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Christian Tithing: A curse...or is NOT tithing a curse?

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posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by AlreadyGone
 


You used the word giving as the same as tithing when giving can be voluntary with no set amount. Most tithe legalist keep missing the point. No rational person objects to giving to support our church, what is in dispute is this, are Christians under the tithe law in Malachi 3:7-9 and can we be cursed for robbing God?
The answer is No to both questions. Redeemed Christians cannot be cursed with the Malachi 3:7-9 curse for these reasons:

A). Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law (read Galatians 3:13-14)
B) You cannot Rob God, since God with His Son Freely Gives Us All things (see Romans 8:32)
C) No one can condemn you over any set amount of money you give or don't give since Romans 8:33 said no one can bring a charge against you, it is God who justified you with the payment Jesus made on his cross for you!
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posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by SmokeandShadow
 


In Matthew 23:23 Jesus spoke of tithing but to Jews under the Old Covenant law.Funny thing is Jesus did not praise the tithing Pharisees but rebuked them for their pride in their tithe works. Jesus also placed tithing as a less important aspect of the law, and below mercy.

Most grace robbers fail to understand the difference in the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and what audience Jesus was speaking to and which covenant was in place when He/ God was speaking.
These grace robbers have scared bible illiterates into thinking they can be cursed for not tithing when the whole point of the cross was that Christ died to redeem them from the curse of the law in the first place. Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeem them from the curse. They cannot Rob God since he freely gives them all things (Romans 8:32)
....this goes right over the heads of most robots of the tithe legalist, What a pity.
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posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 

There is one bible verse that contradicts every grace robber. Galatians 3:13. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. This pretty much cancels the Malachi 3:9 curse and should shut these grace robbers up. Too bad they seem to ignore Galatians 3:13 and yes indeed tithing was a law, even Jesus said it was but he said this to a whole other nation before he said Paid in full, not to be confused with Pay in full.
Jesus also said tithing was the least important law. Jesus placed tithing below mercy which these grace robbers seem to lack, esp. those ones who are spiritual abusive and try to put fear of curse, illness, poverty and lack on you for not being able to tithe on every dollar! Wish church folks would wake up to the liberty they have in Christ or read Galatians 4:24 and Galatians 4:30 with understanding then re-read Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed you from the curse even the Malachi curse.
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posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by Graceoverlaw
 


My edits were because I felt led to add bible scriptures as my references. Not my own words but His Majesty and Grace's words.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 02:43 PM
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Its not only the"mega-church"s that encourage tithing.To me its a more fundamentalist ideal who can obviously afford to.I don't believe the Lord would curse someone for being poor!



posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 01:16 AM
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Its bullsheet is what it is.Many years ago when myself and the hubby fell into the trap of conventional Christianity for a while,we discovered that real+proper.So you believe that if you tithe,even if you seriously cannot afford to do so-you will be helped in supernatural ways if yoiu need it-oh brother,sister,you will be blessed so abundantly for doing the right thing+helping the church to help the poor(of which you yourself happen to be one)

Then a week before next payday one's so out of pocket because of the tithing that you cannot buy bread+milk-and if you pray for help,there's none forthcoming.Ask a Christian brother to loan you a few bucks so you can feed your children-and he tells you "Sorry I don't believe in lending out money" Ask a Christian sister+the answer is"Sorry I can"t but I will pray for you"

What a crock.The whole thing.
But I guess I did get my blessing in the end-i got a glimpse at the true nature of reality,and an end to false beliefs.



posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 01:37 AM
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Here's another thing-if the Christian God of the bible has any integrity-would it not touch his heart much more to see a poor family or individual help out other even poorer folks at cost to themselves,denying themselves something because they genuinely in their deepest heart Want to help-than the admin-correct ten percent exactly from the thick wallet of a well-off man who don't even notice the missing ten percent?
I don't even know why I reply,I am long out of the deception of Christianity as it is practised today-maybe I just hate to see people robbed+deceved+defrauded.

