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I want to become a Mason. I have big questions.

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posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 05:51 PM
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I'd like Freemasons to answer this, if possible. It's a long post, but I'd certainly appreciate some thoughtful comments. ;-)

I'm on this board because there's some discussion of freemasonry going on here, and there are some who seem like honest people. I'm thinking of becoming a Mason, because the idea of meeting people worth knowing appeals to me, as well as the opportunity for some serious learning. The fact that te masons do good work in the community sweetens the idea.

I do have some questions, though. I tend to be the questioning type. This doesn't appeal to some people, but too bad. My current situation: I'm 27, male, finishing an Hons. B.A. at the University of Toronto, a full-time student right now, so finances are tight but not desperate. I have been involved in community-charity work of varying degrees for 3 years, and I'm also preparing to enter law school. I have no criminal record and I lead a fairly clean life. Just a little bio, for the simple reason that I wodner wat my chances will be for aceptance.

My questions:

1.) I've been doing some preliminary research on Freemasonry . . . on the net, probably the worst source there is, but still a source. I've read excerpts from the wroks of Albert Pike and Manly Hall, both high-level masons. Pike in particular, alludes to a "visible" and "invisible" masonry, as well as the powers of "Lucifer" that a mason must demonstrate skill in before actually using, to paraphrase. I don;t know what any of this means. At first glance, the visible/invisible masonry seems like the differences between the knowledge of a "regular" mason and a high-level (say, 33rd degree) mason. Are high-level masons privy to some kind of knowledge that lower level masons do not, or SHOULD NOT know? Is it more than simply plays acted out in order to demonstrate masonic morality? I think either Pike or Hall refer to some of the knowledge being "deadly" for those who do not know how to use it or understand it. I do not suggest any kind of "conspiracy" or New World Order, just knowledge that might reveal something amazing about humanity or life, or our purpse here that might require a more skilled mind, or a mind more learned in the way of masonry, in order to understand it fully This leads me to my next question . . . .

2.) Here's where the strange things begin. I have read (not saying it is actually true), mostly from priests or those of the Christian faith, including someone who claims to be a high-ranking mason, that there is indeed some kind of dual nature to masonry. The public masonry that does good works, that raises money for charity, that even those at the highest levels are involved in and do not get beyond. All the nice, friendly things. Then there is the "inner" world of masonry. I don;t mean patronage or an old boys club where men make business deals over cigars and watch out for each others' interests - that's still common knowledge. What is meant is a secretive, dangerous, very "special" kind of masonry that not everyone gets to experience. Again, this might just be overzealous Christians attempting to attack something they might find subversive (the Church never liked Freemasonry to begin with), but I'll still address it. Several sources claimed that a mason, at some point, will come to a crossraods in his training, could be at the beginning, could be a later. It migt take the form of simple questions about faith, family, friends, or it might take the form of something like denying Jesus Christ directly, such as spitting on the cross. It sounds preposterous, but Freemasonry IS very old, was (and perhaps still is) quite powerful, and so forth. Basically, the mason's teachers will somehow determine whether he can be "trusted" to movefurther and learn special things. A key element of this trust will be denail of Christ. If they determine that the mason HAS denied Christ, the mason might be publicly castigated, but privately commended, and be allowed to delve into knowledge of a secret (and supposedly quite powerful) nature. I'm not suggesting Aliens or UFOs or communication with the supernatural (which some DO suggest), just knowledge that might turn what everyone accepts as reality, upside-down. It could be a "new" religion of some kind . . . . . .
If it is determined that the mason has not or will not deny Christ, he will be somehow approved of publicly, but privately destined to be allowed to advance so far in his mason ic journey. Don;t know what that means, but it has been claimed that even some 33rd degree masons don't quite know what others do. Go figure.

So, my concern is: I want to learn all ther is to learn, and not be lied to. Hoe acn I be sure what I'm being told is "true" and how canI be sure I will be given all the opportunities (dpending on my diligence) to learn all there is to learn? Get my drift ? The interesting part is that it is claimed that most masons (perhaps YOU) don't know about any of this because they are kept deliberately in the dark about such matters. Uh oh . . . ;-)

3) What exaclty is required for acceptance. I gave you a little bio on myself . . . what do you think? What is involved in the "investigative" process? On what grounds might a person be rejected? Just how difficult is it to become a mason?

