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Either God is not Love or Yahweh is not God.

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posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


I don't respond to ad hominem arguments Bogomil.

Haven't you figured that out yet?

"Argument from evil" IS an irrational way to think.

And the use of "good" is ambiguous when someone views "good" as maximizing pleasure, minimizing pain.




posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Argument from evil.

"Good" to you is defined as "maximizes pleasure, minimizes pain".




well...duhh...yes.

And I don't mean carnal pleasures , but more spiritual pleasures. We have enough as humans, just battling the elements,and trying to sustain ourselves with healthy food ,and medicines.

That should be enough .."pain" , or negativity that a human has to work against , and it would unite them in a positive way...if we weren't dealing with the "pains" we inflict upon each other , in many various degrees.

Seems to me the God of your bible , this "omnipresent" God, promises a life of "NO PAIN" ,as reward? For what ? enduring a life full of it? When you honestly think about it, this God does seem to portray some rather masochistic type tendencies , which I find rather distasteful ,and quite sad.
edit on 10-6-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


What if God's idea of what is best for you is to build your character and not maximize your pleasure and minimize your pain? What if patience is learned by tribulations in life? What if the adage "no pain, no gain" were in fact true??



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by bogomil
 


I don't respond to ad hominem arguments Bogomil.

Haven't you figured that out yet?

"Argument from evil" IS an irrational way to think.

And the use of "good" is ambiguous when someone views "good" as maximizing pleasure, minimizing pain.


Please don't tell me your one of those freaks who thinks pain is good....depending on what kind of pain, and what we learn from it. How can you dare say , that children who suffer pain because of neglect,emotional, psychological ,and physical abuse ... and who carry deep scars within from childhood into adulthood, can possibly view this "pain" ,as something good.

I am not saying some pain does not have it's purpose,as it can teach us compassion , but to say ALL pain can be viewed as good, is stretching it a bit far.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 



Please don't tell me your one of those freaks who thinks pain is good....


"Freaks"? LOL (I'll let that one slide)

Yes, some pain is beneficial. I went through a lot of pain in practice for sports, it made me a better athlete. I went through a lot of pain in basic training, it made me a better soldier. People say "no pain, no gain" for a reason. Sometimes in order to go to a higher level you need to wade through some pain.

But what do I know, I'm just a "freak" right?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by gabby2011
 


What if God's idea of what is best for you is to build your character and not maximize your pleasure and minimize your pain? What if patience is learned by tribulations in life? What if the adage "no pain, no gain" were in fact true??


OH for cryin out loud
If you think God is trying to teach a 3 year old patience, by having them sexually sexually service adults all day long, because some slave owner is making a living off of it..well then I think your God is a sadistic, masochistic loser.

Any deity who can stop these horrendous types of slavery from happening,and chooses not to, because of patience learned , is not someone who gets my respect.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 



OH for cryin out loud If you think God is trying to teach a 3 year old patience, by having them sexually sexually service adults all day long, because some slave owner is making a living off of it..well then I think your God is a sadistic, masochistic loser.


Are you kidding me? Did I say anything about that crap at all? Of course that would be disgusting. Way to completely straw man someone.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by bogomil
 


I don't respond to ad hominem arguments Bogomil.

Haven't you figured that out yet?

"Argument from evil" IS an irrational way to think.

And the use of "good" is ambiguous when someone views "good" as maximizing pleasure, minimizing pain.


So in the future we can expect to see such statements from you as: "The snake told Eve a lie" presented as a relative (depending on perspective) rather than an inclusive absolute?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by gabby2011
 


What if God's idea of what is best for you is to build your character and not maximize your pleasure and minimize your pain? What if patience is learned by tribulations in life? What if the adage "no pain, no gain" were in fact true??


All based on premises, which are totally rejected by atheism (and similar positions).



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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I would like to present a public excuse for a sentence, I wrote in a recent post here:

Quote from myself: ["Whatever. The place you refer to says, that Paulus is a queer fish, but you have to listen to him on a principle of authority, because you're too dumb to understand anything yourself."]

