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China warns U.S. debt-default idea is "playing with fire"

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posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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China warns U.S. debt-default idea is "playing with fire"


www.reuters.com

(Reuters) - Allowing a brief U.S. debt default to force government spending cuts is a "horrible idea" that could destabilize the world economy and sour already tense relations with big creditors like China, government officials and investors said on Wednesday.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, I haven't found it here or in other relevant forums. This is interesting news coming from China on warning that a US default is dangerous. Their concerns are well-founded given "A growing number of Republican lawmakers think a technical debt default might be a price worth paying if it gets the White House to accept deep spending cuts." Interesting that China appears so concerned as though they are the ones that are going to lose out. Default on the debt would probably be somewhere down the track, but I guess the dilemma is with the political arguing (and election bickering) going on over whether or not to raise the debt ceiling and the potential consequences of not doing so verses kicking the can down the road and printing more money.

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 06:52 AM
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Further to the above, please see link below to article posted under the Global Meltdown forum regarding a German rating agency having downgraded the credit rating of the US from AAA to AA.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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The reason Chine is so upset by this notion is it would hurt the value of US Treasurie,... China has unloaded 97% of their short term holdings. But they still have significant investments in long term which they will slowly divest...if we give them time.

Further, their economy is booming, but artificially so...that is why the Chinese Govt has been building massive cities with no one to live in them...it is a bubble waiting to burst, as long as they are building..it artificially shows growth.

Also, if we default...it will disrupt the world's economy and thus...China's economy. They have to have someone to buy all the stuff they are producing....once it starts backing up, the normal productivity cycle kicks in of cut backs...layoffs...plant closings...this will create a massive unrest in a new and emerging middle class in China...unrest...political unrest...China...which is still Communist, or at least terribly Fascists, does not like unrest..

Even more ominous, such moves by the US could be the unintended catalyst of a world war... the economic petri dish we live in is not so unlike the one the world lived in back in the 1920s and 1930s...

unstable economies, rise in social protests, shifting alliances, decline of old world empires...emergeance of new powers... fledgling militaries exerting themselves.....

Simply read the 1930s histories and exchange the names with todays geopolitical players....kinda scary.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by AlreadyGone
 


Cheers thanks for the rather enlightening post, which makes very good sense btw.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 08:36 AM
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Probably the most rational and best post ive ever read on ATS. Well done my friend.


Originally posted by AlreadyGone
The reason Chine is so upset by this notion is it would hurt the value of US Treasurie,... China has unloaded 97% of their short term holdings. But they still have significant investments in long term which they will slowly divest...if we give them time.

Further, their economy is booming, but artificially so...that is why the Chinese Govt has been building massive cities with no one to live in them...it is a bubble waiting to burst, as long as they are building..it artificially shows growth.

Also, if we default...it will disrupt the world's economy and thus...China's economy. They have to have someone to buy all the stuff they are producing....once it starts backing up, the normal productivity cycle kicks in of cut backs...layoffs...plant closings...this will create a massive unrest in a new and emerging middle class in China...unrest...political unrest...China...which is still Communist, or at least terribly Fascists, does not like unrest..

Even more ominous, such moves by the US could be the unintended catalyst of a world war... the economic petri dish we live in is not so unlike the one the world lived in back in the 1920s and 1930s...

unstable economies, rise in social protests, shifting alliances, decline of old world empires...emergeance of new powers... fledgling militaries exerting themselves.....

Simply read the 1930s histories and exchange the names with todays geopolitical players....kinda scary.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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China is very right to be worried, they still hold 1 trillion in treasuries, IF the US defaults on its interest payments it will be quite devastating. The US credit rating will instantly drop to at least a B rating, the dollar will take a huge hit and be devalued, this has a massive effect world wide.

For example, if the dollar is devalued by 20% ( a conservative estimate) that means the trillion dollar treasuries that china hold suddenly become worth 800 billion instead, that's a lot of money to lose overnight, and it is not just China that hold US treasuries, nearly every developed economy in the world does, that will cause panic, people will become desperate to offload the dollar as quick as they can, further driving down the dollars value and forcing it to be dropped as the worlds reserve currency.