So, the end of my long post. I really do appreciate those who took the time to go through it all.

Thanks.

[edit on 10-8-2004 by John bull 1]




posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 05:56 PM
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Biblically speaking, we are encouraged to stay away, if a Christian, from anything that is or even appears evil. Does that mean that if you choose to become a mason, you cannot be a Christian? No, and I would never want to put myself in the position of being the judge of ones eternal state. But I would not advise a Christian to become one. Serving in ones Church, working at the food bank, all of those other areas of ministry also serve the community, but in the name of Christ.

Anyway, that is my perspective. I cannot offer any other than what I have studied ABOUT the masons, but have no actual experience.



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
I'd like Freemasons to answer this, if possible. It's a long post, but I'd certainly appreciate some thoughtful comments. ;-)


I'll do my best. I've been a Freemason since September 2001 (bad timing, I know, but what can you do), a Scottish Rite Mason since January 2002, and a Royal Arch Mason since April 2003.



My current situation: I'm 27, male, finishing an Hons. B.A. at the University of Toronto, a full-time student right now, so finances are tight but not desperate. I have been involved in community-charity work of varying degrees for 3 years, and I'm also preparing to enter law school. I have no criminal record and I lead a fairly clean life. Just a little bio, for the simple reason that I wodner wat my chances will be for aceptance.


Acceptance is generally based on the inner, not the outer qualifications of a man. Due you believe in a supreme being? Are you over 21? are you a just, upright, and moral man? Then you will probably be admitted if you apply.

Just for your information, I am currently also 27. I was previously a research scientist and am now in training to be a high school teacher. There are Masons from all walks of life, whether they be professionals, blue-collar workers, or the unemployed. A man's standing in the working world is irrelevant to his membership, unless he is dishonest in his work.

On to your questions... some of your questions show either ignorance of the truth or intentional misrepresentation. I have no doubt that it is simply the former, and that you simply haven't read the truth.



My questions:

1.)I've read excerpts from the wroks of Albert Pike and Manly Hall, both high-level masons.


Wild conspiracy theories to the contrary, there are no "high-level" and "low-level" Masons. There are only Masons. Pike was a very accomplished Freemason, and had a great deal of knowledge about philosophy and religion, but he was no "higher" than any other Mason. I know less about Hall, but do know that he had an externsive knowledge about the occult and esoteric. It seems that the books you wrote by Hall are those that were written decades before he became a Freemason. That should be enough to convince you that they are not representative of the facts.



Pike in particular, alludes to a "visible" and "invisible" masonry, as well as the powers of "Lucifer" that a mason must demonstrate skill in before actually using, to paraphrase.


I have read several works by Pike, and although I hate to toot my own horn, I would say I've read more Pike than the VAST majority of my brethren, except those who are Pike Scholars.

Pike never said either of those things. If you post a quote and a source, I'll look into it, but neither "Morals & Dogma" nor the Legenda and Readings have anything like what you're saying.



At first glance, the visible/invisible masonry seems like the differences between the knowledge of a "regular" mason and a high-level (say, 33rd degree) mason.


The term "33rd" degree does not apply to Masonry proper. Freemasonry has three degrees, and that's it. There is an organisation called "The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite" which only accepts Freemasons in good standing, and it gives a 33rd degree for one of two reasons: to reward those who have done exceptional service to Freemasonry or humanity in general; or to indicate that someone is on the jurisdiction's supreme council of the Scottish Rite.



Are high-level masons privy to some kind of knowledge that lower level masons do not, or SHOULD NOT know?


Since there are no high-level Masons, the answer to your question is "no." The only way that more experienced Freemasons are privy to knowledge that non-experienced Masons do not have is the same way that people with Ph.D.s have more knowledge than people with Bachelour's degrees.