My end word on tithing-if it is what makes you happy,by all means do so-but if you put yourself out of pocket to do so,make sure you have relatives who will feed your kids if the tithing causes empty food cupboards in your pantry-because its dicey to rely on your Christian brothers+sisters to be of any practical help,mercy or relief.Pity prayer packs so few calories+nutrional value to the empty tummies of hungry children-hungry because their parents believed a lie.And empty promises from people who are supposed to live only to help others.



posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 01:39 AM
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People pay subscriptions / membership fees to the Golf Club or Country Club. The more you pay the better the establishment and how you are perceived by others... apparently! So, why should it be any different in the Christian Club?


I have always maintained that one's religious beliefs are a personal issue. Paying to "belong" to a swanky club in the hope of "salvation" and ensuring the club CEO lives in luxury are so far removed from the very idea of Christianity that I find it unfathomable that they are still in business. As has been said though, fools and their money are soon parted, it just irks me that these conmen get tax-free status..... what a scam!



posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 


The problem with your testimony is it seems your tithe works got you the increase and not God with His Son whom Romans 8:32 declares God with His Son Jesus freely give us all things. Freely means freely. His grace means unearned and unmerited free for the asking.

If you have not read your whole bible word for word Genesis to Revelation, which it sounds like you havent'
Get a bible concordance and look up every word where Grace is mentioned and learn about your New Covenant of Grace.

There are plenty of unsaved rich folks. God gave every living soul a purpose or talent for their existence.

It also seems a little like you think you bought and paid in cash for your grace and increase. NOT SO. Galatians 5:4

God may very well have blessed you because of his goodness and faithfulness and because like any good father would have mercy on his child.. The Prodigal son spent all his Father's money and was still a Son with the rights of a son. This performance based relationship with God negates grace which means unmerited favor, this is the problem when ones tithe record gets all the glory when Jesus said Paid in full, not pay in full.
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posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by Raxoxane
 


Anyone who understands Jesus words on the cross, It is finished as in Paid in full would know those in Christ have a zero debt.

Last I checked paid in full means a zero balance. Never stop loving Jesus even if men and their man-made traditions distort the truth.



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by Raxoxane
 


In answer to your question read Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed.

There is not one mandate from God to keep the tithe law for his favor and grace after Jesus said Paid in full on his cross. These grace robbers want to control the Lord's people and their wallets so much so that your average church member does not have any money left to help the poor after giving tons of money to some prosperity preacher promising a truck load of money in exchange for tithe payments.

Too bad these grace robbers and their blind clones don't trust the Holy Spirit to lead and guide those in Christ to give as the Lord leads without misquoting Malachi 3:9 to try to put fear of a curse on those Christ has redeemed from the curse of the.law. Galatians 3:13-14.

Most bible illiterates who have never read their entire bibles word for word don't understand God's daily Grace, or their New Covenant promises because they have been systematically brainwashed by Tithe legalist on a weekly basis. These tithe legalist give their tithe record all the credit when they get any blessing large or small. Just listen to their tithe testimonies and you will discover it is all about what they paid and not what Jesus paid in full for them. They are grace robbers and robbing the Lord of his glory due Him alone for the payment he made to freely give us all things (God and His Son now Freely gives us all things). Romans 8:32
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posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 06:11 AM
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my thoughts about tithing are pretty simple. If you join or go to a church, ask where the money goes. Do they do service for the poor like serving meals at shelters, missions to foreign countries to bring aid or relief? Or do they keep it to remodel and build a bigger temple to their deceitful ways? The wheat from the chaf.



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 08:58 AM
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Best book I ever read on the subject was Russell Earl Kelly's Should the Church Teach Tithing? Free copies are available here I only wish I'd have read such a book in my younger years! I'd have been less naive about "Churchianity" than I was. To summarize like others have already pointed out tithes were calculated on crops and animals and given to the landless Levites for their service at the temple. It didn't consist of money or mammon. There is no longer any animal sacrifices. There is no longer any temple. And there is no longer any Levitical priesthood. Thus, there is no longer a requirement to tithe. In the NT Christ sanctioned alms giving, which was up to the giver how much to give (Mat 6:3-4; Luk 11:41; 2 Cor 9:7). Those "hirelings" who teach this "doctrine of devils" are those whom Paul warned against who peddle God's word for profit and think "gain is godliness" (2 Cor 2:17; 1 Tim 6:5).



