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US-Taliban talks expected within a year

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posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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Considering the recent alleged death of OBL, and the recent rise of violence in Afghanistan forcing the Taliban into new territories, Sec. Gates has opined that this may present an opportunity to enter talks with the Afghan regime.



"My own view is that the political opportunities will flow from military pressure," Gates said on Saturday at a security conference in Singapore, prior to leaving for Kabul as part of a final world tour before stepping down later this month....
Gates's comments follow reports that the US has begun a secret engagement with the Taliban as it begins to withdraw troops from Afghanistan in July as part of a process to hand over all combat operations to Afghan security forces by 2014


He even goes on to suggest that the Taliban may have a political role in the future of Afghanistan. But only if they realize they have been defeated militarily.



"I think there is a generally accepted view that primarily all conflicts of this kind eventually come to a close with some kind of a political settlement," Gates said. "But the reality is, in my view, that the prospects for a political settlement do not become real until the Taliban and the other adversaries, the Afghan adversaries, begin to conclude they cannot win militarily."


In my opinion, this is leaving the door wide open for intelligent discussion with the people of Afghanistan and the eventual withdrawal of troops according to the 2014 time fame. Not only are the Taliban being beat back by American and Allied forces, but we are definitely feeling the effects of prolonged war here at home. We can no longer sustain this war...no matter what the political talking-.s say, and Gates is leaving the door open for Americans to put this issue to rest once and for all.

Eventually, we must come to terms with what we set out to accomplish, and that goal has been met. I say talk with the Taliban, ensure peace and continuity of the Afghan government and bring the troops home. This is long overdue and I hope we call follow through without partisan egos thwarting the stepping stones of peace.

Al Jazeera




posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 





We can no longer sustain this war...no matter what the political talking-.s say, and Gates is leaving the door open for Americans to put this issue to rest once and for all.


LOL your believing Gates words? not even a chance, Americans forces will stay in Afghanistan for a long time.




Eventually, we must come to terms with what we set out to accomplish, and that goal has been met. I say talk with the Taliban, ensure peace and continuity of the Afghan government and bring the troops home. This is long overdue and I hope we call follow through without partisan egos thwarting the stepping stones of peace.


What peace? american forces will stay in Afghanistan for a long time, its an occupation sheepslayer247 troops wont return.

Did you know that Americans forces found Mineral Riches in Afghanistan last year? of course they have been claiming it will help the Afghan economy, but it has not.




The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium






The vast scale of Afghanistan’s mineral wealth was discovered by a small team of Pentagon officials and American geologists. The Afghan government and President Hamid Karzai were recently briefed, American officials said.



Talks with the Taliban have been done before with no luck, as for the pulling out of Afghanistan, that will never happen.


Afghanistan has alot mineral wealth.

Final Comment:
I cant believe so many people are still believing the official bin laden raid story and believe that the Navy seals Six Exists?
edit on 8-6-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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pardon my french
but WTF happened to the policy
that we don't negotiate with terrorist ??

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that the US
Gov is a terrorist entity themselves
makes it good to go. nevermind.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 





We can no longer sustain this war...no matter what the political talking-.s say, and Gates is leaving the door open for Americans to put this issue to rest once and for all.


LOL your believing Gates words? not even a chance, Americans forces will stay in Afghanistan for a long time.


American forces have already been in Afghanistan for a long time.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 


LOL your believing Gates words? not even a chance, Americans forces will stay in Afghanistan for a long time.
Gates is on his way out. I am taking his comments for what they are worth and I agree with his sentiments. We may be in Afghanistan in a perpetual war for the foreseeable future, but Gates and the Military know they can never completely wipe out everyone they label as a "terrorist". It's time to leave!




What peace? american forces will stay in Afghanistan for a long time, its an occupation sheepslayer247 troops wont return.
If we pull our .s of of our backsides and learn that we cannot police the world....our troops can come home. We must be willing to enter peace talks with them, plain and simple. If we don't, you will get you never-ending war and our troops will continue to die.



