Arizona Wins Immigration Suit!

Originally posted by haarvik
If they receive public assistance, yes indeed! If I have to pass a drug screening to get a job, then they should have to pass one to get assistance!

How would you know if they receive public assistance before they are detained?

Did you read what I asked? You are saying you think cops should stop random people based on appearance, check if they receive assistance of some kind, then drug test them? That is the America you want?

People. People. The good thing about this ruling:

By a 5-3 vote, the court said Thursday that federal immigration law gives states the authority to impose sanctions on employers who hire unauthorized workers.

We don't have to track the little illegals down.... they have to come to us to get jobs. Should be easy as Pie.

They walk in, speak NO englisn, have NO paperwork needed for a job and NO residence? Slam dunk.

"Senoir, can you please stand right over here for a few minutes... I'll be right back." (door closes-click). A few minutes later, the local traveling Illegal Squad stops by and assist the guy into the nice tax paid for holding van and then off to the Warmer regions of Central America.

Consider it a gift. If we catch you again, you will be staying in Sheriff Joe's pink underwear laiden facilities. Maybe even let them stay there a few days to get the feel for it. The third time... well, there won't be a third time-for most.

Thank God for a Supreme Court majority that GET'S IT.

Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor, all Democratic appointees, dissented.

And, thanks Obama for putting your buddy in there that pretty much has to exclude herself from the big cases right now. Good thinking.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by macman

 

that makes me laugh, how many "americans" work under the table... or lie about thier ID's...

"Many are associated with gangs" are you kidding, please post your source thank you.

The argricultural sector is suffering, and no one wants to work there, and the government does't want to help the farmers by subsidising them to pay for workers, which means that America has to BUY MORE FOOD, from other countries, where they pay their workers next to nothing, and have food shortages.

But as long as they are not working in your backyard, and far away out of sight it's alright.

Ok, point by point, here you go.
1. Yes I am sure that there is a percentage of US Citizens that work under the table or have fake IDs. But, the percentage is higher for Illegals, as they are here illegally and need to do so to get money.
2. Please go look at the stats from any LE agency, Border Patrol or even stories told by illegals as to how they got here. Either paying a gang or coyote to move them illegally here, some will pay money while others will mule drugs across the border as payment. Some will venture across the Southern Border desert, which it is common knowledge that maps are provided by gangs, the Mexican Govt and No Border Groups. I am sure there is a low percentage that don't have any interaction with Gangs, but the stats and percentages are low. I worked and live in AZ as a LEO there for numerous years. I heard the stories, read the reports and so on. I am not going to do your homework for you. The info is out there.
3. The agriculture industry will find others to do the work.
4. I had no idea that Canadian's had any say in how America runs its borders. I seem to remember that Canada has immigration laws as well.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by lifeissacred

 

Not immigrants. Illegal immigrants.
My family on both sides got their visas and came to this country. Even became citizens.
My wifes parents got green cards.

It's not an impossible task to come to this country legally.
Maybe it's not easy but not impossible.

Recently?

In what years did they immigrant legally?

1887 for my family. Are you implying there aren't people in this world who legally migrated to America?

Originally posted by Antiquated1

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Antiquated1

Originally posted by Evola
Hunting down and arresting criminals is not discrimination.

Would you advocate "hunting down and arresting" illegal drug users by stopping anyone that looks like they might be a drug user and detaining them until they pass a drug test?

Actually being under the influence is not the crime. So your logic does not apply.

I never said one thing about being under the influence. I specifically asked about an illegal activity. So your logic seems to be missing altogether.

You certainly said something about being uner the influence. If you didn't then what was that about you asking them if they should be detained until they passed a drug test?

it is infuriating to see comments like " illegals are people too"

like no kidding but so are the millions of legal american citizens who are out of work with no hope of income because some illegal is "entitled" to be here WHEN THEY ARE NOT!!!

going after the employers is a nice idea but really az has tried standing up to the feds ie obama and got slapped back down.

meanwhile in the us millions of illegals are astill coming to this country displacing legal americans and with those people come the murders rapists etc.

case in point todays news another new mexico rancher was murdered today right on the border and really

the usual suspects are the culprits all tho the pc crowd will scream and shout NO! it wasnt all the good little law breakers illegals.

blah blah blah i dont care if people disagree with that.

if you do then you condone screwing our own people for your morals which is really a lack of morals.

