Concerning: Kitchen Waste To Be Used As 'Organic' Fertilizers

Greetings to all..Yesterday in a local paper in North Wales, the UK I came across a small artical proudly explaining a new scheme in the area for the council to collect kitchen scraps to compost into, somehow, 'organic' fertilizers for thousands of acres of land that grow local produce.
I was unable to find the exact artical mentioned, but was able to find one that gives at least some details of this ohh so grand plan:

www.dailypost.co.uk...
The problems that I have with this whole idea are mainly that the average person does not know basics to composting, let alone eat organically to contribute at all beneficially to this, so everything will get put into the brown collection bins including plenty of GMO products and bi products, chemicals such as MSG and Aspertame, artificial colourings, flavourings etc.. I grew up in a very enviromentally conscious family, with a wildcrafter and organic gardener as my father, I was always taught that meats and cooked foods werent meant to go into the composting, especially to be considered organic material.
So how does the government plan on magically transforming this household waste into organic anything??
In posting this, I also wanted to ask fellow ATS members around the world if anywhere else is doing this?
I may be over reacting with this, but I did personally find it rather disturbing information!
Would be nice to read others opinions on this

Why is that concerning?

I do that anyway, it's called compost

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by FullVisionProject


We've had this in the West midlands of England now for about 4 months, the little green 'slop' bins. They've been quiete a talking topic around here. We had the choice of either having them or not. My estate put out a petition against them in our area and to my surprise it won, only on the basis of hygiene.

reply to post by Pockets

I think it is mainly concerning to me because what is being put into the bins for the composting, and that they are classing it organic when it cant possibly be at all organic, and growing our food in GMO waste and an abundance of chemicals that the food is made with initially.. it cant be a good idea, and claiming it is organic is an outright lie really..

reply to post by Wolvo


wow that is excellent that it was won! and suprising..i refuse to contribute and know a few others who wont either, but most just think its a great thing and just dump whatever crap food stuffs they have left in the packet or on their plates and telling them otherwise is rather pointless..but its nice to know im not alone is not thinking its a great step forward

reply to post by FullVisionProject


Hi FullVisionProject, This is exactly the reason why I do not buy compost from the shops, I’ve seen what people put in there green waste bins and it’s not good. I must confess, I am a bit of a compost purist. I make all my own compost and will not add anything to it that i suspect of having chemicals, GM or any other un-natural product. I do not put card or paper in my compost (They add all sorts of Chemicals to paper) and i only add tea after i have split open the bag and removed it (the bag gets disposed of with normal waste)

I am completely organic with my vegetable plot and only use homemade plant feeds (like comfrey and nettle tea) and even my chickens get fed organic pellets (along with special treats such as sweet corn and melon seeds)

Some of my friends think I’m mad... but i think that there are a lot of harmful chemicals out there that are used in everyday products. I believe that it is these chemicals and by-products that are responsible for the increase in diseases, like cancer, and also for the increase in allergies we are seeing. I also believe that they are harmful to the environment and so i like to try and minimise my impact as much as possible. I know that these chemicals are so interwoven into modern society that I can never completely escape their reach, however, I can try and minimise my family’s exposure.

Great post... Star and flag from me

Peace

reply to post by FullVisionProject


I think your reaction is well warranted and your main points are exactly true.

Composting is an important practice but to make it a massive combined effort in this way is just going to end up a cesspool of rotting disgust. I mean real composting is a fermentation process but you can't throw in rotting matter like meat or anything putrid like animal products. This is all aside from the chemical garbage you mentioned.

It sounds like a good idea in theory but I can only see it as people getting rid of their waste which COULD end up making some people sick if it isn't handled properly.

reply to post by FullVisionProject


the letter writer is correct, meats & cooked foods do not belong in an organic waste bin. the good intent is there, people just have to be educated on what is and is not permissible for this type of application.

on the other hand, only those who are concerned about the project will do the right thing. others will toss in whatever they please, or not participate at all.

weekly bin review (before it's tossed in a collection lorrie) would seem necessary. and there are always (in the USA) lots of non-violent prisoners who will gladly do most any task if it means the day out from behind bars and in the sunshine. maybe we could send over some prisoners in a prisoners-for-fertilizer exchange program

reply to post by Muckster


Muckster i thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. You're doing the right thing, don't you worry what others cluck their tongues about you. I wish more folks did like you do. Bless your heart

Of course, you are right to be concerned. This year I bought a trailer full of the city's "compost" and used it not only for the flower beds, but for the first time, in the vegetable beds too. It's been a worry to my mind ever since; knowing how many chemicals people probably used on their lawns and what have you before sending the clippings for composting.