I think either Pike or Hall refer to some of the knowledge being "deadly" for those who do not know how to use it or understand it.


Nope. Many of these phrases have very important contexts. I don't have the time here to go into how knowledge without wisdom can be deadly. If you wish, open a new thread and we can address that specifically.



I do not suggest any kind of "conspiracy" or New World Order, just knowledge that might reveal something amazing about humanity or life, or our purpse here that might require a more skilled mind, or a mind more learned in the way of masonry, in order to understand it fully


The answer to this is deeper than I can give here. That's part of the reason why we require people to be initiated to learn what we have to say. Some things can't even be discussed until you have a common vocabulary. That doesn't make them sinister, just sophisticated (although some people feel that sinister and sophisticated are synonyms). If you wish me to discuss this further, start a new thread or U2U me.




2.) Here's where the strange things begin. I have read (not saying it is actually true), mostly from priests or those of the Christian faith, including someone who claims to be a high-ranking mason, that there is indeed some kind of dual nature to masonry.


There is no dual nature to Masonry. There is one set of symbols, one set of concepts, which can be well or poorly understood.



The public masonry that does good works, that raises money for charity, that even those at the highest levels are involved in and do not get beyond. All the nice, friendly things. Then there is the "inner" world of masonry.


No. This is not so. There is nothing further I can say on this, because it simply is not true.



It migt take the form of simple questions about faith, family, friends, or it might take the form of something like denying Jesus Christ directly, such as spitting on the cross.


Nope. I've never even been asked about my religion, at all, except to ask if I believe in a Supreme Being. To give an illustrative example: when I asked to join the Masonic Knights Templar (which only accepts those who believe in the Christian Trinity), I was not asked "are you a Christian?" Rather, the individuals simply told me that belief in the Trinity is required. I actually told them I am an Anglican, and they told me "we don't need to know that, as long as you believe in the Trinity." There is generally a strong habit among Masons not to ask about a man's religion. Everyone is completely entitled to their own beliefs, as long as they are not an atheist.




A key element of this trust will be denail of Christ.


Nope. Simply not true. It's a lie, in other words.



So, my concern is: I want to learn all ther is to learn, and not be lied to. Hoe acn I be sure what I'm being told is "true" and how canI be sure I will be given all the opportunities (dpending on my diligence) to learn all there is to learn?


There's this concept called "trust." It's actually required in a lot of human relations, even though people don't seem to realise it. It's the only way you can know someone loves you, it's the only way you can engage in commerce, it's the only way you can live life without curling up into a ball and dying. For some reason, though, anti-Masons don't want you to realise that trust is a part of everyday life. In fact, as a Christian, trusting others is part of your doctrine.



3) What exaclty is required for acceptance. I gave you a little bio on myself . . . what do you think? What is involved in the "investigative" process? On what grounds might a person be rejected? Just how difficult is it to become a mason?


I myself have been on an investigating committee, so I can speak from experience. We want to make sure that you believe in a Supreme Being, that you are a decent and upright man, and that you are joining because you want to be more serviceable to your fellow sentient creatures. It's tremendously easy to become a Mason if you're a decent, caring, believing man. It is very difficult if you are not.

And, regarding those who might talk to you about doing things "in the name of Christ." As a Christian, I don't feel that I have to constantly trumpet about my Christianity in order to follow my faith. If you do feel that everything you do has to be accompanied by a big, waving banner saying "I am a Christian," then maybe Masonry isn't for you. If you're confident enough in your faith, however, that you don't need to hate everything other than the Church in order to love the Church, then no problem.



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 07:10 PM
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Some folks fear doing good and some fear joining because some fools say something is evil The bible says that a good tree bears good fruit, and a bad tree, bad fruits.

The fruits of masonry are honor, truth, morality, service, charity, faith, hope, brotherly love, temperance, prudcence, justice...

That being the case, history speaks the answer...