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by sprocket2cog
If the church is using the money to support the poor in their area, or do something good with it like medication in third world areas , water, food etc.. and you can afford it, then i see it as a good thing.
but if they are using it buy another gold chalice pope mobile or other waste of money and they pressure you to pay or get cursed, then thats not good.
i think it would be better for someone to give their time to help at a shelter or soup kitchen the give away money to the church.
there is many other institutions that need it more and do better focused work for the needy.
Look around and you will see time is just as important as money.
edit on 8-6-2011 by sprocket2cog because: (no reason given)


Check this out man, there is this MEGA church in my area.... They just added another addition to the church. This time a restaurant. (and No, they don't feed the poor with a soup kitchen)
The pastor(s) drive mercedes cars (thier only jobs by the way) and people (broke) show up every Sunday and tithe looking for a blessing....
I think all the blessings are being used up by the pastors.

Didn't Jesus flip tables and Shi* for people buying and selling in his father's house?



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
Judging by my own experiences of once belonging to a US-styled charismatic mega-church, and those of my Christian friends and TBN, it appears that tithing is a Biblical commandment.
Not only that, but one is considered "cursed" if one doesn't pay tithes.

In the mainstream genre of evangelical Christianity broadcast to the global world by a matrix of mass-communication and ideologically connected preachers, "tithing" is considered giving 10% of your income to the church or ministry.

My friends believe this unquestionably, and they think they must "sow the financial seed" to be blessed.
It's almost regarded as a law - tithe and you shall receive in much abundance.
However, I also pity them, because they are struggling financially, and cannot afford to hand over 10% of their income so that the pastor can buy himself something nice.

No use arguing with them though. The husband of the couple just returned from a "Mighty Man" camp by Angus Buchan, where the the laws of "financial prosperity" through giving away cash was once again drummed into him.

Some now say a "Godly law" deserves consumer protection, and if one is not blessed after a given time one should get the money back. Fat chance...

They told me they would send me the verses that tithing is based on, because I've never really seen them in the New Testament (the last verse they sent me was from Malachi).
But they seem to go more on testimonies of the "miraculous effects" of tithing in their church.

However, while Googling on the topic, it seems tithing is a conspiracy within Christianity.
Many sites argue that tithing as a set 10% (or even more) is not a requirement at all.
They even say this teaching is a curse and a heresy used by sham pastors.
bible-truths.com...

Now what must I believe - so tithing is a curse from the old law (like animal sacrifice), and my friends are "cursed"?

Are they just misled, or even doing the right thing?

edit on 8-6-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



I hope that you can read this so that you can understand it better. There is a difference between a Jew and a Gentile. If you are not a Jew, than you are a Gentile. The law on tithing was given by God to the Jews. One of the tribes of Israel were to tend to the work of the God in the Temple at Jerusalem. They were Levite priests. The other tribes were commanded to care for them, thus we have the tithes.

In Malachi it had come to the point where the Jews not only stopped tithing, making it very difficult for the priests to do their Temple service, but they also offered up blemished animal sacrifices to which God chided them and told them to give such things to their governor. When they worshiped they were blaming God for all their problems instead of thanking Him for all His goodness to them. So there was a few things and not just about the tithes. But the command of the tithe is from the law of Moses and for the Jewish people under the law. Christians are not under the law to do the works that were commanded the Jews. A good read is Galatians chapters 2-5 about this.

In the New Testament, Christians are told in 1 Corinthians 16:2 to give according to as you decide in your heart, but if you do, do so cheerfully and not grudgingly. That's all there is, there is no more. For some it means more and for some it means less.

There is a promise by Jesus that when you give you shall receive. But in the last days, some make a new way saying give in order to get you financial wealth which is not the gospel. If we give in order to get, we will still be wanting at the end of the day, but if we give out of compassion than we will receive the same in time. As for prosperity, the Bible says that we shall prosper as our soul prospers. In other words prosperity comes from learning to be kind, forgiving, compassionate and loving. Helping where you can and doing no harm to your neighbors. That's it.

