I don't think theists understand that we just don't believe...

Originally posted by Stan71
I tried to explain it to a friend a few days ago with this... Christians are only one step away from Atheism then I am. They denounce all other Gods except their own... I denounce all gods including theirs.

Do be honest, and admit where you got that quote!
It's certainly not original with you... in fact it's Dawkins, isn't it?
How .like an American not to acknowledge a quote from a Brit...

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Instead they think that atheists are 'in rebellion'. I think this problem is very detrimental to the discourse, as it's really hard for people to have a reasoned conversation when one side refuses to acknowledge that the other side actually does not believe.

. This tactic has often helped me with teaching, as I teach English as a foreign language and getting past the idea of what makes sense to you about the language is key.
.

I shudder that you have the same job that I do! I hope you don't ram your ideas down your students' throats, but I fear that you do...
I do think that you are "in rebellion", as your million-and-one atheist threads, and constant posts on threads where Christians have gathered shows a huge emotional commitment you wouldn't have, if you really didn;t believe - however deep down..

The recent increase from pro-theist direction of presenting amateur-psychological profiles of opposition is ofcourse a valuable addition to the general scope of a topic, but as with everything else on a thread, it necessitates both some competence AND some topic relevance.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by TechUnique

 

you didnt read the op , did you ?

To be honest I skim read his thread after skim reading the grammatically bad title.

Reasons being.

I didn't sleep last night and every thread I've ever seen this guy post is either inciting Christians to argue or just Creationists in General. Oh and because I'm feeling ignorant today.

To be honest I just don't like his threads.

Don't get me wrong, he holds a good debate. But usually all I see is him pwning up a creationist over and over again merely with logic. The creationist turns hateful ironically. Leading to a non productive thread.

My experience has always been that the hardest thing for theists to comprehend is that you can exist not believing in something mystical. The stronger their beliefs the farther they are away from comprehending non-belief. This seems to manifest it self in comments such as "believing" in atheism where atheism takes a form that would have a dogma and rituals associated with it. The whole concept of no heaven or hell no authority to answer to. I live in the bible belt and before that an Italian Catholic area. Religion consumes a tremendous amount of time and socializing. The concept of being able to fill the time these organized activities takes seems down right scary to the believers.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


It too, irritates me that militant theists and atheists have a tendency to hijack threads with basic flame wars. But it is the same throughout the forums.

As someone who does believe in God (but not religion), I would think that a “good” Christian would say to an atheist. “You are free to think what you want, and I will pray for you.”

And a atheist should reply with, “Cool, thanks, I don’t think I need it, but thanks for thinking of me.” And continue on with a different subject.

Of course that would make for very short threads.

Every atheist or theist I know has changed their outlook based upon personnal experience. Not because someone had convinced them to their point of view.

reply to post by Vicky32

Originally posted by Vicky32
I shudder that you have the same job that I do! I hope you don't ram your ideas down your students' throats, but I fear that you do...

What's with all the unwarranted personal attacks? I tend to be more busy either teaching them some very basic vocabulary, interesting ways to express themselves (in some cases profanely, but that's only when they request it and are adult classes), or helping them learn the vocabulary necessary to express themselves. It's interesting that I actually teach in a school which is a part of a Catholic primary school.

In fact, I make it a point to not discuss my own ideology in classes even when we're discussing political, social, and other controversial topics. Even if I have a one-on-one class. I repeat this phrase that I learned from the teacher who taught me to teach, "Buy me a beer and we'll talk about it before you leave"...which one time got my students, who I had spent three weeks with at that point, to each buy me a pint of beer...it was a class of 9.

Fun times, but I didn't drink them all. Passed a few over to the director of studies, also a crazy atheist like myself who knows how to separate her professional life from her personal one.

I do think that you are "in rebellion", as your million-and-one atheist threads, and constant posts on threads where Christians have gathered shows a huge emotional commitment you wouldn't have, if you really didn;t believe - however deep down..

Except...no. My commitment isn't emotional in that sense. My commitment is to changing the world to helping people on the fence to making the incredibly difficult transition to atheism just a bit easier. My commitments are to helping people and the world, not to opposing your religion specifically. I happen to oppose it because I see it and the mindset it produces to be harmful and toxic in a way that spreads to other areas of life and creates all sorts of negative backlash.

Hell, Malta's recent referendum on divorce is a perfect case study in that...especially with the hilarious article (discussed in another thread with an innocuous title) that the introduction of divorce in Malta helps Islamic fundamentalists.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Well, meet the atheist who changed his mind based upon examining the evidence. Go to a freethought convention and you'll meet a lot more like me.

reply to post by TechUnique


I'm sorry, but there isn't a grammatical error in my thread title. I'm sure Vicky32, a fellow English teacher, can back me up on this.

Sure, it's a complicated sentence, not the most succinct way of putting it, but the grammar is there. The ellipses are there for poetic effect, so I get a grammar pass on not ending my sentence with a fullstop.

3 threads in 2 days back to back bashing religion.

Yea, you're lookin for something. You won't find it.