Now, your questions:

1.) I've been doing some preliminary research on Freemasonry . . . on the net, probably the worst source there is, but still a source. I've read excerpts from the wroks of Albert Pike and Manly Hall, both high-level masons. Pike in particular, alludes to a "visible" and "invisible" masonry, as well as the powers of "Lucifer" that a mason must demonstrate skill in before actually using, to paraphrase. I don;t know what any of this means. At first glance, the visible/invisible masonry seems like the differences between the knowledge of a "regular" mason and a high-level (say, 33rd degree) mason. Are high-level masons privy to some kind of knowledge that lower level masons do not, or SHOULD NOT know? Is it more than simply plays acted out in order to demonstrate masonic morality? I think either Pike or Hall refer to some of the knowledge being "deadly" for those who do not know how to use it or understand it. I do not suggest any kind of "conspiracy" or New World Order, just knowledge that might reveal something amazing about humanity or life, or our purpse here that might require a more skilled mind, or a mind more learned in the way of masonry, in order to understand it fully This leads me to my next question . . . .

There are several answers to this.

First, no one man speaks for masonry. Pike and Coil et al have their own opinions on what they learned and understood.

Second, the whole seething energies of lucifer thing is a quote taken from a hoax and a slander.

Third, while Pike refers to Lucifer twice in Morals and Dogma, it is clear from his context that he is not speaking of the fallen angel, the devil of Christian theology, and at no time is he speaking of worshiping him. If you are really curious, and like philosophical works, borrow a copy of Morals and Dogma frorm your local library.

2.) Here's where the strange things begin. I have read (not saying it is actually true), mostly from priests or those of the Christian faith, including someone who claims to be a high-ranking mason, that there is indeed some kind of dual nature to masonry. The public masonry that does good works, that raises money for charity, that even those at the highest levels are involved in and do not get beyond. All the nice, friendly things. Then there is the "inner" world of masonry. I don;t mean patronage or an old boys club where men make business deals over cigars and watch out for each others' interests - that's still common knowledge. What is meant is a secretive, dangerous, very "special" kind of masonry that not everyone gets to experience. Again, this might just be overzealous Christians attempting to attack something they might find subversive (the Church never liked Freemasonry to begin with), but I'll still address it. Several sources claimed that a mason, at some point, will come to a crossraods in his training, could be at the beginning, could be a later. It migt take the form of simple questions about faith, family, friends, or it might take the form of something like denying Jesus Christ directly, such as spitting on the cross. It sounds preposterous, but Freemasonry IS very old, was (and perhaps still is) quite powerful, and so forth. Basically, the mason's teachers will somehow determine whether he can be "trusted" to movefurther and learn special things. A key element of this trust will be denail of Christ. If they determine that the mason HAS denied Christ, the mason might be publicly castigated, but privately commended, and be allowed to delve into knowledge of a secret (and supposedly quite powerful) nature. I'm not suggesting Aliens or UFOs or communication with the supernatural (which some DO suggest), just knowledge that might turn what everyone accepts as reality, upside-down. It could be a "new" religion of some kind . . . . . .
If it is determined that the mason has not or will not deny Christ, he will be somehow approved of publicly, but privately destined to be allowed to advance so far in his mason ic journey. Don;t know what that means, but it has been claimed that even some 33rd degree masons don't quite know what others do. Go figure.

The kindest thing that could be said of this is hogwash...

Look, lets examine this logically for a moment, ok? A man joins masonry professing a faith in god, lives as a mason for years, professing a faith in god, and then suddenly, shazam, one day he turns away froma lifetime of service?

What you are reading is the bilious tripe written by the kinds of folks that think masons secretly run the world, killed JFK, sacrifice babies and use nude virgins in our ceremonies. They are the kind that think aliens are among us and that time travel is possible. In a word, they are deranged folks, sucking up the lies and falsehoods of a core of evil people.

I mean, think about it. Masonry has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. In ALL of that time, not one shred of proof of any of this has been discovered. Further, the works of masonry stand as mute testimony to the good works of its members. So, the only question that has to be asked is what group or entity would be served by slandering the good and honorable men of masonry? It is not god, to be sure.

