Originally posted by B.Morrison

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
I'd probably agree with that quote, in the sense that we all have certain levels of pathological issues to deal with....having none at all would basically mean you weren't human!

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0110010000001100001001000000...error....warning...does not compute...
critical shutdown in level 3 left frontal complex...eroooor....shhhutdo0own..1..1m1nant....
1100010011010010110111001100001011100100111100100100000011011010110
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but seriously though I just had a thought,
when people are tested for schizophrenia what standards are they measured against?

here's my angle -
say a schizophrenic person goes in for the test and is measured against a standard which is based on an average from a pool of people who don't have schizoprenic minds.

How then can one appropriately evaluate the effects of schizophrenia on 'the mind' (as a general term) if the "thing" which is being termed schizophrenia can only happen to schizophrenic minds.

This leads me to another question which is how can we know that what we are deeming extreme levels of pathology attributed with what we term schizophrenics, is indeed extreme at all for someone with schizophrenia.

In other words while we may know that a 'normal' mind would be extremely pathological attempting to function as a schizophrenic mind would; how do we know that schizophrenic minds don't have the same levels of pathology as a normally functioning mind & that its not the scale by which we are measuring the minds instead which is incorrect.

I think I'm going to dig around a bit and see what I can find out with regards to the tests/evaluations & how its all done, whether my theory has legs or not..should be interesting.

Peace,
-Bob

edit on 10/6/11 by B.Morrison because: (no reason given)

Well all I can say is that among those I've known with Schizophrenia there was never any question about them being mentally disturbed. It was an obvious thing that affected their ability to live a normal life. Sort of like when you meet someone and they freak you out, and you go "wow....that person is not right in the the head" .

Though there are of course different levels of schizophrenia...normally though you hear voices telling you you're a bad person...you have vivid delusions....that sort of thing.

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75

Originally posted by B.Morrison

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
I'd probably agree with that quote, in the sense that we all have certain levels of pathological issues to deal with....having none at all would basically mean you weren't human!

01110100011010000110100101110011001000000110100101110
0110010000001100001001000000...error....warning...does not compute...
critical shutdown in level 3 left frontal complex...eroooor....shhhutdo0own..1..1m1nant....
1100010011010010110111001100001011100100111100100100000011011010110
01010111001101110011011000010110011101100101......



but seriously though I just had a thought,
when people are tested for schizophrenia what standards are they measured against?

here's my angle -
say a schizophrenic person goes in for the test and is measured against a standard which is based on an average from a pool of people who don't have schizoprenic minds.

How then can one appropriately evaluate the effects of schizophrenia on 'the mind' (as a general term) if the "thing" which is being termed schizophrenia can only happen to schizophrenic minds.

This leads me to another question which is how can we know that what we are deeming extreme levels of pathology attributed with what we term schizophrenics, is indeed extreme at all for someone with schizophrenia.

In other words while we may know that a 'normal' mind would be extremely pathological attempting to function as a schizophrenic mind would; how do we know that schizophrenic minds don't have the same levels of pathology as a normally functioning mind & that its not the scale by which we are measuring the minds instead which is incorrect.

I think I'm going to dig around a bit and see what I can find out with regards to the tests/evaluations & how its all done, whether my theory has legs or not..should be interesting.

Peace,
-Bob

edit on 10/6/11 by B.Morrison because: (no reason given)

Well all I can say is that among those I've known with Schizophrenia there was never any question about them being mentally disturbed. It was an obvious thing that affected their ability to live a normal life. Sort of like when you meet someone and they freak you out, and you go "wow....that person is not right in the the head" .

Though there are of course different levels of schizophrenia...normally though you hear voices telling you you're a bad person...you have vivid delusions....that sort of thing.

Yea i brought this up in another thread but Dr John Hall who is a expert in the field of direct energy weapons said that if you hear voices in your head and you question "why am i hearing this it's not right" and try and find a logical conclusion as to why this is happening to you your probably not schizophrenic because if you were you wouldn't be looking for logical conclusions as to why this is happening to you, you would just assume that hearing voices is normal and listen to them and so on, so that's one of the tells between the victims of voice to skull technology and people that are really schizophrenic...

Of course when people start being attacked with these weapons they freak out at first in most cases, like i said demanding answers and such but that's a normal human reaction considering the circumstances...

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
Well all I can say is that among those I've known with Schizophrenia there was never any question about them being mentally disturbed. It was an obvious thing that affected their ability to live a normal life. Sort of like when you meet someone and they freak you out, and you go "wow....that person is not right in the the head" .
Though there are of course different levels of schizophrenia...normally though you hear voices telling you you're a bad person...you have vivid delusions....that sort of thing.

that's an interesting reply & I can see what you mean about how someone can freak you out.

