Atheism

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posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by confreak
 



Originally posted by confreak
FACT
There is no such thing as random


Falsehood. What do you call genetic mutations?



EVIDENCE FOR GOD
There is no such thing as random


How is that evidence for a deity?

DEFINE EVIDENCE
facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.



If nothing is random in this Universe (evidence says nothing random), then that proves the existence of a creator.


How?



If the Universe was to be restarted like a computer, a different Universe will not be created (everything will be exactly 100% the same), because it is designed.


Where's your evidence of this? I'm sorry, but 'ideas extracted from the sphincter' don't count as something that is a fact.




posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by MrFake

Atheism is a religion whether the atheists want to admit it or not.


That's not true, Atheism is simply a word that is used to describe people who don't subscribe to there being a God.

Atheist do not pray, they do not congregate to give praise to any God, they do not base there lives around a "Holy" text.

Atheism isn't a religion at all.
edit on 8-6-2011 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Gays are being denied rights because some people are stupid. It has nothing to do with religion. In the past, those without a property were denied rights, then black people were denied rights, then women were denied rights, and now gays are being denied rights. Nothing of this has anything to do whatsoever with religion, and everything to do with tribalism and fear of losing an apparent position of power. As a member of ATS, you should know better than to accept any political stance at its face value.

The leading cause of death on children from ages 1 to 14 is unnintentional accidents. Together with cancer, it accounts for over 60% of the deaths. Source

I don't have the statistics of how many children die because of neglected care of their parents due to their religious beliefs, but given the certainty you speak about it, I'd like to know if you do, and I'd like to see they presented so we can see if it is greater or worse than, let's say, death by accidents on swimming pools. Maybe we will end up concluding that we would do much better by banning swimming pools instead.

And opposing religion also violates the First Amendment. We do have the right of freedom of religion, did you forget?

reply to post by predator0187
 



I embrace learning, religious people frown on it. There was a time when religion was the be all and end all, and it was called the dark ages for a reason.


Yes, they call it dark ages because we have very few records of those years. Or did you think it was for another reason? Like... a myth created by a 19th century novelist saying that religion prevented scientific progress?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Oh, great. Another thread where someone gets angered that atheists have an opinion and maybe like to express it. I mean, that should never happen, especially in a forum where lots of religion is discussed.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by MrFake

Atheism is a religion whether the atheists want to admit it or not.


That's not true, Atheism is simply a word that is used to describe people who don't subscribe to there being a God.

Atheist do not pray, they do not congregate to give praise to any God, they do not base there lives around a "Holy" text.

Atheism isn't a religion at all.
edit on 8-6-2011 by Logical one because: (no reason given)


You know, for a website with a motto of 'deny ignorance', the amount of ignorance of atheism spread around this board is astonishing. It's nearly too much to keep up with and in many ways is like trying to hold back the tide.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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Actually....at this moment in time, I don't know what I am!!!!

I am in between religions right now. I have went through 12 denominations so far. I read there is over 30,000 religions structured on the bible. So ..I have a long way to go to find (That one) that I believe is the right one.

I fear that will not happen...Sigh



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Mutation is not random, it is caused by different processes. You might perceive it as random, but that makes it pseudo random.

If true randomness doesn't exists, the universe was designed. How is that regarded as evidence of a creator? I gave you the definition of evidence.

It is like a flying spaghetti monster, if spaghetti is falling from the sky, that is partial evidence supporting the flying spaghetti monster. Since nothing is random in this Universe, that is "the main" evidence of a creator.



If the Universe is restarted, the same exact Universe will be produced, nothing will be different. Evidence that it was created as it is, and not formed randomly.

That being said, before bed time take some sleeping pills, you'll need it tonight.
edit on 8-6-2011 by confreak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by confreak
If true randomness doesn't exists, the universe was designed.


That doesn't follow.

To prove a designed universe you need positive evidence, not an if/then argument based on unsupported assertions.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by confreak
If true randomness doesn't exists, the universe was designed.


That doesn't follow.

To prove a designed universe you need positive evidence, not an if/then argument based on unsupported assertions.


FACT
There is no such thing as random.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by confreak

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by confreak
If true randomness doesn't exists, the universe was designed.


That doesn't follow.

To prove a designed universe you need positive evidence, not an if/then argument based on unsupported assertions.


FACT
There is no such thing as random.


Even if I granted that premise it does not mean that the universe was designed. Your argument rests entirely on the logical fallacy of the argument from ignorance.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by confreak
FACT
There is no such thing as random.


You gotta be kidding.

What is a mutation?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by MrFake
 





Atheism is a religion whether the atheists want to admit it or not.



re·li·gion    [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA –noun

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

I do not believe there is a christian god so in the respect of xtianity ,If I am to give myself a label then Atheist will do.

