It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by confreak
That being said, the lack of random is the main evidence for a creator.
Originally posted by Terrormaster
Ok, lets look at this a little more scientifically. You say there's no such thing as random, that everything has a cause. You use that for your argument that there is a creator. So given that fact lets look at it this way. If everything has a cause then what caused the creator? What actions caused the creator to come into being? Then what actions caused that action and so on?
The most common answer from theists is that the creator just was, always has been and always will be. So if the creator doesn't need to have a cause then why does the universe? Why do so many theists so readily believe that there is no way for the universe to have always been so some magic invisible man in the sky must have created it. But in the same breath you aren't allowed to apply that same logic to the magic invisible man himself? Does not compute.
Originally posted by confreak
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
Well if randomness doesn't exist, then the Universe wasn't formed randomly, that's what we are talking about, I don't know why I lure myself back in.edit on 8-6-2011 by confreak because: (no reason given)
argumentum ad ignorantiam
I've stated that this is evidence, and I provided the definition of evidence in my first post. I'm not making a logical statement, I'm posting evidence.
If you read my first post, it was in response to an individual claiming there isn't any evidence supporting a creator. I'm saying there is.edit on 8-6-2011 by confreak because: (no reason given)
Which is why I gave a comparison, hence spaghetti falling from the sky can be used as evidence to support the existence of a flying spaghetti monster, just like the lack of random can be used as evidence to support an unrandom universe, a Universe which is created as it is, and not formed randomly. Everything we know up to date supports this.edit on 8-6-2011 by confreak because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by confreak
argumentum ad ignorantiam
I've stated that this is evidence, and I provided the definition of evidence in my first post. I'm not making a logical statement, I'm posting evidence.
Originally posted by MrFake
Here's the thing:
Religious people believe in God.
Atheists believe there is no god.
Neither side has the facts to prove what they say is true.
Therefore, it all comes down to faith.
Atheism is a religion whether the atheists want to admit it or not.
In the end, we're all the same. We just have faith in different beliefs.
the service and worship of God or the supernatural
a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
Originally posted by Leahn
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
I do not call atheism a religion anymore. I, however, call it a worldview.
Originally posted by Leahn
Because the Universe has a demonstrable beginning. We have entropy and we have cosmic background radiation and that tells us that the Universe does not simply just was, always has been and always will be.
Originally posted by Leahn
On the other hand, there is no demonstrable beginning for God, at least not one that I know of.
Originally posted by Kwyjibo
To Buttercookie sorry i was not born an atheist and I"m sorry if I exlempify that position but you are wrong, and without being too belligernent about it, I would accept more from you. Also "Thewalkingfox" is full of a bunch of crap, forgive my language, your philosophical argument is full of holes. And I don't mean that as any love to you guys, but you're a bunch of egocentric assholes who don't know what they're talking about and to heck with the reality of this crap.
Edit to add, my use of the real use of your sucks
edit on 8-6-2011 by Kwyjibo because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Leahn
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
No, that is what it should be, and what atheists like to pretend it is. It isn't. It is a very easily recognizable worldview.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's true that religion and atheism have some commonality, in that they are beliefs and neither is proven.
But there has been conjecture that the universe is constantly expanding and contracting over time so immense we can't even fathom it. Much like a star that collapses after expending all of it's the fuel whats to say the universe doesn't do the same then collapse into another big bang?