So, my concern is: I want to learn all ther is to learn, and not be lied to. How can I be sure what I'm being told is "true" and how canI be sure I will be given all the opportunities (dpending on my diligence) to learn all there is to learn? Get my drift ? The interesting part is that it is claimed that most masons (perhaps YOU) don't know about any of this because they are kept deliberately in the dark about such matters. Uh oh . . . ;-)

Well, its called a leap of faith. NOTHING in masonry conflicts with the teachings of the bible. NOTHING.

3) What exaclty is required for acceptance. I gave you a little bio on myself . . . what do you think? What is involved in the "investigative" process? On what grounds might a person be rejected? Just how difficult is it to become a mason?

You just did the tough part. All you have to do is ask, be a man, under the tongue of good report, with a faith in god, however you know him, and a belief in the afterlife.

That's it. u2u me with what city/state you are in and I will write back with a lodge address and phone near you. Call them, tell them you want to join, and someone will put a petition in your hands.

You will never regret this decision.


[edit on 7/8/04 by theron dunn]



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 07:41 PM
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Well , well. I don't know what to say. Questions answered. Thank you so much! :-)

Yes, I AM ignorant, hence my questions. i'm hungry to learn, hungry to connect with others who want to do the same and who are living a life that is truly worth living. I've worked very hard at my academics, have kept faith in myself and others through difficult times, and I want the "next phase" of my life to be more full and meaningful. I was just concerned that I would not get the opportunity to get the absolute most out of masonry. I suppose (as with many things) you get out of it what you put into it. If that is indeed the case, it certainly IS for me.

The only other difficulty: I've already attempted to contact a masonic temple close to where I live, in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada: "Joseph A Hearn Lodge No 685 of The Grand Lodge of Ancient Free & Accepted Masons of Canada in the Province of Ontario." They even have a website: www.torontomasons.com.

I sent them an e-mail, through "ask a mason" . . . per the ask 1 to be 1 catchphrase, but no one has replied. That was about three days ago. I also called them several times. No answer. I drove to the house at night and left a message. I checked in this morning and the message was still sticking partly out of the mailbox as I had left it. I assume it's because summer's here and things are slower?

In any case, I will to continue to try.

Thanks again for setting me straight, and for the offer to get in touch with you through u2u.

:-)



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 08:10 PM
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[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 08:27 PM
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Ummm Mason = a shortened version of Freemason. There is no difference.



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
I sent them an e-mail, through "ask a mason" . . . per the ask 1 to be 1 catchphrase, but no one has replied. That was about three days ago. I also called them several times. No answer. I drove to the house at night and left a message. I checked in this morning and the message was still sticking partly out of the mailbox as I had left it. I assume it's because summer's here and things are slower?


Despite the previous posters vicious paranoia (and yes, Esther, you are anti-Masonic, whether you want to admit it or not), you've got the reason in one.

Lodges in Canada do not meet July and August. Pure and simple. I am in Edmonton, Alberta, so I can tell you this from experience. I'm afraid you'll have to wait until September. Another point you should keep in mind is that getting initiated can take some time, depending on your "target" Lodge's schedule. Usually, you shouldn't have to wait more than four months, if summer does not intervene. I had to wait six myself, but I don't regret that. It gave me time to thing, and be sure that I was doing the right thing.



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 08:40 PM
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esther:

Hehe, you ARE irascible, aren't you?


I've been interested in the Freemasons for a long time, now. I used to study the crusades a great deal, although it never came up in my Univ. history courses (I'm a Classics/Theology major, focusing in particular on Roman history.) I'd read about the Templars and their hero, Jacques De Molay, etc. All very interesting, with alot of sex appeal. Somehow, the term "Freemason" would always pop up, so I decided to find out about them. I learned the history, alot of the mythology, and I wondered what the reality was.

I've been looking for new experiences recently, new people to meet, something that is meaningful. I have plenty of friends, but Freemasonry seems to offer a "club" atmosphere where ther is a free xchange of ideas and where people take each other seriously. Yes, there are benefits, but it works both ways, it would appear. The volounteer/charity work is a good thing, and with the masons it looks like I can involve myself in that on several levels. Also, there is the LEARNING. Freemasonry purports to have important lessons to teach, perhaps knowledge about humanity that I could not otherwise learn. It looks like an opportunity to learn about ourselves. I don;t really know, but I'm curious and I have an open mind. So, I'll join and find out.

