It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I am a Theist.

page: 5
6
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaberTruth
But that isn't the question on the table. The OP wants to be persuaded that no god exists, and merely asserting "there is no evidence" is obviously not sufficient. You need to specify what constitutes valid evidence and then persuade the OP that none exists.
edit on 9-6-2011 by SaberTruth because: typos

How would you be able to prove that something such as an omnipotent, omniscient god doesn't exist? You can't even prove that any of the ancient gods don't exist. I mean, I could say, if the god of the bible exists, then let him strike me dead before I finish this sentence. And see, I'm still here, so he must not exist. But, then the believer would come up with a reason why his god didn't finish me off and I would not have proved anything.
edit on 9-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:48 PM
link   
The OP wants to be persuaded that no god exists, and merely asserting "there is no evidence" is obviously not sufficient.

So by saying that the OP wants us to persuade that no god exists, basically means one exists, atleast to him, and therefore that isnt sufficient evidence that it exists. So basically we are going in circles, believers say there is a god, non believers say one doesnt.
edit on 9-6-2011 by scottromansky because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by Hydroman
 


Ancient God's can be falsified with ease.

Ancient God's that were alledged to have sent punishment to it's creations in the form of geological events or catastrophes (floods, earthquakes, torandoes etc,)

Many people thought it was punishment for "sins".

We now know more about the planet we exist on; we know that we exist on a heating and cooling planet.

Yet that doesn't stop some rediculous religious preaching:-


The Sunday Telegraph reported that the Bishop of Carlisle had said that the flooding in the East and North of England especially South Yorkshire was the result of provoking God to anger through the recent anti-gay discrimination laws passed by Parliament. These laws would force, for example, Christian hoteliers to allow same-sex guests to share a bed. or Christian adoption agencies to accept lesbian and gay prospective parents.


If God sent floods to absolve homosexuality, why not chose a more homosexually orientated location to flood?


edit on 9/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:52 PM
link   
I could say, "If gods do indeed exist, why are there debates as to whether or not they exist? Why isn't it obvious to everyone if such beings exist and which ones out of the many are the true gods?" and the response would be.....?



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
What I find interesting about that, is that many times christians will say that non-believers aren't able to understand the texts because they don't have the holy spirit helping them. Yet, believers do have the holy spirit helping them and still can't answer certain questions if it's not mentioned in the holy book. Why not? Why doesn't the holy spirit tell them?

Many Christians take the statement about "spiritual discernment" out of context. It comes from 1 Cor. 2:14 and the context is "deeper things of God", not normal reading comprehension. Yet at the same time, it is equally mistaken for people to skim the Bible or even spend a year or two reading it and consider themselves to have mastered it. Not all Christians get into those "deeper things" either, but I don't put much stock in "helicopter theology" (flitting around the text and lifting out snippets based on a surface reading). Also, not everyone has good reading comprehension skills, and still fewer are well-trained in grammar and ancient history. There is a lot to consider when debating an ancient text in languages not one's own.

The Holy Spirit is a perfect "transmitter" but we are imperfect "receivers". God does not operate us like puppets, and is more concerned with character than performance, such that there is even something to be gained by letting people disagree-- it develops character. How we disagree among ourselves is as important as who is right.


Originally posted by SaberTruth
Are you saying that Eve wasn't driven out of the garden?

Exactly. It says "the man" throughout, not "them" or "the man and the woman".

Consider the fact that only Adam was made from "the dust of the earth", and it was that "dust" which was cursed on his account. Adam and the animals and plants were all made from the same dust, while Eve was made from Adam. God never cursed either of them directly but only that which was made from the dust of the earth because of Adam.
edit on 9-6-2011 by SaberTruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-6-2011 by SaberTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:55 PM
link   
reply to post by scottromansky
 


Check out his posts in:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

THis thread is blatently a response to that thread; also, the author of this thread ("I am an Atheist") is clearly a troll;

The author has not replied, and just states small pathetic arugments; he's definetly not an Atheist; just a troll.
edit on 9/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Ancient God's can be falsified with ease.

Ancient God's that were alledged to have sent punishment to it's creations in the form of geological events or catastrophes (floods, earthquakes, torandoes etc,)

Many people thought it was punishment for "sins".

We now know more about the planet we exist on; we know that we exist on a heating and cooling planet.

Yet that doesn't stop some rediculous religious preaching:-


You haven't proven ancient gods don't exist. How do you know that these gods don't have the ability to manipulate weather as they see fit? I mean, flooding occurs in nature, but man too can cause flooding. Nature can cause diseases, so can man. How do you know it wasn't a god or gods creating havoc?



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 03:57 PM
link   
reply to post by Hydroman
 



You haven't proven ancient gods don't exist. How do you know that these gods don't have the ability to manipulate weather as they see fit? I mean, flooding occurs in nature, but man too can cause flooding. Nature can cause diseases, so can man. How do you know it wasn't a god or gods creating havoc?


You don't know there isn't a teapot orbitting a nearby solar system, if i'm careful to add that it can't be verified by our best telescopes.

