In the O.T., which was still under the same god that is in the N.T., followers of Yahweh were led to kill many, many people including babies. Is it only good when the christian god says to do it? Don't forget the dark ages and the witch trials as well.


Originally posted by SaberTruth
The former Christians may have been the poorly trained ones I keep hearing about, no? Just something to keep in mind.
I thought christians were trained and led by the holy spirit?


Originally posted by SaberTruth
We're fallible, but not complete morons to the point where we cannot understand "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved". Also in Rom. 1 is the famous passage about the existence of God being self-evident from creation; you disagree but God begs to differ. People can be willfully blind and it isn't God's fault. The Bible attributes non-belief to willful rebellion against God, a problem of pride. And that's a personal choice, not something we can't help.
edit on 10-6-2011 by SaberTruth because: typos

If you were born in Saudi Arabia, would you be a moron for not believing in Jesus as your savior? Are you a moron for not believing as muslims do? Are you a moron for not believing as a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon believes? What about Buddhists? What about Hindus, or ancient egyptians or ancient greeks? I just believe in one less god than you.

Your god is self evident? In what way would that be? By looking at my surroundings and thinking, "hmmmm, I can't figure out how this got here, must mean a god did it?" Did you know that ancient people did this all the time? They thought the sun was dragged across the sky by a god in a chariot, and that lightning bolts were thrown down by gods, etc. We can explain those things today that they couldn't back then. In the future, we may be able to explain things then that we can't now. You can't just fill in "god did it" when you can't understand how something happens. Or is that what we should do in your opinion?
edit on 10-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
Sabre, do you have any ideas on how christians, muslims, non-believers, etc. can get along on this planet that we share? What steps can be taken to ensure peace amongst ourselves?

I am one of those atheists who are guilty of seeing a christian make a mistake, such as saying that god showed them something which turns out to be false, and coming down on all of christianity for that one christian's mistake. Or hearing of a pastor having a homosexual affair, then lie about it and later come out and say it was true. It makes my view of christianity more dim. It makes me think that maybe they are no better than I am, even though they have an almighty god living in their hearts. Makes me think that maybe I can live better than them without a god in my heart, so why do I need it? Because I'll burn forever if I don't? Shouldn't I just get what this god thinks I deserve? Same thoughts about Islam and other religions, but I'm more familiar with christianity....

So what do I do to better myself?

I grieve and rage at the poor examples being presented by professing Christians. I get in their faces when I can, and you can guess that I'm not the most popular kid on the block. They will get what's coming to them, sooner or later. I have free online books on the topic if you're interested, at books.fether.net....

The Bible tells Christians "As much as it depends on you, live in peace with everyone." But the Quran tells Muslims, "kill the infidel" or make them pay the tax. We can only control ourselves and recognize that not everyone defines peace as tolerance of other views in society. As long as violent people exist, nonviolent people must be willing to stand against them if needed. But we must not try to foment violence. Unbelievers, as I'm told by them, are not a coherent group who can be told to live by a set of standards, so again all I can do as a Christian is my best to live in peace.

I don't deny there are atheists who put many Christians to shame in the quality of their lives. But Christianity, according to the Bible, never says it's impossible to be good without the indwelling Holy Spirit. However, it is impossible to live like the devil if one has the HS, so any who claim to have the HS but live in sin are liars. We don't have to be good before we can be saved, but we have to be good after, or we need a serious "sit down" with Christians who both know the scriptures and live by them. In fact, that match between words and deeds is supposed to be the first requirement for any Christian leader.

People will always disappoint you. But Jesus never will.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaberTruth

I grieve and rage at the poor examples being presented by professing Christians. I get in their faces when I can, and you can guess that I'm not the most popular kid on the block. They will get what's coming to them, sooner or later. I have free online books on the topic if you're interested, at books.fether.net....


If these christians have taken the steps required in the bible to be saved, such as confess that Jesus is their lord, and believe in him, and accept his free gift of salvation, what will they get that is coming to them? Eternal life? Or will you say that true christians that have done those things would not be poor examples?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
I often thought to myself that it would be so much easier if these deities would show themselves to us and teach us directly, if they exist. But, I feel like there will still be those who will not believe or may choose not to follow because of various reasons. Seems like a no win scenario.

Remember the account of "the rich man and Lazarus"? At the end, Abraham tells the rich man, "No, let them listen to Moses. If they don't, they won't believe even if someone rises from the dead." True story... Jesus rose from the dead and it still isn't good enough for many people.


As a christian of 20 years or so, I prayed from my heart that the lord would help me be a true christian, not someone who just claimed to be one. I wanted to be real. Well, after all that praying I'm an atheist.

