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Atheism

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posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I'll add an addendum, absence of evidence is evidence of absence when evidence should be present.

There is an absence of evidence for a global flood in the places we should find it, therefore it is an evidence of absence.


Except that there IS evidence of a worldwide flood. Here's just one of many sites on this:

www.earthage.org...

You can read it and choose not to believe it, but your personal take does not dictate that it isn't (or is) factual. This is why so many believer vs. unbeliever debates are pointless, it all comes down to what each of us believes. It's hard for any of us to consider evidence that doesn't support our views, so we'd rather just dismiss it as "poppycock". Both sides are guilty of this. Personally I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, I believe in God, but I believe He is so far beyond our understanding that much of our beliefs about Him are inaccurate.




posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Thanks for that perspective; i guess it depends on the context;

I feel that phrase would be more appropriately suited, for example, in the context for the search for extra-terrestrial life. I'm more inclined to use that phrase purely on the basis of probability and empirical evidence from telescopes.

In a philosophy of religion context, as much as i dislike the assumption of the "creator" deity. I would still have to assert Sagan's phrase, even if I believe it's an assumption with a lack of logic or (current) empirical evidence; hence my agnostic atheism.

In regards to theism; i'm more inclined to declare (as you say) absence of evidence IS evidence of absence because it's impossible to move from the Deist to the Theist position without a cunning act of inferrance through verbal conjuring or cold reading.

Sorry if i'm droning on, just, it's very rare we respond to each other, and it's usually more than a learning experience for me when we disagree.

edit on 9/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by SavedOne
 





and there's ample proof that He existed not just in the Bible but also in secular sources. Here's a blurb from y-jesus.com... :


Ah, another one claiming "Proof"

A ministry is not a secular source my friend.

There is not a single contemporary historical mention of Jesus (the one that appears in the gospels), not by Romans or by Jews, not by believers or by unbelievers, during his alleged entire lifetime.

However there were plenty of Jesi wondering about Palestine in the first century perhaps one of these was your man -

Josephus, the first century Jewish historian mentions no fewer than nineteen different Jesus about half of them contemporaries of the supposed Christ!
In his Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus and Jesus ben Gamaliel. Even Saint Paul makes reference to a rival magician, preaching ‘another Jesus’

Jesus ben Sirach.

Jesus ben Pandira.
A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus this Jesus launched into a career of end-time prophecy and agitation which upset the king. He met his own premature end-time by being hung on a tree – and on the eve of a Passover. Scholars have speculated this Jesus founded the Essene sect.

Jesus ben Ananias. He prophesied
"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against the whole people."

Jesus ben Saphat.

Jesus ben Gamala.

Jesus ben Thebuth


Jesus ben Stada was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache. He met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. And given the scale that Roman retribution could reach – at the height of the siege of Jerusalem the Romans were crucifying upwards of five hundred captives a day before the city walls – dead heroes called Jesus would) have been thick on the ground. Not one merits a full-stop in the great universal history. Courtesy John Humphries

edit on 9-6-2011 by The Djin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I feel, if you havn't already, you should write about your experience, share it, start a thread with just that title.


Ahhhhhhhhhhh - - but then I'd have to include my OBE's I've had since birth. And the one where a tall man in a long white robe came to me and told me I could not "fly" anymore. That it was confusing me living in two worlds (the spirit world and the physical world).

Tell that experience and then say you are an Atheist.


I think that would result in too much confusion for some.
edit on 9-6-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 



Ahhhhhhhhhhh - - but then I'd have to include my OBE's I've had since birth. And the one where a tall man in a long white robe came to me and told me I could not "fly" anymore. That it was confusing me living in two worlds (the spirit world and the physical world).


Who said atheists couldn't be "spiritual" or share "experiences"?



I think that would result in too much confusion for some.


Perhaps so, though it can't cause any more confusion than organised religion has thus far!
Quite the opposite! Perhaps it will bring clarity to many, or help others in sharing their experiences as atheists.

