Understanding Creation.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I don't know.

Neither do I.

What we recognize as the "Big Bang" could be a cyclical event. And I have no opinion on where the universe's energy came from. Any rational person would admit that nobody knows the answer to these mysteries right now.

Maybe no one knows, but that doesn't stop people from putting forth ideas, even when there is no evidence for them. And there's nothing wrong with that.

But some claim they do know the source of that energy, and the source of the universe, and the source of life and they all attribute it to the activities of a deity. That's theoretically possible, though to date there's no evidence pointing that way and no rational reason to suspect such a hypothesis as truthful and accurate.

You just suggested something yourself that has no evidence to support it, namely that the "big bang" is cyclical. That's where philosophy and theoretical physics come in. This is the philosophy forum anyway.

Originally posted by AlphaZero

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
But, I'll pose to you the same question: can you show me an example of consciousness existing somewhere other than a mind?

I'm not sure how to answer that.

I can give you somewhere to start.

Synchronicity, as "discovered" by Carl Jung. Actually he just coined the term, but the idea has existed in numerous traditions. The basic idea is that the entire universe has disembodied sentience to it and it causes certain things to align in peoples' lives that defy probabilities, etc. I have a book Jung wrote on this and he went so far as to present statistical data, but we all know how statistics can be spun any way you want them by including or rejecting various variables, or claiming sampling bias or any number of things. The anecdotal evidence he provided was more profound to me, or if you experience these kinds of things in your personal life.


en.wikipedia.org...

Synchronicity is the experience of two or more events, that are apparently causally unrelated or unlikely to occur together by chance, that are observed to occur together in a meaningful manner. The concept of synchronicity was first described by Swiss psychologist Carl Gustav Jung in the 1920s.[1]

The concept does not question, or compete with, the notion of causality. Instead, it maintains that just as events may be grouped by cause, they may also be grouped by their meaning. Since meaning is a complex mental construction, subject to conscious and unconscious influence, not every correlation in the grouping of events by meaning needs to have an explanation in terms of cause and effect.

Maybe it's worth noting that Carl Jung was friends with Albert Einstein and actually came up with this idea after discourses with Einstein. Einstein believed a space-time singularity was possible at the limits of the speed of light, where everything becomes condensed to an infinitely thin horizon and essentially exists in the same physical space. Slowing down from the speed of light simply expands this into the spatial dimensions, and one dimension of time, that we are all familiar with. Carl Jung, being the psychologist that he was, obviously thought to try to fit the conscious and subconscious into all of this, and the conclusion he arrived at was that the ultimate source of the conscious/subconscious must be the same source of all physicality (the singularity that exists at the speed of light mentioned earlier). He goes into a lot of other correlations, and it's deep stuff, but it's worth the read.


If possible, try to go straight for Jung's own writing. It's very often misinterpreted, and the best shot you have at any accurate interpretation is to get it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by NorEaster

 

If you believe that energy is intellegint, how do you believe that energy gets its intellegence? Or how do i understand what intellegence is to energy? Is it direction?

edit on 10-6-2011 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

Energy isn't intelligent. I never said it is.

Dynamic information is not energy. It's information. Actually it's an event/information hybrid that is created as the brain works to configure and reconfigure residual information (some stored as memory, and some perceived as an external data stream - eyes, ears, nose, mouth, touch) with DNA directives to "generate" matrix system management data bursts. The fact that these bursts are directive, and created as integral to an ongoing event trajectory (that trajectory being the brain's management of the survival effort of the matrix whole that is the body) makes these bursts dynamic and determinative. Anything that has a brain "generates" these data bursts, but most brains are not capable of "conscious" thought (or rumination, which includes a sense of self). On this planet, only the human brain appears to be capable of this, but language makes this capacity a lot more obvious, so it may be too soon to make a blanket statement on this.

The case of the human brain, its intense level of sophistication (capable of creating bursts with robust rumination and powerful sense of unique identity and self) results in these data bursts being what we have determined to be intelligent and conscious. Somewhere along the way - as the human brain evolved over hundreds of thousands of years - a point was reached when its configuration capability included data bursts that were self aware, and not merely responsive to stimuli. This provided the corporeal matrix whole with the capacity to plan, and not simply respond. A definite survival leg-up. This awareness of self was a game changer within the informational realm. Until then, consciousness (as we understand it) had never existed. This hybrid form of information - dynamic and capable of rumination, initiation and realization of self - is what we call Intellect. It's the physical human being, the dynamic informational being that simply did not exist until this tipping point change in the corporeal human brain created it.

As to how the eternal human being is created, since this is information, it never ceases to exist once it's been configured into identified existence. With each instant of the human brain's survival effort, these self aware bursts collect (like cells in a corporeal body) and the eternal human being develops and grows in experience and intellectual sophistication.

This entire process is reflected (as all event trajectories are) by the contextual environment's Residual Informational Continuum, and stored locally (for ease of reference and reapplication by the brain) within the brain's carbon structure. We refer to this as long and short term memory. This is not true fact information, since it's the experience of perception - an ongoing event trajectory in its own right - being represented as the fact of that experience. This is why the human memory is so prone to being inaccurate. Remembering memory is its own event trajectory, and each of these bits of the activity is stored as fact within the memory. It's amazing that we ever accurately remember anything, when you really consider all potentials.

Concerning the gathered holon mass of dynamic event/information hybrid bursts, it's aware, active, and focused on the business of corporeal existence (specifically at the physical point of short-term memory data stream input) as long as the brain is "feeding" it with new bursts. In fact, it's pretty rare that the focus is diverted from this effort, but as we all have been told at one time or another, it does happen. And when it does, we call it either a psychic episode, or if the person is religiously inclined, divine revelation. What it really is, is the diversion of conscious awareness of the gestational dynamic information mass' focus from the corporeal survival effort to the stuff that exists within the informational realm all around it at all times. Like "waking up" to its own physical realm and taking a look around before dropping back into its natural focus on the survival of the corporeal body and brain.

When the brain dies, this information mass is finally released into its existential realm, whole and fully developed. It didn't exist until the brain created it, but as information, it's eternal from then on. This is just a very bare-bones overview, but I hope it helps explain how this form of information comes into existence, and sort of suggests how it is that we've resorted to inventing things like spirit and soul and other explanations for what we've been aware of for quite a while.