I noticed recently that this city is selling some kind of special composter made exclusively to handle the kind of kitchen waste you wouldn't put in a regular compost; including meats and all table scraps. I am not sure what you are supposed to do with the final composted product tho.

Hi! I live in SC USA and the soil here is completely useless. The soil is hard red clay, sand in some places, and clay mixed with lots of little rocks. Sometimes I have to dig holes with a pick ax to plant things. I fill up the hole with cow manure compost and fire pit ash. Sometimes putting pine bark mulch in to absorb the water and keep something wet against the roots. Then I pray. 50% of things actually make it. We are a droughty area with high heat in the 90s for six to seven months of the year. I started a compost pile of plant trimings, vegtable and fruit waste, shimp husks, coffee grinds, egg shells, and sea shells. My husband uses this material on top of the garden to keep weeds down. In the fall he rotatills it under. Do not put dog poo in your compost pile.

We burn our trash and recycle the glass, cans, newspapers, metals, and plastics. Drycleaning hangers go back to the drycleaners and the plastic containers they use for the plants go back to the plant nurseries.
Many of the plants here come from Egypt and south china to be sold. If SHTF here, many people will leave because of the heat and the poor soil. My husband planted a fish next to each grape vine, and we really ammended the soil and used pine back mulch from the woods to try and keep the ground more moist.
My grandmother was a fabulous gardener in Northern Indiana where they have two feet of black top soil from the glaciers. It really is a trick to garden where the soil is bad. Roses really like out acid soil.

Besides the recycling stations the only other thing they collect is the animal grease from the kitchen/restraunts to make biodiesel. I pour the grease on the fire to burn off stuff or pour it on the compost pile. That was the internet's best advice for where to put it.

I agree... Any idiot should know by now that the food we eat cannot be trusted to grow the... food..... we....... eat... Wow the world really is a messed up place.

Whilst I share the concern about possible chemical content of some kitchen waste, cooked food and waste meat products are really only unsuitable for composting because;

*it can attract rats

*composting times differ between raw and cooked foods or vegetable matter and muscle fibre or bone.

Your council will not be using slow composting methods. Use of commercial wormeries to produce vermicompost, a high quality, high profit growing medium (worm poo) in a relatively short time span.

Home wormeries can be easily made using old car tyres and worms are not expensive, about £20 to start a colony. Obviously, as this would not be a large scale commercial enterprise, I would recommend sticking to traditional composting wisdom and don't include meat waste. I couldn't swear to it but the worms may enjoy a little cooked veggies!

reply to post by Muckster


Really nice to know, and thank you Thats exactly what i have always been taught about compost as well, and i dont think your at all mad, but i know what you mean about those who do..usually they just have no idea!
So many people dont seem to think about chain reactions and what you put into something -especially fruits and veg, and all foods really, is what your going to get back..

reply to post by StrangeBrew


oh gods yeah, i can imagine a lot of damage that could happen as a result of this whole scene, health wise especially in the long run its got to do some serious alterations to plant and human who are subjected to it..not to mention polluting the land itself and the rains washing it into rivers, streams and so on..all scary thoughts

European red wrigglers should do just fine making it into useable compost - and they don't even need to pay to buy them.

everybody in ireland is been encouraged to put these green bins in their back gardens.

the main condition is not to put any meat in it what so ever. not an issue for me because i have dogs and if they see me disposing of any meat they would finish me off :-) you are also supposed to not put any cooked food in it at all including veg.

its been greatly praised, ideal for disposing of veg peelings etc. for a good sized family veg peelings can amount to quite a lot in a week.also fruit, banana skins etc. A lot of people's waste is now disposed of and they are charged by weight. so if you can take all you veg peelings and dump in a 'green compost bin' out the back you will save loads of money.

the only problem with these wonderful green compost bins is 'rats'. and i mean this is a major freaking problem. they attract rats by masses. i know many people who have never seen a rat and a few months after they start using the green compost bins the rats arrive. in their droves. i know people who then went through bucket fulls of posion trying to get rid of the hordes they attracted.

so by trying to be 'green' and compost waste people end up posioning half the local wildlife!

some of these are huge robust re-enforced bins but the rats always get in. they can chew right through and if that fails they will tunnel in underneath the ground.

it might sound like a good idea at the start but it don't work out like that. a lot of people have stopped using them now.

i know of a few places where they also tried large scale collections in certain areas like you describe in the opening thread but most of these encountered similar wildlfe and hygiene issues.

edit to add ( maybe this is what created the new ecoli strain in germany!)