If someone asks you about tithing just tell them tithing is an old testament law meant for the Jews under the law, and not for non Jewish gentile believers. In fact, when the question was brought up as to if the gentile believers should be commanded to be circumcised and obey the law of Moses, the answer was no, (Acts 15:22-29.)

Religion gets in the way of relationship, and Jesus is all about relationship, and we are supposed to be too. But tithing is so engrained in modern Christianity that people believe it is for them, and they use Malachi 3 to enforce it.




edit on 13-8-2013 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


The only real tithe I ever gave to a church blew up in my face.

It is wrong, for a fact.

Give to those in need. Don't pointlessly pay people to spread their agenda. Fellowship with other Christians if you wish. Don't worry about the church building's parking lot, or roof. If a church only asks for a little help with money every now and then to repair the pipes, cool. But if they're demanding you to pay weekly or monthly or whatever you do, they're not right AT ALL.

This is catholic doctrine that crept into the protestant, and, well, every other church on the planet really. I actually don't know if a church exists that does not commit this folly.

I do know one thing:

Jesus taught people outside most of the time. He only went into the temple a couple of times, and usually to ream out the scribes and priests for their silliness.

To the one who said that the couple of verses in the New Testament regarding the Pharisees tithing, you say those support tithing; no, Jesus is not telling His children to tithe. He is telling the Pharisees what they SHOULD have done, before Him. Not what they should be doing now.

But because of His arrival, it was too late for them to fix themselves in the law. That's basic Christian understanding.

If I were given authority by God to give a commandment to my brothers and sisters in Christ, my commandment would be to give to the homeless and the poor in your communities or towns or cities, DAILY if need be. And do it with joy, and get to know those people, and do not be put off by their quirkiness, and don't judge them if they happen to steal or do something stupid a couple of times, Forgive them and show them that you know they have a crazy mentality because people treat them like mangy dogs. But the fact is that they could have perfect teeth and perfect hair and stand tall over you and crush you just as easily as the other way around occurs. Very, very, very few people actually desire to look and feel like garbage, and you will find out who those are easily enough.

That is what I think should be done by all, and that is what I like to do, even when my family is scrapping for pennies, we are always thinking of the homeless and the poor. We know them by name in this town because we find them, they find us, God sends them to us, however it happens, it happens. And we make friends with them.

And the people of status with whom we are acquainted, our family, our friends, look at us like we are idiots when they see us hanging out with those guys or girls, without fear of their judgment.

IT makes me so happy to know that I love those people, even more than I love many other kinds of people. I love homeless people, the poor, young punks, some angry people, some drunks, and some gays/lesbians as well, though I know that homosexuality is wrong, I still get to know the person and understand them. If they haven't yet accepted Christ, there is absolutely no reason yet to judge them, for they are still true to their current creature!

It makes me sad that others judge so harshly, or misjudge (whether for good or bad), but also it makes me happy because it reveals somewhat to me and in me and through those around me the glory of God; because the devil exists, there must be something visible in the Spirit to show in whom God resides, and these situations are excellent for revealing true light.

If NOT tithing is a cursed, let us be accursed. But if NOT tithing is not a curse, we are truly blessed to have the freedom to take care of our neighbors and brothers and sisters in Christ that truly need help. For if we have a little excess in the flesh, then we should give in the flesh to those that have no excess.

And therefore, the flesh is satisfied, and rests, and then the mind and the spirit are not in bondage to the vehicle of the flesh, and therefore are more open to understanding, reason, true love, and true life.

And Christians judge when a man or woman does a thing, has a temptation, or whatever. And now there is a way to possibly make that temptation go away, but to constantly battle a temptation also is crazy. It's impossible to have the freedom to do anything if you spend your entire time fighting a battle that serves no better purpose for anyone except for your desire to live up to the law, which you cannot.

We do not go out and purposely find trouble to get into, but the flesh is weak. So we do our best to overcome, and to focus on what we must, and to move forward, and to share the love of Christ with the world.