By the way, about the "exclusivity factor": Sure. I'll admit it. I've worked hard and I'm dedicated to a particular set of values that have seen me through thus far. I'd like to meet like-minded people who are successful and who KNOW what it is to improve their own lives and the lives of others. I suppose it's nice to know that what goes on is private, that we help each other, that there is a place to go that you can call your own. I see no problem with that.

Well, that's what I THINK it's all about, based on what the masons here have to say. I'll learn for myself soon enough.

The fragile sensibilities of wives and girlfriends and others who might like to monopolize men's time and penises might be unhappy wth such an organization, and . . . . . . we understand.




(all in good fun, esther.)



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 09:53 PM
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[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by esther
LTD: No, my thing is, why do so many people think you have to be in some sort of club to get anything out of life?
Because life is about relationships, and learning by yourself is imposible.


Reasonably intelligent people with good hearts and a lot to offer can and do find ways to contribute without feeling the need to be part of the Borg (oops) I mean, Officical Collective.
Really? How is that? If not in Masonry, then a church, if not a church, then a group of friends, if not friends, work, if not work, school, if not school, your a hermit. Reasonably intelligent people might do that, but Intelligent people know to become greater you need others.


btw, a king that gives things to his followers isn't slavery, it's called payment
.

[edit on 6-8-2004 by Darktalon]

[edit on 6-8-2004 by Darktalon]



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 12:43 AM
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This thread has been of some interest to me. Some of the other ATS threads on Freemasonry have been rather hard for me to follow, probably because the ones I read seemed to be more about lodges, rituals, & "levels", if you get my drift.

My father was a mason, as was his father before him, & I've no idea how many generations before that. He was a Scot, but worked in several countries overseas, & I can remember my mother buying masonic aprons at some special Glasgow store, probably for the o'seas lodges he attended. He observed the "rules of secrecy" regarding initiation & other rituals, despite frequent ribbing from my mother about some goat or other.

After his death, I felt I should find out more about the organisation he was so committed to. I read "Born in Blood" [which I hear has been debunked], then "The Brotherhood", & both were so contradictory to each other, that I gave the whole idea away, & now can barely remember what I read in either of them, it was so long ago.

One point that's been mentioned here still interests me - only academically, I should add. I seem to remember my father telling me that Freemasonry was pretty well non-denominational as long as the intending member believed in some "Supreme Deity". Now I find that this also includes belief in the Trinity.

So does this mean in fact that Freemasonry is open to members of the Christian religion only? I'm not knocking this if it does - I'm just curious. And are agnostics [not talking atheists here, for there is a difference as I'm sure you know] - are agnostics automatically excluded from seeking membership?



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 02:11 AM
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To be a mason, a man has to profess a belief in a supreme being and the immortality of the soul, regardless of how he considers or knows g-d. This means that a Christian, a pagan (whatever the heck THAT means) a wiccan, a shintoist, a buddhist, a muslim, a brahman can be a mason, as can a deist.

Masonry does not teach religious faith. It accepts any good man that believes in g-d, and teaches us morality and the importance of a moral and upright life. Masonry provides us with role models, and a framework in which to enjoy the company of like minded men.

Freemasonry is not about making anyone else into something, it is about making YOURSELF a better man, and aiding each other toward that goal.

By the way, there is no debunking to do on "Born in Blood" by John Robinson. It is his opinion based on his research into the peasants revolt and what conclusions he came to as a result of his research. I tend to agree with many of his assertions, but not all. Another great book by the same author is "Pilgrims Journey", and is essentially a debunking of all the lies that are told about Freemasonry by religious zealots and other generally underinformed folks.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by theron dunn
To be a mason, a man has to profess a belief in a supreme being and the immortality of the soul, regardless of how he considers or knows g-d. This means that a Christian, a pagan (whatever the heck THAT means) a wiccan, a shintoist, a buddhist, a muslim, a brahman can be a mason, as can a deist.