Did you know that Americans forces found Mineral Riches in Afghanistan last year? of course they have been claiming it will help the Afghan economy, but it has not.
Yes, I know this. As far as I know they have not even begun to pull these minerals out of the ground, yet. So of course it wouldn't be very useful...yet. I don't see what this has to do with Gate's comments on peace talks.



Talks with the Taliban have been done before with no luck, as for the pulling out of Afghanistan, that will never happen.

When have they had talks with the Taliban before? Call me clueless, got a source so I can educate myself?




cant believe so many people are still believing the official bin laden raid story and believe that the Navy seals Six Exists?

I didn't comment on the Seal Team, so I do not know. I also believe I said this in regards to Bin Ladin:



Considering the recent alleged death of OBL

Hope you caught that, thanks!

edit on 8-6-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: spellin's



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
pardon my french
but WTF happened to the policy
that we don't negotiate with terrorist ??

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that the US
Gov is a terrorist entity themselves
makes it good to go. nevermind.


Why would these people be labled a terrorist? Most the people we label terrorist are just fighting to defend their homelands. That's exactly what you would do, right? If we are not careful, people such as you and I can be labeled terrorists. So I would be cautious in how we use that word.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
pardon my french
but WTF happened to the policy
that we don't negotiate with terrorist ??


Are the Taliban Terrorist?
The US went into Afghanistan originally to go after Al Qaeda, the largely Pashtun/Taliban wouldn't give up their locations or hand over known Al Qaeda. members. Remember?

So if Al Qaeda is a supposedly manufactured CIA entity one would think that the Taliban would have exposed that reality by now. Instead, they fought and died [losing many loved ones] just to protect and support a non-existent farce eh?

Pashtunistan anyone?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
pardon my french
but WTF happened to the policy
that we don't negotiate with terrorist ??


The Taliban are not considered terrorists.

www.jihadwatch.org...

Seems to me that everything they have done was in defense of their homeland, which the US has invaded/occupied. You would do no different if the roles were reversed, no?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by Aggie Man
The Taliban are not considered terrorists.


neither is the CIA
but their .count of dead
is over 6 Million

what would you call that ???



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Aggie Man
The Taliban are not considered terrorists.


neither is the CIA
but their .count of dead
is over 6 Million

what would you call that ???


I'd love to view the source of that claim.
I read up on the topic almost daily. I've never heard of the 6 million dead figure until now.

Could you please provide us a link?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Interesting thread, I too think that the only way forward in the Afghan conflict is for negotiation between NATO, the Karzai administration and the Taliban, however it’s much easier said than done.

From the American perspective the largest problem comes from political risk of negotiating with the Taliban and the perception of peace talks with the American people. There is a misconception amongst many Americans (not necessarily represented on ATS) who hold the believe that the Taliban and Al’Qa’ida are two of the same and by negotiating with the Taliban, America would effectively be negotiating with the same guys responsible for 9/11. Then another problem is how one interprets the policy of not negotiating with terrorists, I would argue that this should only apply to specific terrorist acts such as the taking of hostages and in the bigger picture it is necessary to negotiate with terrorists. There are other problems, negotiations are generally seen as legitimising the groups negotiations, then America would lose face after 10 years of fighting with the Taliban they are going to sit down and talk to them, most probably leading to the Taliban soon retaking control of the state of Afghanistan and establishing sharia law.

By far the biggest problem as I see it from the American side is a general lack of understanding of the Taliban, not just the misconception of them being the same as Al’Qa’ida but the idea that the Afghan people don’t want them. Prior to the Taliban taking control of Kabul, Afghanistan was a lawless hell hole, in the first part of 1994, 20,000 were killed in fighting amongst war lords. People read about how the Taliban treated women, such as refusing to provide education to girls and blaming Sharia law for this. The truth is the reason the Taliban did not provide education to girls was because they could not afford to. The reason they reputedly banned the flying of kites was because to fly a kite many went on to roofs and could look down on to women in their back yards were they could bear more flesh in the family home. Sure they were harsh, I don’t agree with Sharia law but under the Taliban there was zero corruption and they massively reduced the poppy trade two of the big factors currently plaguing Afghanistan and the thorn in the side of NATO. A perfect example of NATO’s ignorance of the Taliban can be seen during operation Moshtarak they chose that name because it means “joint” or “together”, only problem is that its Dari, the majority of Afghans are Pashtun this ignorance just annoys the locals. One of the greatest insults to a Pushtun is to enter his home uninvited so the night raids by Special Forces against them has to stop, every time they arrest one innocent Afghan from his home in the middle of the night the electively create a entire street of Talbis, torture that prisoner you have entire town . Until NATO recognise the traditions and customs of the Pushtun people they cannot even begin to think about negotiation.