So let us not feed the flesh of those who are overly satisfied and are worried about tomorrow's satisfaction. How pointless.

You are not more of a man for throwing away your money. However, a wife does need to listen to the husband, and a husband should be hearing his wife. If a man believes the woman rules over, he is wrong.



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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Since its all inner work, to attain Higher Mind, with possibly a real Teacher or Family coming in to help, for that is how I see Christ, but have faith no matter what, even if the Christ is our Intercessor and Inner Guidance....

In any case, like this one. For you know, the temple is the body, and the outer symbols of religion are idolatry, while we're walking by the temples for divinity living in harsh circumstances, inner cities and the streets.

ezinearticles.com...:-It-Was-Never-About-Money&id=6971535
The Spirit of the Tithe: It Was Never About Money


Let's begin with Abraham. Many are taught that Abraham tithed, but nowhere in the Bible does it give any indication of this. The idea is really quite silly. In a single recorded incident Abraham gave Melchizedek a tithe on the spoils of war. For some reason, religious leaders often equate this with the modern idea of tithing on paychecks. In Abraham's case, the spoils of war had nothing to do with Abraham's income. This voluntary offer on the part of Abraham certainly didn't set any tithing precedent, either; hundreds of years later, when Moses stated that the Israelites were to give Levites a small portion on the spoils of war, it wasn't even close to ten percent. And how does an entire nation giving some of the spoils of war away equate to an individual tithing on their weekly or monthly income?

Here is something else to consider: What would Abraham's regular tithes be used for? To go to the local ziggurat building fund? In Abraham's day, a ziggurat was a rectangular, tiered temple built by the ancient Assyrians and Babylonians,

....


It then discusses various times money was tithed, but here is the thing, it was for community.


So what was the real spirit of tithing? I can honestly say it is one of the most beautiful examples of community love I can think of. Rather than being a way to amass wealth for church programs, buildings, and high-dollar salaries, it was a practical way to take care of the community. The Levites, the priest, the widows, the orphans, the poor, and even the stranger would have all benefited from the Torah tithe. Many times today tithing is done out of an attitude of obligation, but this should never be the case. Tithing has always been about physical provision for the community as a whole. If a religious leader states that tithing on your yearly income is a requirement by God, they are certainly not getting this teaching from the Bible. Instead it's a part of their man-made religious program. Religion can only direct us to connect with God on the outside. Religion teaches humanity that God is "out there" and we have to reach out to him. This is why some religious leaders teach that tithing will bless you (Malachi 3:10 anyone?). But they misunderstand the entire concept of Biblical tithing and God. The Bible teaches us to connect to God on the "inside," for this is the only place God can be found. That's why Jesus stated the Kingdom of Heaven was within us.

In conclusion I want to say that giving is a wonderful thing. We should all be willing to give, especially out of our abundance.


This was not meant to make Church powerful and wealthy for the real Church is your body and we're not supposed to give our power away to a false idol.

It was to look after the poor amongst other things, more of a war spoils and such. A kind of Tax.


This is what a JUST society does with Taxes and with Charities, they don't give it to a monster fake religion.
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posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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Tithing is supposed to be for the good of all - not one church or person. The person who is "cursed" would be the one not using it in accordance with biblical principles. If someone keeps giving knowing this than they are complicit to the wrong doing it would seem.

I don't know where this word cursed comes from (the leader of the church) but it isn't in the bible as far as I know. Doing things for the greater good builds in people a sense of accomplishment, purpose, competency, and is ultimately rewarding. The more one nourishes this angle to "self" the more well rounded and thus.- closer to God.

If someone doesn't feel this it means they are not also reaping the benefit or disconnected from the church (us and them instead of we). They should give of their time instead - to become connected. Then they may begin to understand where the money goes and either feel reward or not in giving. Tithing isn't about separation from your money to be blessed. It's about building up the better person within us all. If they can't give money there are other options, and if the church doesn't like that then your friends need to move on as they will never find relationship with their higher power.



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Dianec
Tithing is supposed to be for the good of all - not one church or person. The person who is "cursed" would be the one not using it in accordance with biblical principles. If someone keeps giving knowing this than they are complicit to the wrong doing it would seem.