Get it shared Annie!

edit on 9/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by UB2120

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by UB2120
Science lives by the mathematics of the mind; music expresses the tempo of the emotions. Religion is the spiritual rhythm of the soul in time-space harmony with the higher and eternal melody measurements of Infinity. Religious experience is something in human life which is truly supermathematical.


Excuse me, but....WHAT?

I know that this neo-guru screed is supposed to sound deep but it's a bunch of stuff you've made up accompanied by words you made up that don't correlate with the way we know the universe works. In a response acknowledging that you need to provide proof of your claims you've now made even more claims that require even more evidence and/or proof. Souls? Supermathematics? Eternal melody measurements of infinity? Seriously?



Ok, I will make it a little easier for you. What about what we call life? Life can only spring from pre-existant life. So where did life originate if not God?


Life itself is not unique, and does not come from a 'loving' god.

Everything, from the oxygen you breathe, to the grass on the ground.....the gold in your jewelry to the blood in your body....

EVERYTHING

is a remnant of a star. A supernova explosion, essentially produced what you would consider 'life'.

You are actually made up of the same substances as the computer you are typing on....but the elements are in different degrees and in different forms than you.

Humans consider 'life' to mean 'consciously aware'.....needing oxygen to survive.

We assume that if it is anything like US, then it is alive or intelligent.

That is arrogance.

More than likely, what we call 'life' is probably just a common element throughout the universe. We want to think of it is 'special' or unique because human arrogance has us feeling that way. Since everything, literally, is a result of an exploded star, compare the elements of you and a star:

Iron
Calcium
Magnesium
Carbon
Hydrogen
Nitrogen
Plasma
Sodium
Potassium
Oxygen

etc.....

everything except helium.

The answer to your question? Life is the bonding of particular elements. Nothing 'unique'.

That sounds a lil' harsh, I know....but we have to realize that we are only unique to ourselves.


You are absolutely right, we are made of the same stuff as our star. From the world we live on to our physical bodies, but all that is just lifeless matter. Living cells are different than dead cells, yet they are both physically the same. Life is endowed, as is mind, they are not inherent in matter.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by kerazeesicko
 


You like Bill Maher????? If you are white, black, male, female, handicapped, conservative, religious in any way, moral, any one of these things, you should be offended and disgusted by at least something he says every show. If you are a raging liberal who was raised genderless, doesn't see color, a superior human being, who has learned the answer to everything in the universe therefore being able to negate God's existence through sheer mind-power, then maybe you could like Bill Maher (but still not be able to find him funny, as he is not.)



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by BrianC
reply to post by kerazeesicko
 


You like Bill Maher????? If you are white, black, male, female, handicapped, conservative, religious in any way, moral, any one of these things, you should be offended and disgusted by at least something he says every show. If you are a raging liberal who was raised genderless, doesn't see color, a superior human being, who has learned the answer to everything in the universe therefore being able to negate God's existence through sheer mind-power, then maybe you could like Bill Maher (but still not be able to find him funny, as he is not.)


Oh Gawd!

"Liberal" - - - the Catch All Bucket - - - for everything conservative fundamentalists don't agree with.



posted on Jun, 9 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Doesn't make it not true
he's a douche, sorry. And yes I am a Republican for the most part but I still find his ideas idiotic and his humor as impossible to prove as God. I'm agnostic, humans don't have the capacity to understand God, at least I surely can't. But any human can see a piece of trash for what it is (when its this obvious) and that's why the idea of someone liking Bill Maher confuses me.

Besides, the reasoning behind Maher's atheism is somewhat available. He had very religious (Jewish I believe) parents and then for some reason the family lost faith. Something big happened in his life that he and his family disagreed with so much that they denied God. His dad was still somewhat open to religion and hadn't completely given up on it and then he died. This is when Maher became a hardcore atheist. He's an atheist because it helps him cope. A lot of gay people are atheists because they cannot understand why Christians consider them to be evil for their sexuality. They know in their hearts that they are good people and eventually many of them become enraged and cope with the hardship by denying God. "If I am a gay person and God says I'm evil, while I know that I am not, then he must be fake" or something along those lines. Basically, most atheists are atheists because they need to be, they need it to move on from pain or intolerance. The reason I say that is because atheism is illogical. So is a belief in God, there is no concrete proof of God's existence. It is seemingly impossible to disprove God and since we still have many unanswered questions the possibility of God is a real one. Therefore, agnosticism is the only truly logical choice since as far as facts go it is the most scientifically sound. I tend to side with believers though since they generally(!) tend to be more moral in my opinion.
edit on 9-6-2011 by BrianC because: adding



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by BrianC
 





A lot of gay people are atheists because they cannot understand why Christians consider them to be evil for their sexuality.