According the Taliban talks are not possible as it has been declared by Mullah Omar that negotiations will only begin once the foreign troops have left, that means America. However there have been some attempts at talks between the Taliban and the Karzai administration, it is difficult to see how these can be effective as most Afghans just see him as a corrupt CIA puppet. I my view negations between America and the Taliban will only work if they are as the result of talks between the Afghan government and Taliban leadership but with the corruption that is not possible.

Then they have issues around security, with the death of OBL, its sent the message out to the enemies of America that assassination is not of the table. Who is to say America won’t take the opportunity for talks and use them to assassinate the leaders of the Taliban? There are a multitude of other problems for the Taliban, what about influence form the ISI or appearing week to their current members. Then we also have to remember that there is more than one insurgent group in Afghanistan who is going to represent them, and what happens to those who oppose the Taliban, are the Taliban also going to have to engage in talks between them.

I really do believe that negotiation is the only way forward for Afghanistan , currently as I see it there are 3 big problems in Afghanistan; corruption, poppies, insurgents. Under the Taliban both corruption and poppies were talked, the Taliban have public support and have gone on record saying they do not oppose democracy only that they want to “fix the constitution of Afghanistan”. I think we should let them fix it.

S&F



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


Well that's an interesting perspective...



By far the biggest problem as I see it from the American side is a general lack of understanding of the Taliban, not just the misconception of them being the same as Al’Qa’ida but the idea that the Afghan people don’t want them.


The majority don't. This isn't an academic argument. The Afghanistan Northern Alliance were in a civil war with the Taliban. They ruled the country with an iron fist. Many seem to want to ignore that reality. Brutality was the norm in Afghanistan not the exception. Sure, one could argue that that is their right in their country....


Prior to the Taliban taking control of Kabul, Afghanistan was a lawless hell hole, in the first part of 1994


This is where most people like to start when discussing Taliban rule. Afghanistan became that lawless land AFTER the Soviets bombed the hell out of the place on a scale that would make the present occupation seem like a boyscout outing. The US/West dropped the ball after the Soviet pulled out and we stopped our support.

Which helped create the environment from which the Taliban were spawned. That and Pakistan's desire to have influence on their neighbors.


20,000 were killed in fighting amongst war lords. People read about how the Taliban treated women, such as refusing to provide education to girls and blaming Sharia law for this.


I never blamed Sharia law. I've always felt that the Taliban had their own twisted version of Islam....


The truth is the reason the Taliban did not provide education to girls was because they could not afford to.


This is why they have blown up children attending school now? I understand where you're coming from but I see a great weakness in that particular angle....


The reason they reputedly banned the flying of kites was because to fly a kite many went on to roofs and could look down on to women in their back yards were they could bear more flesh in the family home.


I've never heard that angle before. Interesting spin. So this warrants a death penalty?


Sure they were harsh, I don’t agree with Sharia law but under the Taliban there was zero corruption and they massively reduced the poppy trade two of the big factors currently plaguing Afghanistan and the thorn in the side of NATO.


They reduced it for one half of the last year they were in power. Some believe it was because the Heroin market they were involved in was flooded by over production from regions in Afghanistan they were not fully in control of at the time and wanted to raise the price by limiting supply.