A massive recession will follow, much worse than the crash of 2008, America will be really screwed big time, no one will accept the dollar any more as payment, and you have no gold reserves they were all sold off in 1934, it does not bear thinking about really

I do hope the Republicans don't force this issue, it will be catastrophic for the US and the rest of the world, such a deep recession will automatically be followed by a huge WW history tells us as much



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Even more ominous, such moves by the US could be the unintended catalyst of a world war... the economic petri dish we live in is not so unlike the one the world lived in back in the 1920s and 1930s...


The unemployment situation has already gone on longer than what happened in the great depression.

US economic policies and unfriendly business, manufacturing environment has enabled China's booming economy.

They are literally sucking the life out of the US economy, and our government has made it easy for them.

Seems that despite your claims, China's economy improves as the US fails.




posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by PrinceDreamer

I do hope the Republicans don't force this issue, it will be catastrophic for the US and the rest of the world, such a deep recession will automatically be followed by a huge WW history tells us as much


In a do or die situation, sometimes drastic measures are necessary. Besides, a new conventional war can have the benefit of reducing populations, and boosting the economy.


Something has to be done.

There is an awakening to the reality that China's rise to global supremacy will come only after the collapse of the USA. And their role in our fall will eventually be revealed.

If we don't change course soon, then we are doomed. China will suck the life out of the US economy, businesses, manufacturing (jobs) and a massive trade imbalance, combined with their ownership of massive amounts of US debt, will make that easy for them. When the time is right, a death blow will come... And China will be our new savior.

The new world order is going to be everything Chinese... in fact we're almost there now.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Even more ominous, such moves by the US could be the unintended catalyst of a world war... the economic petri dish we live in is not so unlike the one the world lived in back in the 1920s and 1930s...


The unemployment situation has already gone on longer than what happened in the great depression.

US economic policies and unfriendly business, manufacturing environment has enabled China's booming economy.

They are literally sucking the life out of the US economy, and our government has made it easy for them.

Seems that despite your claims, China's economy improves as the US fails.



That's because we haven't defaulted yet, and thus companies can borrow money to pay their employees who can buy Chinese goods.... But defaulting would... Eek.... Stop that



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Even more ominous, such moves by the US could be the unintended catalyst of a world war... the economic petri dish we live in is not so unlike the one the world lived in back in the 1920s and 1930s...


The unemployment situation has already gone on longer than what happened in the great depression.

US economic policies and unfriendly business, manufacturing environment has enabled China's booming economy.

They are literally sucking the life out of the US economy, and our government has made it easy for them.

Seems that despite your claims, China's economy improves as the US fails.



interesting but how can the chinese economy improve if nobody is buying their crap?? the billion or so chinese cant they are too poor which is why they work for 5 dollars a day. so will buy their crap? the Europeans? nah they are kind of busy trying to maintain a semblance or order. between Greece, Ireland and the other handful Scandinavian countries that are bankrupt the EU is trying not to implode let alone worry about whats going on with the US. trust me it all hinges on the US dollar once that goes and it will, lets be honest they just dont have a hope in hell of paying back the money they owe the FED the interest alone is killing them. what the hell is going to happen on the 2nd of august if the democrats dont have the votes to raise the debt ceiling



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Everybody is, not just the USA.


China is not seeking to only destroy, but to gain global supremacy.

China can't do that without knocking the USA out of that position.... And they are getting very close.



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Everybody is, not just the USA.


China is not seeking to only destroy, but to gain global supremacy.

China can't do that without knocking the USA out of that position.... And they are getting very close.


china is an artificially inflated economy. once America falls so too will china. it doesnt have the commerce to sustain itself. its a facist dictatorship and so it's people dont really have any rights. there are no unions. US official unemployment figures as of this morning was 9.2 % thats more people unemployed than the entire population of Australia. thats insane.



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by surrealist
 


Everything the US has done has been like playing with fire. What else is new? Something's going to be shot to hell whether or not the US pays back its debt.



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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To add to this discussion there is this just recently posted on BBC news. Was thinking of a new thread for it (no doubt someone will) but felt this thread was way more appropriate already.


Failure to raise the US debt ceiling could trigger another recession and throw millions out of work, President Barack Obama has said. Mr Obama is struggling to marshal support for a budget package that would include some $4tn (£2.5tn) of cuts. But ahead of renewed budget talks with Republicans on Monday, Mr Obama said the stalemate would be resolved within a "reasonable period of time". The US risks defaulting on its debts on 2 August, when the budget runs out.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Asking for a raise of of the debt roof just seems as daft as defaulting on the debt.. Just when, exactly, does anyone think this 'raising the roof' will end and the debts begin to get paid back (which will never happen).

