The North Pole Is The South Pole: Communication Breakdown

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by CLPrime

 

Yes, but...

Why did magnetic poles get defined opposite geographic poles. It would seem to be arbitrary. Electromagnetic north could have just as well been named south. Instead they just had to go and confuse everyone.

They just named it the northpole because the northpole of a compass points that way(to take away confusion)
That what they told us 20 years ago in school

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by CLPrime

 

Well sure. Now it is. But 750,000 years ago it wasn't.

Ah, Nailed it. I've known a little about the underwater basalt flows and the reversal records on the sea floor (basalt is it?).. I've even came across some creditable sources that suggest a reversal speed of up to 6 degrees per day. That's probably rather controversial though I'm sure..

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by CLPrime

 

Well sure. Now it is. But 750,000 years ago it wasn't.

But, then, who was telling direction or making maps 750,000 years ago? The first orientation for maps was with East (then called "oriens"...actually, from where we get "orientation") on the top, rather than North. This was well within the last 750,000 years.
East, as a direction, is aligned with the rising sun. So, this was the central direction. Since we've started not relying so much on the sun, moon, and stars for direction, we've turned to a more Earth-based definition of direction, with North at the top...because that's the way the 'north' end of a compass needle points.

In relation to the galactic plane, the equator is actually closer to north or south, as our solar system is at about a 60º tilt from the galactic plane. So north or south doesn't have any real bearing, but it would make it easier to send a space ship north of the Milky Way center, since it is closer to our equator that makes it easier for us to reach LEO, if we just reach earth escape velocity at the right time, or we would go south.

So what is really north? It is left of east, right of your direction around your star, but you star may not be aligned with its galaxy, its just a word like counter clockwise, so you can tell time.

Hold a CD player, then go on an amusement ride that spins you around in your chair, then that ride tilts at a 60º angle, you will get some idea of how unimportant north is to that CD. Take it further and launch that whole amusement park on down some way, very fast, well I'm done. (This cold I have is getting to my head, sorry).

Originally posted by Phage
Why did magnetic poles get defined opposite geographic poles. It would seem to be arbitrary. Electromagnetic north could have just as well been named south. Instead they just had to go and confuse everyone.

Wouldn't people be confused either way?

Right now, if I take a bar magnet and let it hang from a string, the north pole is going to point north, right? Now that shouldn't be too confusing until you ask "why does it point north?" then the answer is because it's pointing to the south magnetic pole.

But let's say 750,000 years ago (or the next time the magnetic poles flip) and the magnetic north pole is in the geographic north, then a bar magnet's north pole will be pointing south. No matter which arbitrary decision was made, the compass will point in the opposite direction since opposites attract.

So I don't see it as such a bad thing that the north pole of a bar magnet points North, that's no more confusing than the north pole of the bar magnet pointing south, is it?

The thing I'm still confused about is what the definition of "North" is for other planets. It seems the astronomers at one time defined it as above the ecliptic (so same as Earth's north, more or less), but then they had second thoughts and wanted to redefine "north" as relative to the direction of rotation of a planet so the sun will always rise in the East, but I think there's still some confusion about that, and the overall definition of "north" in the solar system for specific planets (like Venus) is ambiguous. Ask 2 different people and you may get 2 different answers.

www.idialstars.com...

By convention we think of north as "up" and south as "down." We tend to view the Earth's North Pole as being "above" the ecliptic (Earth's orbital plane) and the South Pole as being "below" it. But since Venus' North Pole points "down" while its South Pole points "up," Venus throws a monkey wrench into this accustomed way of looking at things. Because the north pole of a planet -- by definition -- belongs to the hemisphere that rotates counter-clockwise, Venus' North Pole points south of the ecliptic.

However, after consulting a number of astronomers, I'm not so sure there's a firm concensus on the definition of "north pole." Apparently, some feel a planet's north pole is the one that points north of the ecliptic, regardless of the planet's rotational direction. ...

NOTE: Years after having written this article, I read the following on page 299 of More Mathematical Astronomy Morsels by Jean Meeus: "In 1970 the International Astronomical Union (IAU) decided that the rotational pole of a planet or satellite that lies on the north side of the invariable plane of the solar system shall be called north. (This plane is close to that of the ecliptic.) We regret this decision and would prefer that the north pole be the one above which an observer sees rotation in the direct (counterclockwise) sense. Thus, for instance, Venus' north pole would be south of the ecliptic. Our definition does not depend on a particular reference frame, eliminates negative rotation rates and simplifies the mathematics."

I don't know if the IAU ever reversed its definition or not but apparently both definitions of North are used. It seems like we need to make up our minds on a definition. And yes there is apparently some confusion.

In the "northern hemisphere", where cartography began and magnetism was discovered, lodestones when suspended as mentioned above, orient themselves "pointing" in a particular direction. Again, as mentioned earlier, "North" has origins in Germanic language and means left, down, or "left of the rising sun".

Therefore, it stands to reason that since maps were traditionally oriented with the rising sun appearing from right side, if one were standing facing the rising sun, to the person's left would be north. Thus north would be up at the top of the map and the end of the magnet pointing in that direction would be called north.

reply to post by rstregooski


Hhhmmm just swap the N & S labels on all the magnets and give the face of each compass a 180 degree spin. Problem fixed and now all westerners become eastern Orientals
I wonder if that would reverse racism