Originally posted by Becoming
You certainly said something about being uner the influence.

No, I did not. Not once. Please go back and read if you are this confused. I am not going to argue over what I wrote a page back when it is still there, unedited, for you to actually read.

Stop LYING.

If you didn't then what was that about you asking them if they should be detained until they passed a drug test?

Read the question. It is perfectly clear in how I asked it. Stop playing games. If you cannot answer it, do not bothre responding.

Dont just make stuff up to get around what I asked.

Not nice to lie.

Originally posted by Annee
Um gee - - do you think they're gonna target dark skin?

We have a northern border too.

Yes, but Canadians are happy in Canada and have no reason or desire to come here... well, except for some good health care (for now anyway) When Canadians do come here they actually go back home after their visit. It has nothing to do with skin color. The bill is designed to prevent employers from hiring all illegal immigrants. It just so happens that the vast majority of them in Arizona are Mexican or some other Hispanic nationality. It shouldn't be a problem at all, because all someone has to do is have proper documentation and proof that they are eligible to work in the US, just like I and everyone else with a job had to do.

reply to post by macman


We don't have a say, but I am allowed my opinion thanks bud.

As for our Immigration laws, yes we do have IM laws, but obviously the sitiation is different, and alot of americans come here illegally.

As for saying that the agricultural sector will find a way, I hope so.

I would think there would be a better way to deal with human beings, one day maybe you will face the same difficulties as those people you deem worthless.

I can understand that you have had a lot of interactions with the people, and thus become hardened to it.

The fact is that they are people, and they just want to not live in complete horrible poverty for thier entire lives.
Would you, would't you try to get to someplace where you have a chance of making life easier for yourself, your family.

Do you have children, wouldn't you try if you thought you could get them out of a life of poverty and discrimination, without much hope or education.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
Yes, but Canadians are happy in Canada and have no reason or desire to come here...

Really!?!?

No not really. They are just undetectable by appearance.

People look for work where ever they can find it.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
Its too bad that people just looking to work, and make better lives for themselves suffer so much discrimination.

I think its sad. They are people, not "Illegal Aliens".

You correct they are people but they are also illegal aliens in that they have come into the US illegally.

To use a logic problem...So while all illegal aliens are "people" all "people" are not illegal aliens.

To clarify, an immigrant is someone who comes to the US through the proper channels, in most cases to seek employment and as you say "to make their lives better".

An illegal immigrant is someone who breaks the law; comes into the country without going through the proper channels and in most cases commits identity theft or at least fraud to gain employment.

Regardless of the reasons behind a criminal activity or its altruistic nature or its human elements of emotion etc., it is still a criminal activity and illegal making the person committing it a criminal.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
The bill is designed to prevent employers from hiring all illegal immigrants. It just so happens that the vast majority of them in Arizona are Mexican or some other Hispanic nationality. It shouldn't be a problem at all, because all someone has to do is have proper documentation and proof that they are eligible to work in the US, just like I and everyone else with a job had to do.

Yes - I know the bill is designed to apply to all illegal immigrants.

Do you live in Arizona?

reply to post by KingAtlas


Nobody deemed them worthless. They deemed them criminals, which they are.

I came from horrible poverty and was able to climb out of it legally. Being poor is no excuse to break the law no matter where you come from.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by macman

 

We don't have a say, but I am allowed my opinion thanks bud.

As for our Immigration laws, yes we do have IM laws, but obviously the sitiation is different, and alot of americans come here illegally.

As for saying that the agricultural sector will find a way, I hope so.

I would think there would be a better way to deal with human beings, one day maybe you will face the same difficulties as those people you deem worthless.

I can understand that you have had a lot of interactions with the people, and thus become hardened to it.

The fact is that they are people, and they just want to not live in complete horrible poverty for thier entire lives.
Would you, would't you try to get to someplace where you have a chance of making life easier for yourself, your family.

Do you have children, wouldn't you try if you thought you could get them out of a life of poverty and discrimination, without much hope or education.

Point by point destruction again.