I do not have a set of beliefs, I do not know the cause or purpose, if any of the universe,

I am not always in agreement with other people that happen to also not believe there is an xtian god.

Being an atheist does not require a set of beliefs as atheism rejects a particular belief, atheism has no dogma nor content , no superhuman elements , no requirements, no leadership, nor supernatural figureheads, no organisation.

Atheism is simple not believing in a god, in relation to Islam a christian is an atheists, I and others like me just go one god further.

The claim that atheism is a religion normally goes hand in hand with the claim that atheism is a belief. Both childish notions normally spew from the mouths of ignorant bible bashers who, like good little sheepl got it from some puffed up pastor that they worship on Sunday morning, before they hand over their money in a state of self induced stupor.
edit on 8-6-2011 by The Djin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Leahn
 





Gays are being denied rights because some people are stupid. It has nothing to do with religion


Did you miss the bit where religious people are required to accept the convictions of another man without any evidence whatsoever and or when evidence completely contradicts the conviction ?

Now that is downright stupid, do I need to say anymore ?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Errr....mutations are not random.

There is no such thing as random. True randomness cannot exist, because everything must always have a cause. Why do you think that it is practically impossible to make a REAL random number generator (for all you computer programmers out there)? You cannot possibly EVER have a result that is completely independant of the cause or stuff that came before it (which would be the definition of random). The best you can do is pseudo-random.

Genetic mutations are not random. They are just CALLED random because we don't know the cause, or we can't detect it. Minute effects of background radiation, unknown background noise of the universe, whatever, it's not really random.

I think what confreak is trying to say is that if randomness cannot exist (which it can't), then there must have been a CAUSE (although confreak is calling this cause "intelligent design").



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


No, I don't want you to grant that for me, I want you argue and whine about how random the Universe is, and bring some evidence of randomness.

Rolling a dice doesn't produce a random result, just like flipping a coin.

That being said, the lack of random is the main evidence for a creator. Which proves the Universe was created this way, and didn't form through random as believed by some. If the Universe is restarted hundred times, the same exact results will be produced, just like your computer which you are using.

I have laid my evidence down, anyone can read it, you can write a counter if you want, I will leave you alone.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Actually, atheism is not a religion. Religions are systems of beliefs in which there are rituals and rules, and a deity to worship.

An atheist does not bow to or worship any deity, does not practice any system of rituals, and there are no 'rules' to follow.

You are correct that neither side has tangible facts. But philosophy (this topic) states that one side is wrong. Therefore, one side has more logic and critical thought in their assertions.


It can be argued that science is based on rituals and rules of a different sort. Religion doesn't always follow a deity. Sometimes it can be more that one (Poly), or a deity that needs no worship (Pantheism, deism). Some religions are based on philosophies (Tao, Buddhism) and science (or atheism) can be looked at as a philosophy itself.

I think your confusion (many make the same mistake) lies in the fact that it seems that you equate theism with religion, when in fact theism is just a sect.

I find it hard to "label" myself when it comes to what I exactly follow, but Panentheism or Panendeism are probably closest.
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posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by confreak
 




FACT There is no such thing as random


So an invisible man in the sky chooses lottery winners


It's Wednesday I better be a good boy and get on my knees for god.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by brilab45
 





Yes Virginia, there is a God. God resides within us all. Our bodies are nothing more than temporary. Our souls live on forever.


Who told you this ?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by Leahn
 





Gays are being denied rights because some people are stupid. It has nothing to do with religion


Did you miss the bit where religious people are required to accept the convictions of another man without any evidence whatsoever and or when evidence completely contradicts the conviction ?

Now that is downright stupid, do I need to say anymore ?


Yes, I believe you need to say more. I do not understand your point.


Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by confreak
 




FACT There is no such thing as random


So an invisible man in the sky chooses lottery winners


It's Wednesday I better be a good boy and get on my knees for god.


No, he did not meant to say that God predetermines everything. He meant to say that what we usually call "random" is not really random. It is just the deterministic result of causes we do not know how to account for. The flipping of a coin is not random. It is the result of the strenght you used to flip the coin, the initial side it was, the drag on the air that controlled the speed of its spin, and that's just what I can think of from the top of my mind. If we could control and account for all those factors, we could successfully determine the outcome of all coin flips, therefore they're not random.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Ok, lets look at this a little more scientifically. You say there's no such thing as random, that everything has a cause. You use that for your argument that there is a creator. So given that fact lets look at it this way. If everything has a cause then what caused the creator? What actions caused the creator to come into being? Then what actions caused that action and so on?

The most common answer from theists is that the creator just was, always has been and always will be. So if the creator doesn't need to have a cause then why does the universe? Why do so many theists so readily believe that there is no way for the universe to have always been so some magic invisible man in the sky must have created it. But in the same breath you aren't allowed to apply that same logic to the magic invisible man himself? Does not compute.





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