Maybe that's why some of us Christians are here.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:49 PM
link   
reply to post by SaberTruth
 


You wrote:

["Also in Rom. 1 is the famous passage about the existence of God being self-evident from creation;"]

A book declaring itself 'true' is a worthless argument; and trying to make a claim of self-evidence in this context isn't better. What's so self-evident here?

Especially considering the christian unwillingness (to say the least) about the reality-check made possible by genesis 1. I have yet to see a christian accepting to participate in such an examination.

So postulated 'self-evidence', yes. A check, NO.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 05:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
In the O.T., which was still under the same god that is in the N.T., followers of Yahweh were led to kill many, many people including babies. Is it only good when the christian god says to do it? Don't forget the dark ages and the witch trials as well.

If you consider the context, the people the Jews were to destroy were quite evil. God often used one group of people to punish another, even if the people to be punished were the Jews. Some speculate that many of these people were spreading disease or some great spiritual evil, explaining why even children and animals were to be killed. We weren't told every detail as to why, but we also need to avoid porting modern sensitivities onto ancient near east society and morals. Yes, same God, but this God doesn't operate people like puppets; he chooses rather to work with people where they are. The NT supports this view, saying that God overlooked a lot of things in the past (Paul's address to the Greek philosophers in Acts 16 as I recall), but now that Jesus has come there are no more excuses. Context is key, both in literature and history.

So anytime after the NT period, any teacher of scripture who did not follow it on some key point was a false one, and I don't care how famous they are now. If the apostles were fending off "wild beasts" then, what would happen after they all died out? Exactly what we got: false or inept teachers and a lot of misled people, esp. when most of them couldn't read for themselves. But there will be a time of judgment, and all who did evil in the name of Christ will be punished. As Jesus said in his parable of the sheep and goats, there will be many who claim to have done much good in Jesus' name, but he will say to them, "I never knew you".


I thought christians were trained and led by the holy spirit?

Ever hear the expression, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"? Don't tell me you've already forgotten what I said about how the HS operates in us; I won't keep repeating it.



If you were born in Saudi Arabia, would you be a moron for not believing in Jesus as your savior? Are you a moron for not believing as muslims do? Are you a moron for not believing as a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon believes? What about Buddhists? What about Hindus, or ancient egyptians or ancient greeks? I just believe in one less god than you.

Are you really going to make me sit on the witness stand forever? When is it YOUR turn? Really, you are morphing into a Spanish Inquisitor.

I trust God to get the gospel to whoever is open to it. Let him worry about that; I'll keep doing what I can.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 06:07 PM
link   
reply to post by SaberTruth
 


You wrote:

["The Bible tells Christians "As much as it depends on you, live in peace with everyone." But the Quran tells Muslims, "kill the infidel" or make them pay the tax."]

And because you can find somebody, who are about six centuries further from democracy (and remember that christianity had to be dragged into democracy) your crowd is OK?

Paulus is STILL a paranoic/megalomaniac sociopath with with weird ideas on the origin of suffering and the 'cure' for it. And invasive christians still have the the missionary syndrome. And christians still try to nestle their way into privileged position in society through extra-parliamentary claims.

Quote: ["In fact, that match between words and deeds is supposed to be the first requirement for any Christian leader."]

C'mon. The old faith, law and do-good schism in christianity doesn't disappear, because you sugarcoat the situation.




edit on 10-6-2011 by bogomil because: typos



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 06:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Hydroman
 


a few good questions and a few foolish ones also -all are addressed in the scriptures.. have only seen the winged Angel?/Cherub? that was bright white all over like lightning once when I was around 13y.o and only the one time visit when the audible sentence was spoken which was many years later


the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow -Matthew28

He testifies about what he has seen and heard, but how few believe what he tells them! Anyone who accepts his testimony can affirm that God is true. -John3

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. -John20

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. -1Corinthians12

water baptism?

John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. -Luke3

His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. -Revelation19


edit on 10-6-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 06:29 PM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 



A book declaring itself 'true' is a worthless argument; and trying to make a claim of self-evidence in this context isn't better. What's so self-evident here?


would'nt it have been better to say writings of man? (like you're doing)


men wrote [a more sure word of prophecy] as they were moved by the Spirit-

And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.-2Peter1

He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.-John7

But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all who believe. -Romans3

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth -9

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. -John1

they [the scriptures] are they which testify of me.-5

But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary -1Corinthians

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for all are one in Christ Jesus -Galatians3

Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.
www.biblegateway.com...

edit on 10-6-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join