So, someone polled every gay person on the planet and concluded that if xtians didn't consider them evil a big chunk of them would be christians ???

Why do I get the feeling you just made that one up ?

Dude, wrap your mind around this- A child is born an Atheist some of these little atheists are brainwashed by deluded people into believing there is an invisible man that lives in the sky, talking snake and all that,

Some of these poor souls spend a lifetime wrestling with the implanted idea that the invisible man that lives sky hates the hell out of their natural thoughts and impulses and will be toasting them over hot coals for eternity.


Some of the luckier ones manage to acquire a little more education and common sense dumping this childish nonsense in favor of living guilt free and as who they are.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by BrianC
A lot of gay people are atheists because they cannot understand why Christians consider them to be evil for their sexuality.


Every gay person I've known - - considered themselves Christian.

Bill Maher considers himself Agnostic - - not Atheist.

Your posts are very delusional.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by BrianC
 





The reason I say that is because atheism is illogical.


Another ignorant pile,

Again dude, every child is born an atheist it is no matter of logic, the child is taught to believe things as it grows unfortunately some of the things it is taught are completely untrue or are not backed by any corroborating evidence whatsoever.


What is illogical is to teach a child there are no monsters in the closet but at the same time teach it there are monsters in their mind.

As child abuse goes, christianity has to be one of the most insidious examples because it is not only considered to be socially acceptable but it has forcibly demanded reverence.

The evidence to back up this claim ? -

The most religious nation on this earth, allegedly 80% Christian and the majority of those christians claim it is a christian nation, happens to also be the most violent sociopathic nation on this earth.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by SavedOne
 


Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I'll add an addendum, absence of evidence is evidence of absence when evidence should be present.

There is an absence of evidence for a global flood in the places we should find it, therefore it is an evidence of absence.


Except that there IS evidence of a worldwide flood. Here's just one of many sites on this:

www.earthage.org...


I've seen all of this before and I'll see it again. I've also addressed it before. Go to my threads and look for a thread about the "Whole Silly Flood Story".

Before clicking it I'm going to guess it mentions:
The Grand Canyon
Polystrate trees
Turkey
Fossils being rapidly buried
And hydrologic sorting.


Wow, Polystrate trees are the first thing up.
Addressed here:



Fossilization is up next...it's just wrong. In fact, everything here is such old hat that I'd just suggest going here because it has a refutation of every single damn point. What's crazier is that it goes into detail, cites a lot of scientific papers, and has hardly needed to be updated in the last five-six years. Hell, a lot of the articles which debunk the claims in the link you provided me are over a decade old.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by SavedOne
 


All of those things in the external source...provide verification please. I'd like to see the actual original citation, not just the words of some random internet apologist.

I actually know for a fact that all of that was a fabrication. There isn't a single contemporaneous account of Jesus. Not one.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by BrianC
 


How many times am I going to say this: agnostics are atheists!

You don't believe in god? That makes you an atheist. If you believe in god, you're either a deist or a theist. If you don't believe in god, you're an atheist. The machine is either on or off.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by BrianC
 





A lot of gay people are atheists because they cannot understand why Christians consider them to be evil for their sexuality.


So, someone polled every gay person on the planet and concluded that if xtians didn't consider them evil a big chunk of them would be christians ???

Why do I get the feeling you just made that one up ?