Do you believe it? Do you think it's true? Of course, it can't be falsified, but then how was the claim made in the first place?



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaberTruth

Many Christians take the statement about "spiritual discernment" out of context. It comes from 1 Cor. 2:14 and the context is "deeper things of God", not normal reading comprehension. Yet at the same time, it is equally mistaken for people to skim the Bible or even spend a year or two reading it and consider themselves to have mastered it. Not all Christians get into those "deeper things" either, but I don't put much stock in "helicopter theology" (flitting around the text and lifting out snippets based on a surface reading). Also, not everyone has good reading comprehension skills, and still fewer are well-trained in grammar and ancient history. There is a lot to consider when debating an ancient text in languages not one's own.
Understood.


Originally posted by SaberTruth
The Holy Spirit is a perfect "transmitter" but we are imperfect "receivers".
How did you come up with that info as it isn't in the Bible?



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by scottromansky
 


Check out his posts in:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

THis thread is blatently a response to that thread; also, the author of this thread ("I am an Atheist") is clearly a troll;

The author has not replied, and just states small pathetic arugments; he's definetly not an Atheist; just a troll.
edit on 9/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


I've already linked that thread and explained the reason for making this one Sparky.

Catch up plz.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:04 PM
link   
reply to post by Hydroman
 


It seems the believer is confident in discussing and revealing the wisdom of the unknown.

It's always been the case.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware


You don't know there isn't a teapot orbitting a nearby solar system, if i'm careful to add that it can't be verified by our best telescopes.

Do you believe it? Do you think it's true? Of course, it can't be falsified, but then how was the claim made in the first place?


You are correct, I don't know there isn't a teapot orbiting a nearby solar system. No, I don't believe it because I don't see any evidence for it, and in my opinion it is a silly idea. Could it really be there though? Sure. Do I care? No.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by SaberTruth
The Holy Spirit is a perfect "transmitter" but we are imperfect "receivers".
How did you come up with that info as it isn't in the Bible?

God is perfect, is he not?
We are imperfect, are we not?
Simple deductive reasoning.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by scottromansky
The OP wants to be persuaded that no god exists, and merely asserting "there is no evidence" is obviously not sufficient.

So by saying that the OP wants us to persuade that no god exists, basically means one exists, atleast to him, and therefore that isnt sufficient evidence that it exists. So basically we are going in circles, believers say there is a god, non believers say one doesnt.
edit on 9-6-2011 by scottromansky because: (no reason given)


I don't need to persuade myself that God exists. If you hadn't noticed the title of my thread is:

"I am a Theist".



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:09 PM
link   

edit on 9-6-2011 by Hydroman because: Don't know what happened to this post.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:11 PM
link   
reply to post by Hydroman
 



Do I care? No.


Point taken.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


I don't need to persuade myself that God exists. If you hadn't noticed the title of my thread is:

"I am a Theist".

As a theist, how did you come to the conclusion that gods exist? Were you raised in a manner that caused you to believe in a certain god? Did you find evidence for a certain god existing? Did you have a personal experience with this god?
edit on 9-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaberTruth

The Holy Spirit is a perfect "transmitter" but we are imperfect "receivers".



I'm still interested in this idea. How are we receivers? In what way do we receive things from the transmitter? How do you know you received something from the transmitter and how does it transmit things?

I say this because I have experienced many failed receivings from the holy transmitter via believers who claimed to have communication with the all-knowing biblical god. I've seen them fail many, many times. So, being imperfect receivers, how do they know whether or not they received anything at all, and didn't just come up with an idea themselves? How do they differentiate the two?
edit on 9-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
I mean, I could say, if the god of the bible exists, then let him strike me dead before I finish this sentence. And see, I'm still here, so he must not exist. But, then the believer would come up with a reason why his god didn't finish me off and I would not have proved anything.


Is that sound logic to you? Why not ask this: "If the God of the Bible exists, then please allow me to live past the end of this sentence." After you complete it and you're still alive, then clearly He DOES exist, right? I'm just amazed at the crazy garbage that some non-believers throw out there to explain/ justify why there is no God.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 04:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hydroman
I'm still interested in this idea. How are we receivers? In what way do we receive things from the transmitter? How do you know you received something from the transmitter and how does it transmit things?

I say this because I have experienced many failed receivings from the holy transmitter via believers who claimed to have communication with the all-knowing biblical god. I've seen them fail many, many times. So, being imperfect receivers, how do they know whether or not they received anything at all, and didn't just come up with an idea themselves? How do they differentiate the two?

So, you got faulty signals from faulty receivers passing their imperfect understanding to you? I'm shocked!


I'm talking about the Christian listening to the Holy Spirit's voice within them, ergo you have NOT experienced any receivings from the Holy Spirit. Each of us Christians does our best, and that's all even God can ask of us. But I must assume from your interrogation that atheists are always perfect in their understanding and none of them ever misrepresent the un-faith. Right?


"How they know" is one of those things you have to have before you can know it. Kind of like love.

But I am tired of this rabbit trail and trust that my explanation is good enough for a perfect person, understanding that I'm not.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join