Originally posted by graphuto
3 threads in 2 days back to back bashing religion.

Yea, you're lookin for something. You won't find it.

CLEARLY your crowd is being persecuted, because the rest of us don't recognize the rules or the mindset from theocracy, and insist that you're just like everybody else, without any privileges.

If 'god' actually intervened in a direct, observable way to help you recreate theocracy I would take a good, long thought on everything.

What privileges do we have? We're persecuted and looked down on by almost everyone.

He will, and it will be too late. I'll bet you'll remember all these threads in which you vehemently denied his existence.

Its funny i think that all views have merit there is no right or wrong, there just is
Australia actually accepts atheism as a religious stand point..
makes you think..

In 1983, the High Court of Australia defined religion as a complex of beliefs and practices which point to a set of values and an understanding of the meaning of existence. The ABS 2001 Census Dictionary defines "No Religion" as a category of religion which has subcategories such as agnosticism, atheism, Humanism and rationalism.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by sprocket2cog
Its funny i think that all views have merit there is no right or wrong, there just is

There is absolutely right and wrong.

A man kills and rapes a child.

That just IS?

It isn't wrong?

LoL.

reply to post by graphuto


on that level..
but im talking the right and wrong of spirtual belife systems so your point is irrelevant..
but go deeper....
to understand one is to understand the other..
ying and yang
i cant walk the road for you, only show you the door.
its all about balance. in the quest to find order there is created chaos.
in the dark comes the light
shadows are only there because of the light..
its more of a zen thing..
balance and tolerance.. not right or wrong

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Never heard of a freethought convention. I just thought it was something we all do.

If there is ever one up where I live, I'll check it out. Sounds like it could be a adventure.

As long as it is not one sided, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

reply to post by graphuto


You wrote

["What privileges do we have?"]

None. But some christians constantly try to get privileges. The right to interfere in other peoples' lives, exempt from secular laws etc.

Quote: ["We're persecuted and looked down on by almost everyone."]

Because you still live in theocratic fantasies and seek privileges.

Quote on something 'god' is supposed to do later: [" He will, and it will be too late."]

Seeing is believing.

Quote: ["I'll bet you'll remember all these threads in which you vehemently denied his existence."]

I'm afraid I don't remember them. I remember many threads, where I ask for evidence to validate theist claims and not getting any such evidence, I conclude, that you're just guessing or making things up.

I remember at a convention of Jehovah's Witnesses. I remember clearly the speaker saying everyone is born aware of god, and that the only reason people don't believe are either rebellion, or 'worldly' influences clouding their minds.

And I hear it all the time in a Witness family, that people don't believe because they "don't want to believe that they are living in sin, that they need to change their ways"

An Ad hominem is one thing, but making things up about a certain group, so people don't take their thoughts seriously, is pretty horrible. Sadly, strong believers easily fall for these tricks because they don't question things that support their faith.

-
Ironically, I often hear 'why would you want to believe ___?' as an general argument coming from these same people."Why would you want to believe we came from monkeys?" "Why would you want to be forever dead, why wouldn't you rather believe in eternal paradise?" "Buddhists are so dumb, why would you want to believe you're coming back as a worm?" ect, ect. A double standard, wanting to believe is a logical argument only if it supports their beliefs, and a sign of rebellion if it doesn't.

-
Not that that applies to all christians, or theists, but it does apply to a lot of them. Ones who can actually be rational regarding their faith, are much more respectable.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

a crazy atheist like myself who knows how to separate her professional life from her personal one.

Wow, and I always thought you were guy all this time.
Very Interesting.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Wow, and I always thought you were guy all this time.
Very Interesting.

Oh man, I totally overlooked that.

I blame the avatar.

What confuses me the most about the usual atheist is that they are very skeptical about God - yet seem to take it on faith that the laws of physics are a constant and express themselves in a way that a human animal can predict how the universe works accurately. Perhaps this standard of "organized universe" is only a brief moment of chaos that includes concepts that diverege from existence and nonexistence in a way that our bandwith-limited animal minds can't even concieve. You can't know that evolution is a universal fact, only that it fits a model of our world and how humans measure time and space better than most other creation theories.

Despite these worries, the scientific method is a good way to find small answers. Religion is also a small way to find indirect clues. These are faith based mentalities - based on ritual, protocol, process, assumption. Things do not have to be black or white. Exist or not exist. If God is all powerful, he is powerful enough to be a contridiction. Powerful enough to also not exist simultaniously existing. Perhaps atheists are the 4th member of the trinity. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Absence of God. Even entering one more point to the equation makes the whole thing too difficult for human brains to understand. One point of perhaps infinite points, but each person has part of the puzzle. The Theists are electrical wiring, the athiest the ground and the world an engine.

Belief in the Scientific Process is belief in a measuring tool. All of science is merely a way for humans to measure and compare things. In the Bible the first thing Adam the first man does is start naming things - distinguishing them from eachother for the purpose of comparisons. We are built to do this process if God is real. If God is real atheism was engineered into our species, even if only for a learning process.