I can understand the requirement of belief in a supreme being & the immortality of the soul, because Freemasonry is a centuries-old organisation, so I guess that agnostics just didn't enter the equation then, and tradition would therefore not countenance them now. That's fair enough, I think I can appreciate the tradition involved in this aspect.

I know that teaching of religion or dogma isn't part of Freemasonry. But maybe I'm confused about the seeming membership requirement of accepting the Trinity. I'm pretty hazy where theology stuff is concerned, but I thought that belief in the Trinity was pretty well confined to the Christian religion? thus eliminating Buddhists etc from Freemasonry membership? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm just trying to find out where this Trinity business fits in.

Can't remember where I read that "Born in Blood" had been debunked, not that it matters really, cos I doubt I'm ready yet to read another book on the history of Freemasonry. I made the mistake of reading up a little about the Knights Templar, & their history of persecution & martyrdom was absolutely horrific.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 02:58 AM
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I am weary of this mason rites and lodges, as their is an initial iniation and it could be anything.

Also I met the black masons and was not welcomed as an outsider, which I find rude and very unwelcoming, when my grandfather was a 33rd degree mason.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 04:24 AM
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EternalLeaderof Truth, I fail to see how your professed interest has any relevance to the topic in hand.

Lest this seem a little harsh, I base my opinion on the fact that you have opened a thread that deals with your utter disillusionment and resignation from Freemasonry.. I could be wrong, but I regarded this thread here as a forum for those seeking information on the organisation, & not for others with an axe to grind about it.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by Bastet


I know that teaching of religion or dogma isn't part of Freemasonry. But maybe I'm confused about the seeming membership requirement of accepting the Trinity. I'm pretty hazy where theology stuff is concerned, but I thought that belief in the Trinity was pretty well confined to the Christian religion? thus eliminating Buddhists etc from Freemasonry membership? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm just trying to find out where this Trinity business fits in.



You're incorrect in your assumption that you have to be a Christian or believe in the Trinity to be a mason.
There may be some orders that require some sort of religion behind you but the Masonry under United Grand Lodge of England & Wales merely requires that you believe in a Supreme Being.
Freemasonry is open to men of any religion.

An example: If you visit an Israeli Lodge you will find Jewish masons sitting next to their Muslim brethren.





[edit on 8-8-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 04:54 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up, Leveller. On looking back through this thread, I see that I misread Alex Kennedy's post, where he mentioned just one Masonic Lodge that requires belief in the Trinity.

This is what made me wonder about Buddhists & Muslims becoming Masons. Mea culpa!

Well, I feel I've learned a little here. My eyes glaze over when talk of initiation & other rites are mentioned, & I fail to understand why so many folk focus on those.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by Bastet
My eyes glaze over when talk of initiation & other rites are mentioned, & I fail to understand why so many folk focus on those.


Most focus on those, because they are the "secrets" of masonry, so everyone wants to know them. The rest and truth of masonry is out there for all to see if they just search. I would say, they are kinda like RATS of ATS. Everyone wants to save the points and get in there. When they do see it, it is neat, but it is not the TOP SECRET site that will change the world.



posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Bastet
telling me that Freemasonry was pretty well non-denominational as long as the intending member believed in some "Supreme Deity". Now I find that this also includes belief in the Trinity.


I'm the one who caused this misunderstanding, so I should clear it up. I applied for an appendant body (NOT a Masonic Lodge, but rather a completely separate organisation that requires you to be a Mason to join, but which is NOT Masonry per se) called the Masonic Knights Templar. Regular Masonry, and the vast, vast, majority of appendant bodies are completely non-sectarian... you can be of any religion, as long as you believe in a supreme being (I interpret this as meaning that no, an agnostic cannot join, since they don't believe in a supreme being, only in their own doubt). The Masonic Knights Templar, however, require one to be some kind of Christian. Simple.

[edit on 8-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]




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