I don't know where this word cursed comes from (the leader of the church) but it isn't in the bible as far as I know. Doing things for the greater good builds in people a sense of accomplishment, purpose, competency, and is ultimately rewarding. The more one nourishes this angle to "self" the more well rounded and thus.- closer to God.

If someone doesn't feel this it means they are not also reaping the benefit or disconnected from the church (us and them instead of we). They should give of their time instead - to become connected. Then they may begin to understand where the money goes and either feel reward or not in giving. Tithing isn't about separation from your money to be blessed. It's about building up the better person within us all. If they can't give money there are other options, and if the church doesn't like that then your friends need to move on as they will never find relationship with their higher power.


Do you know what you are saying? If you haven't seen the word "curse" in the Bible, you haven't read, at all.

People don't need to feel "accomplishment", neither do people need to be "well-rounded". Accomplishment belongs to God (though we feel the glory of God that He worked through us, and it feels good, to desire that FEELING above desiring God's will for us is wrong; for sometimes it is God's will that we feel bad, for our better purpose -- not that He wants us to feel bad, but if we need to feel bad for something good to happen, for us or another, then then His will is for us to feel bad in a godly way. As well, people don't need to be well-rounded, but need to be well-grounded. When the foundation is good, then the building stands tall. Or well-rooted; when the tree is well-rooted, it stands taller, and produces better fruit. But the tree does not produce the fruit, but the light which shines upon the tree and the water which is absorbed into the tree, and the soil from which the water brings the nutrients into the tree, being catalyzed by light. But being well-rounded means we are pushed around, to and fro. Everyone should be convinced in their minds.

And yes, I AM disconnected from the church of men. Nailed it. I will not be connected to the churches of men. They are totally folly. I have found the temple to be the body of flesh in which is housed the Holy Spirit, if the Holy Spirit is given into us, and we die, and therefore Christ lives. And I have met the Holy Spirit housed in other men on the streets much, much more than I ever met a Spirit filled believer inside church walls!

But everything that you have said is exactly what the leaders would convince you. They say, "If you don't tithe, you're serving money instead of God!"

How ironic, because the money is going to THEM for their churches, their pulpits, and because of their words that they speak! So therefore, who is then serving money?

Thanks be to God that our reward is in Heaven and not on earth, for what dull rewards there are here! For the more there is to have, the less satisfaction there is; desire is logarithmic in function; the more you get, the more you want! Except God has blessed you with an amount, and the Spirit has kept you from temptation, and you are able to be blessed a little here, that you might bless everyone around you A LOT.

There are so many churches, and so many church members in this world, and so much money in these churches; so--much--money.

They should sell their denominational headquarters and take every penny they get from that sell and dispense to the homeless!

The fact that there is ONE HOMELESS PERSON ON THE STREET testifies to the fact that the churches of man have failed horribly!

Now Jesus Christ said, "the poor you will always have with you." We are not going to make the homeless rich. We are only giving them an opportunity to do better. Whatever they do with it from there is between them and God. That is not our decision to control. We just simply know better who is good to give to and who is not. But we do not judge so quickly. If they make mistakes, we also have made mistakes. Give and give and give, and forgive 490 times at least, and then you have only begun to forgive!

The love of this world has grown so cold that Christians do not understand; and also that Christians have become so afraid of what is good, though they know what is right, and still they will combat what is right.

Like Jesus said, people lust after their flesh; they seek to preserve themselves, therefore do they attempt to follow the law, or create a law by which they can be saved. But we are only ever saved by grace; not works lest we should boast.



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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Go out and give directly to the places that need it. Dont give it to the church, after the chop up the money only a bit goes to where it needs to be.

I once got a food box from a church, the produce was spoiled and the bread was moldy, of course I cut the pieces out that I could eat, it wasnt much. I was grateful. When looking at how those churches dont pay taxes and all the idiots that do the tithing, that food box could have had fresh produce and bread.

So let the idiots stroke themselves, and believe in the supernatural. It does hurt me to see so many stupid people though.





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