This seems to be a no-win situation.. something has got to give



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Extralien
 


The current false spectacle has nothing to do with long term solutions for the problem of a bankrupt USA and everything to do with manoeuvring between Republicans / Democrats ahead of the next election.

The debt ceiling will be raised to kick the can a little further on, just in time.

Ahead of that its all just playing to the gallery by both sides.



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by TiM3LoRd

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Everybody is, not just the USA.


China is not seeking to only destroy, but to gain global supremacy.

China can't do that without knocking the USA out of that position.... And they are getting very close.


china is an artificially inflated economy. once America falls so too will china.


Why do you fail to see the rest of the world beyond the USA and China?

China is seeking to be the supreme global power.. The USA and the rest of the world under it.

Get it?

If not, no worries... Just wait and see.




posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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First I will apolagize, for not being in the same pedigree of the know it alls. What I am about to write will make no sense to anyone who know's it all. So please forgive my stupidity...


First of all, This whole thing about raising a ceiling in borrowing or raising a debt limit to keep spending, has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard the so called human beings that are on top of the food chain on this planet are discussing. To put it into little people terms, it would be like you looking at your credit card and seeing your about to max it out, and calling your credit card company and telling them hey I need you to let me spend another ten thousand dollars right now.. As if it was that simple.. As if their is no regulation no world bank saying um, no, we want our money... This story has to be one of the biggest smoke and mirror stories I have ever read, or heard about.. This whole political rhetoric bs, is just what it is, bs.. I mean if I remember correctly the interest alone is what is killing us in our deficit. If I had to guess, we are going to default.. The political rhetoric is just the way they want to play something that is going to happen. Also how in the World can we just raise our borrowing amount anytime we are about to max our credit out is amazing ling I mean amazing ling out of touch with reality, and makes 0 sense. Ya know we have to make sense here, and nothing I mean nothing in this story about a debt ceiling makes any sense, so that tells me something is wrong.... Very wrong..

Considering we live in a capitalistic society using a currency with no value, however you want to look at it, its a lose lose, situation here, I think the great Eureka moment they had when they decided to just print money with no value to it, may have finally reached its broken end. The depression was never fixed with the minds of intellect either, and it still lingers and man's intellect still has not figured out how to fix it without the price of blood, and chances are speaking of default... We will return to our default.....

Anyhow that is all the drunk moronic idiot Bicent76, has to say please return to you scheduled programing...
edit on 11-7-2011 by Bicent76 because: (no reason given)


this comment I made fits here as well...



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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US budget: No new deal in White House

Talks at the White House to try to break the deadlock over the US national debt have broken up without agreement.


President Barack Obama and congressional leaders have agreed to resume the talks, which ended after 75 minutes, on Monday. Mr Obama is struggling to marshal support for a budget package that would cut the national debt by $4tn (£2.5tn). The US risks defaulting on its debts in just over three weeks, when the current federal budget runs out. Eight top Senate and House of Representatives leaders met - unusually - on a Sunday in the Cabinet Room of the White House. As the talks got under way, Mr Obama was asked whether they could "work it out in 10 days". "We need to," he replied.


They are playing games ..they will raise the national debt ceiling beyond the current $14.3tn. Covering hole with another hole . Ass*holes

www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000
US budget: No new deal in White House

Talks at the White House to try to break the deadlock over the US national debt have broken up without agreement.


President Barack Obama and congressional leaders have agreed to resume the talks, which ended after 75 minutes, on Monday. Mr Obama is struggling to marshal support for a budget package that would cut the national debt by $4tn (£2.5tn). The US risks defaulting on its debts in just over three weeks, when the current federal budget runs out. Eight top Senate and House of Representatives leaders met - unusually - on a Sunday in the Cabinet Room of the White House. As the talks got under way, Mr Obama was asked whether they could "work it out in 10 days". "We need to," he replied.


They are playing games ..they will raise the national debt ceiling beyond the current $14.3tn. Covering hole with another hole . Ass*holes

www.bbc.co.uk...



I too believe they will raise the ceiling. They have no choice. If they do not it will cause a civil war.

It will allow them to stall for more time to find a real solution.
edit on 11-7-2011 by guessing because: (no reason given)







 
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