While I certainly understand the concerns about purchasing compost from sources unknown; I see here an abundance of bad information and myth-conceptions. For instance, it seems to be a common idea that meat and cooked vegetables should never be composted. Sorry, this is false.

Meat I can at least understand (as most people really dont understand what compost is, nor how to feed the micro-organisms correctly)...but cooked vegetables?.....whaaat???

Hopefully I can help out here and possibly inspire some to research further, the amazing topic of thermophilic composting.

“The biological decomposition and stabilization of organic substrates, under conditions that allow development of thermophilic temperatures as a result of biologically produced heat, to produce a final product that is stable, free of pathogens and plant seeds, and can be beneficially applied to land.”

Basically, under thermophilic conditions, all known pathogens will die. If one is feeling particularly brave, I suggest reading The Humanure Handbook, by Joseph Jenkins, which goes into great detail on all things compost...and I do mean all.

Originally posted by blood0fheroes
While I certainly understand the concerns about purchasing compost from sources unknown; I see here an abundance of bad information and myth-conceptions. For instance, it seems to be a common idea that meat and cooked vegetables should never be composted. Sorry, this is false.

Meat I can at least understand (as most people really dont understand what compost is, nor how to feed the micro-organisms correctly)...but cooked vegetables?.....whaaat???

Hopefully I can help out here and possibly inspire some to research further, the amazing topic of thermophilic composting.

“The biological decomposition and stabilization of organic substrates, under conditions that allow development of thermophilic temperatures as a result of biologically produced heat, to produce a final product that is stable, free of pathogens and plant seeds, and can be beneficially applied to land.”

Basically, under thermophilic conditions, all known pathogens will die. If one is feeling particularly brave, I suggest reading The Humanure Handbook, by Joseph Jenkins, which goes into great detail on all things compost...and I do mean all.

Of course you are correct; however, I believe most people on here (including myself) are taking the point of view of humble gardeners, not scientists. I do realise that most things are compostable but there are something’s that will upset the balance.

I avoid placing lemons in my compost (we use a lot of lemons) because these will make my compost to acidic. I avoid meat, because if the temperature is not correct in the centre of my heap I could encourage harmful bacteria to grow. Meat in a compost heap also encourages Fox's to come sniffing around and, when you keep chickens, that’s the last thing you need.

I am a gardener and simply want put things on my heap that will break down and be ready for next year’s plants without harming them or encourage pests. The simple way for me to achieve this it to follow a few simple rules... Mix plenty of browns and greens, do not add meat and bones, give my compost a regular mix, do not add man made products, do not place in things that are not biodegradable, DO put in some chicken poop, avoid to many acidic ingredients (citrus fruit, pine needles etc...)

Well that’s the rules i follow and, to be honest, I don’t need to know the science behind it... I just know it works for me.

Peace.

I have composted as long as I can remember when I lived in the country and never had a rat problem. I moved into the centre of town a few years back and ..... you guessed it -- RATS!!

I was shocked one day last year when I was scooping out some really nice compost and down fell a bunch of baby rats. The mother ran away before I realized what happened. When I looked around I realized there were tunnels everywhere; including one that came up under the composter itself.

I drowned the babies and caught the big one in a trap and drowned it too -- ferocious thing it was too! I then made a concrete slab for the composter to sit on, but honestly I think it is suffering from not having contact with the ground and the good creatures from there that eat up the veggie/yard waste. I think the compost is taking much longer to work this year.

I also stopped putting cooked veggies in there because of the probability that they would have some fat/grease on them which would be attractive to the rats. The city has many more nasty creatures to worry about than the country; that is for sure, and I am talking about the 4 legged variety.