1. It is always different huh? That has got to be my most favorite retort from Liberals. "Yeah, but that's different".
If people were crossing illegally into Canada to do work, stealing/assuming Canadian ID to do so, I think you would have a problem as well.
2. Dealing with Humans that break the immigration law is as such. The law states the action to take. Easy.
3. Yes they are people, that is nice an all. The current economic status of their home country is not my concern. It is there's to deal with, not I and not you either. Just like my economic status is neither your concern or problem.
4. If taking a family to Canada would improve my life, and the only means to do so was illegally, I guess I would take the risk. But, if and when caught, crying foul is ridiculous.

If you don't have the problem with them, by all means open your door and let them in. Petition your Govt to do so. I don't care. It's not my place to tell Canada how to operate.

reply to post by neo96


They are your own people.

You are a human, they are human.

Saying that they are displacing americans from working is a joke.

They have been doing these same jobs for years and years.

It has only recently become such a big issue because unemployment is on the rise, and it's not because of the people coming from across the border,

It's because of the manufacturing sector has been dissasembled and moved to china.

Without a strong manufacturing sector, you get high unemployment, and low paying dead end jobs.

The farmers don't have the subsities to pay for workers, and the cost of agricultural developpement is skyrocketing.

In the long run chasing down illegals in this way will deter american from recovering from its current situation.

Paying for food, because farmers have to quit the business, will eventually erode away the foundations already weakend by the current circmstances affecting the american economy.

There used to be legal work programs. But some politician used it as a platform for taking American jobs.

With the extreme weather we've been having and loss of crops - - I hope there are enough legal migrant workers.

On paper Picante sauce made in New York looks good to those who aren't directly familiar to the real thing.

reply to post by macman


IM laws are there for a reason.

I don't discount the fact that there are important factors as for why the need for such laws exist.

Native americans once held all the land you now walk on. Illegal Immigrants came here and took it all, then told others they couldnt come in.

In retrospect, it would have been nice if they had these laws to keep out the first Ilegal Immigrants.

reply to post by KingAtlas


I am so sick and tired of the bleeding hearts championing the illegals I could puke!

So in your analogy because they want a better life it is ok for them to come here illegally, provide false documents to obtain employment, and in some cases even defraud the welfare system. But it's ok because he is a human being and just wants a better life, right?

Now let's apply that to an American. A family guy loses his job. Loses his home, his car and everything he has worked for. He gets disgusted and robs a bank. No one is hurt or killed. He gets some cash to help his family out.

Now, where is the difference? And don't try semantics on this...breaking the law is breaking the law no matter what. You justify them being here illegally to better their situation. The American did the same thing.

Is he immune to prosecution because he did it for the same reason the illegal did? No, most likely he would be facing 15-20 in the pen. Yet the illegal who committed a crime for the same reasons is pitied and allowed to continue. Justify that one!

Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by macman

 

IM laws are there for a reason.

I don't discount the fact that there are important factors as for why the need for such laws exist.

Native americans once held all the land you now walk on. Illegal Immigrants came here and took it all, then told others they couldnt come in.

In retrospect, it would have been nice if they had these laws to keep out the first Ilegal Immigrants.

Really, that's all you got?
American's took it from the Native Americans and so on.

If you respected immigration laws, then this would be a non issue. Yet, due to the idea you have that America is bad, we did this and we did that, you look at it as retribution. I do believe that Canada was not always inhabited by Canadians. Maybe before casting stones, you should look to yourself first.

I suppose that your next retort will fall in the "Well, AZ used to belong to Mexico" crap.

Again, if you want them, open your door and get your Govt to have them come in.

reply to post by haarvik


Crimes differ in intesity.

By your analogy, which is weak, Illegaly migrating is equal to robbing a bank, therefor jaywalking is equal to stealing a car.

I am not championing anything, I am just trying to say that they are people, human beings.

Having empathy for the situation of other human beings makes you sick,
I feel for you, and I hope that someone empathises with you if you have hardships.

It's an invisible line.

Neither you nor I created these lines, but they must be defended.

These lines make you a great american, and them worthess mexicans.

As for trying to get into the country legally, most of them aren't enven slightly educated.
The legal process of getting into the country can be difficult when there is a lack of basic understanding of the very legal process, I know it's not an excuse.

I am not blind, nor ignorant.