It was imprecisely formulated and could lead to the impression, that I directed it at some specified person(s) on ATS. My intention was a reference to those people in Peter 2, who found Paulus confusing; .....at that time.

So no living person(s) was intended to be targeted by 'too dumb'.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You wrote:

[" People say "no pain, no gain" for a reason. Sometimes in order to go to a higher level you need to wade through some pain."]

Yes...sometimes. It depends on the context.

But before pain is validated as a useful part of a 'spiritual path', the 'spiritual path' as a whole must be examined. It's a scam to push 'methods' on people, if they don't know the whole picture and its implications.

edit on 10-6-2011 by bogomil because: grammar



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by gabby2011
 



OH for cryin out loud If you think God is trying to teach a 3 year old patience, by having them sexually sexually service adults all day long, because some slave owner is making a living off of it..well then I think your God is a sadistic, masochistic loser.


Are you kidding me? Did I say anything about that crap at all? Of course that would be disgusting. Way to completely straw man someone.



Way to completely dodge the the real issue we are talking about from the beginning...the pain that I mentioned that many innocent children endure everyday. The pain that you said was all for a purpose ,and who are we to say pain isn't really something good.

You look like an idiot now,dodging the same remark I made at the very beginning of this....debate?
Just because I didn't go into detail about the suffering of so many innocents , you felt it was ok to dump all that sort of "pain" into the "good pain" analogy?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 



Way to completely dodge the the real issue we are talking about from the beginning...


Yes, you're right, my fault. Forget what I said earlier about argument from evil.

Yep, it's all God's fault.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


You're absolutely right, I'm 105% wrong.

Anything else you'd like to discuss?



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by gabby2011
 



Way to completely dodge the the real issue we are talking about from the beginning...


Yes, you're right, my fault. Forget what I said earlier about argument from evil.

Yep, it's all God's fault.


geez..

Once again you prove your immaturity ,and twist things around. I didn't say it was Gods fault...but I did say he sure isn't doing a helluva lot to stop it either. Seems odd that he would even need prayers from people before he acted on behalf of them.

Can't imagine my children having to pray to me before I stepped in and saved them from catastrophe or death.

Just saying.....



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


I agree, totally.

Star for you.



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Thanks, but I have never felt the need or desire for a star..

take care



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Thanks, but I have never felt the need or desire for a star..

take care



So humble.

Another is deserved.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011


Seems to me the God of your bible , this "omnipresent" God, promises a life of "NO PAIN" ,as reward? For what ? enduring a life full of it? When you honestly think about it, this God does seem to portray some rather masochistic type tendencies , which I find rather distasteful ,and quite sad.
edit on 10-6-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

What are you talking about? Oh, I assume, the afterlife...
The point is, however, that 99% of the pain we experience in the world, is inflicted by our fellow humans! What do you want God to do about that? Get rid of them for you?
But what if they're asking the same about you? It's like the whole praying about rain thing.
Doug prays for rain, because he wants his garden to flourish.
Libby prays that it won't rain so that she and her fellow office workers can have a picnic.
God says "huh"? (In reality, weather is a chaotic system that God simply lets work as it will, and has no interest in prayers about it.)
Right now, there are a few humans I would seriously like to have rendered unable to act.. the point is, they may well say the same about me!

When one of my sons was 5 and his brother was 15, they both came to me on the same evening (when they had been bickering for 12 hours straight!) and accused me of loving the other one better.
So what do you want God to do?



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 03:04 AM
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Would you say that Christians are less intelligent?

..more likely to believe and follow something because their parents and community believed it?
..more likely to be apologetic and piece together an illogical story to fit their flawed paradigm of how the world works?
..stubborn when it comes to researching the history of the formation of Christianity and character of Jesus?
..make up statistics about how people and God are?
..more likely to identify God as a male -- or Caucasian?

The most prominent historical Jesus was probably Apollonius of Tarsus, a Neo-Pythagorean scientific doctor and world religionist. He was in many ways opposite to his Christians today.

Ask what Jesus would do? You've got to know who Jesus was first.



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