It's also funny how many people will blame the CIA for Afghanistan's Heroin issue yet overlook the very real and historical fact that Afghanistan has been in the Opium business/trade long before the CIA ever existed or the other fact that most of the recent heroin production has been coming out the Taliban controlled regions which they have been using the profits from the sales to mostly The Russian mobs [Poetic Justice] to help finance their operations against Western forces.



A perfect example of NATO’s ignorance of the Taliban can be seen during operation Moshtarak they chose that name because it means “joint” or “together”, only problem is that its Dari, the majority of Afghans are Pashtun this ignorance just annoys the locals. One of the greatest insults to a Pushtun is to enter his home uninvited so the night raids by Special Forces against them has to stop,


Meanwhile it is against Afghan OR Pashtun tribal traditions to turn away an uninvited guest. This is how the Taliban hide most of the time. They force themselves on the locals and abuse that very same tradition you mentioned. Which also creates a situation where innocent civilians unrelated to the issue end up in harms way.

They are the victims.

It's hard for anybody to claim the Moral high ground when all involved are standing in the mud.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Some very interesting view points, it is refreshing to discuss this without being under a constant barrage of ignorance and conspiracy so I commend you for that. I can actually see your perspective on most of the points you have raised and I do not have much to add. Like you said, violence in Afghanistan is the norm, it was violent under the Taliban but in my view it was better than the lawlessness that went before and the war before that and I think they may also hold the key to the current problems in Afghanistan. I should make it clear, that it is the Taliban’s interpretation of Sharia law I have a problem with and not Sharia law as a whole.

I thought it was interesting that you raised the Pushtun tradition of Melmastia (hospitality), that does have some conditions such as abandoning ones weapons. However the most famous case I can recall is that of Marcus Luttrel a Navy SEAL who the Pushtuns protected from the Taliban.


EDIT: Just wanted to add, that I find it hard to believe that it was the Taliban responsible for blowing up schools, Mullah Omar has explicitly told his followers that the killings of civilians is not acceptable. There are a number of groups in Afghanistan who are called “Taliban” in the media, even though they are not member’s o the group. Also the Taliban’s level of control the core of the Taliban has is difficult to judge, I think it is fair to say that as a organisation the Taliban would not condone the killing of school children.
edit on 8-6-2011 by kevinunknown because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


Initially the US/West had great success in Afghanistan by supporting the locals and the use of the Special Forces services. Personally, I feel the US/West should just declare victory and pull out. Use our Special Forces assets only when and if they are required in the future to remove any LEGITIMATE targets and be done with it. ...

I do however feel that there is more to this picture than meets the eye. As Western influence and Wealth starts to decline the new area of interest between the rising Dragon [China] not to mention Russian and Indian interests vs the US/West-EU is central Asia and it's vast and largely untapped resources. Afghanistan/Pakistan are on the front line.

Stay tuned.


The New Great Game...?


edit on 8-6-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


I believe that there may have already been talks conducted through a "middle man" between the Taliban and the government but I am failing to find the source. So don't quote me on that.

You bring up some very valid points! I think there is an American mantra that creates a stigma in which talks with these so-called terrorists would be cut off at the knees. We have been trained to fear the very hint of Sharia Law, even when we are not directly effected by it at all, and most people have no clue what it is exactly.




the Taliban have public support and have gone on record saying they do not oppose democracy only that they want to “fix the constitution of Afghanistan”. I think we should let them fix it.


This is the crux of the matter. The Taliban favors a democratic society, but refuses to allow "outsiders" to dictate the form that democracy takes place. I agree with that, its not our place. We should let these people live and govern themselves and quit trying to impose our brand of democracy when our system is just as flawed.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 





If we pull our .s of of our backsides and learn that we cannot police the world....our troops can come home. We must be willing to enter peace talks with them, plain and simple. If we don't, you will get you never-ending war and our troops will continue to die.


No offense but your to naive to think that there will be any real world peace, america is policing the world through Occupying presences in eupore and,Asia middle east.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 

I said nothing about world peace!

There will always be issues with our fellow Man, I am not naive to think otherwise. What I am positing is that we can no longer sustain a never-ending war! Economic and other wise.

Do you have a better solution?



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