Dude, wrap your mind around this- A child is born an Atheist some of these little atheists are brainwashed by deluded people into believing there is an invisible man that lives in the sky, talking snake and all that,

Some of these poor souls spend a lifetime wrestling with the implanted idea that the invisible man that lives sky hates the hell out of their natural thoughts and impulses and will be toasting them over hot coals for eternity.


Some of the luckier ones manage to acquire a little more education and common sense dumping this childish nonsense in favor of living guilt free and as who they are.



Children, when first learning to make use of language, are prone to think out loud, to express their thoughts in words, even if no one is present to hear them. With the dawn of creative imagination they evince a tendency to converse with imaginary companions. In this way a budding ego seeks to hold communion with a fictitious alter ego. By this technique the child early learns to convert his monologue conversations into pseudo dialogues in which this alter ego makes replies to his verbal thinking and wish expression. Very much of an adult’s thinking is mentally carried on in conversational form.

The early and primitive form of prayer was much like the semimagical recitations of the present-day Toda tribe, prayers that were not addressed to anyone in particular. But such techniques of praying tend to evolve into the dialogue type of communication by the emergence of the idea of an alter ego. In time the alter-ego concept is exalted to a superior status of divine dignity, and prayer as an agency of religion has appeared. Through many phases and during long ages this primitive type of praying is destined to evolve before attaining the level of intelligent and truly ethical prayer.

As it is conceived by successive generations of praying mortals, the alter ego evolves up through ghosts, fetishes, and spirits to polytheistic gods, and eventually to the One God, a divine being embodying the highest ideals and the loftiest aspirations of the praying ego. And thus does prayer function as the most potent agency of religion in the conservation of the highest values and ideals of those who pray. From the moment of the conceiving of an alter ego to the appearance of the concept of a divine and heavenly Father, prayer is always a socializing, moralizing, and spiritualizing practice.

The simple prayer of faith evidences a mighty evolution in human experience whereby the ancient conversations with the fictitious symbol of the alter ego of primitive religion have become exalted to the level of communion with the spirit of the Infinite and to that of a bona fide consciousness of the reality of the eternal God and Paradise Father of all intelligent creation.

Aside from all that is superself in the experience of praying, it should be remembered that ethical prayer is a splendid way to elevate one’s ego and reinforce the self for better living and higher attainment. Prayer induces the human ego to look both ways for help: for material aid to the subconscious reservoir of mortal experience, for inspiration and guidance to the superconscious borders of the contact of the material with the spiritual.

Prayer ever has been and ever will be a twofold human experience: a psychologic procedure interassociated with a spiritual technique. And these two functions of prayer can never be fully separated.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by BrianC
 


How many times am I going to say this: agnostics are atheists!

You don't believe in god? That makes you an atheist. If you believe in god, you're either a deist or a theist. If you don't believe in god, you're an atheist. The machine is either on or off.


Which god do you speak of? God is a loaded word with many meanings. To be agnostic is to be unsure either way; it is a stance of indifference due to lack of knowledge, or lack of proof either way. Atheism is a belief that there is no god. I don't agree with the "it's either this or that" which to me is a black and white way of seeing things.
edit on 10-6-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
Atheism is a belief that there is no god.


Not really. Atheism is a disbelief that there are gods. There is a subtle difference between not believing in gods and believing there are no gods; that is, one makes a positive claim and the other doesn't.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Actually nevermind, as I missed the point entirely when I first posted the reply. I see what you are saying...that a belief (postive) in something is not the same as disbelief (negative) in something.
edit on 10-6-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by BrianC
 



A lot of gay people are atheists because they cannot understand why Christians consider them to be evil for their sexuality


This is what the original doctrine states;-


You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)


Some believe the bible is "holy", but there's seems to be two apparent possibilities:-

a) The bible is the word of God, God is homophobic.
b) Ancient men were homophobic.

The Christian faith is founded on these doctrines, and reformed and updating by men, quite often changing with social evolution.

It's very easy to understand why a homosexual person might question the Christian faith, although like many "moderates" they chose which parts to accept and which parts to refuse, so it's not a valid claim that "most gays" are atheist, or this is the reason for them being atheist.
edit on 10/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



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