I think there's more to schizophrenia then we have discovered though & that treatments can be improved.

For e.g, the message a schizophrenic tries to communicate might not be schizophrenic at all but the delivery is. If they thought long enough & the right way about the message they were trying to communicate maybe they could state it in a more 'understandable' way...

I may not be explaining well (ironic) but its kind of like the difference between saying:
"you know... tvs no good for you.....you should stop watching it....(stare intensely & expectantly)....you know the ultra low waves...?..the ulf....dangerous stuff man....I'm not kidding..."

or saying something like:
"you know I saw an interesting documentary the other day..(wait for reaction)..it was pretty disturbing really, it was about a Canadian doctor who did these awful experiments on his patients for the government & it was kept secret until recently....(assess level of interest)....yes its not pleasant but its certainly an eye opening watch, I can burn a copy for you if you'd like..."

I think there are probably approaches that could be taken to the problems of schizophrenia that would dilute the condition to unnoticeable levels, and if that is the case, is that person still schizophrenic? surely that would be preferable to tax paid med's & pension.

Someone I used to be friends with has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and is on meds & a disability pension,

on the one hand I think good he's getting the help he needs...even though its a chemical dampener which may never address the roots of the problems.

on the other I think that he smoked too much pot, was unemployed for too long, had a less than supportive family, had no one to talk to & quit pot - got back on it again big time & woke the next day having a panic attack and that none of those things put together equal schizophrenia. I'm almost inclined to think that schizophrenia was the easy way out for those who had to deal with him.

The thing that makes me think its possible he does indeed have it & need his meds or counseling is that he got heavily into "the matrix trilogy' - not the movies but the 3 disinformation packed books by Val someone or other about aliens & secret government projects. The books are illogical & false but he got hooked line & sinker. No matter how much rational discussion or even showing him the scam watch articles on the authors would convince him of even the possibility that the books were wrong, this & he was often suspicious of me & his other friends.

The other thing I want to talk about is to do with voices in the head which is a symptom you mentioned.

Have you heard that different personality types relate experiences & store memories differently to others? that there is such a thing as people with a predominantly auditory memory & others with predominantly visual memory?

its why people will tend to say things like "that sounds like fun" and other people say "that looks like fun" and there's a 3rd 'doing' type of person who say "that would be fun", there are obviously moments in conversation that call for any of these but you'll find that the people wired to whichever of the 3 will tend to describe things in sounds, vision or 'doing' regardless of whether it 'fits' the conversation or not.

due to this peculiar 'thing' some people would see vivid scenes in their minds and others would hear the sound of their own voice describing scenes in their mind like a vividly descriptive book or as music.

I also have heard a theory that the widespread belief that god was talking to people in the middle ages was due to the lack of a bit of brain flesh that bridges the 2 sides of the brain which apparently we have now. The theory is that because the people back then were missing this part of their brain the 2 sides couldn't communicate via the bridge and that the voices people heard were one side of their brains in dialogue with the other.

these are a couple of things I can think that account for voices in the head which aren't schizophrenia. There's an interesting TED talk on you tube were a brain scientist describes her own stroke in vivid detail & scientifically accurate terms, its a fascinating story if your interested in this sort of thing, I think voices in the head are mentioned.

To get back on topic though, if your family was in one way or another involved in illegal people tampering/trafficking & you were possibly being toyed with I imagine it would probably be hard not to consider what would normally be deemed schizophrenic behavior & thoughts.

Thanks for reading..
Peace,
-Bob

Originally posted by King Seesar
I don't want to get off topic here because what TI's go through is indeed real and people do get attacked with advanced technology for experimentation ect ect...

But do you think that India has a higher success rate in treating schizophrenia maybe because of there religious/spiritual beliefs of Hinduism and apply what they have learned through that to the treatment of the problem???

Whether it has any basis in religious beliefs or not the point as I see it is that people are people and by ensuring that there is a natural environment as opposed to a sterile and impersonal one. Sociality is key to human existence and should never be compromised in borderline mental cases. Some times stress can get to the best of us and if a person is diagnosed based on a stressful timeline instead of the entirety of experience than there is some lacking in the diagnosis.

As well...I am now questioning the study on semantics alone because schizophrenia is a very difficult diagnosis in ideal circumstances anyway...and I have considered that the entire 'illness' is contrived to hide experimentation. If someone is ranting and raving seemingly delusional expressions, chances are that there is a stress factor and that should be the focal point. Attempts to comprehend the rhetoric of someone who may not know legalese should be the focal point rather than assuming some off the wall mental disorder.

How many people have had emotional fluctuations in their lives? Every single one of us. How many are taught how to deal with that? How many are taught how to begin to understand their own reactions? So why are there many who deign to interpret the reactions of others?

Edit to Add - Welcome back, B Morrison.