Illuminati and Freemasons in cahoots.... , page 3

reply to post by JoshNorton

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Ohh yes it's the back side , here is the other side.

Here is your pyramid and the eye, very close in concept to what came out later.
On what they changed agreed and did not agree as I said is another story.

The seal is Masonic.

The Great Seal of the United States is NOT attributed to Thomas Jefferson, it is you who is derailing threads with your stupendously arrogant ignorance. The final design of the Seal was contributed by Charles Thomson of who it was said:

I did not say it's his alone, what came later is the result of the concept of all, and how does this change things ?

The unfinished pyramid appears NOWHERE in Masonic ritual. You need to link something showing the unfinished pyramid used in Masonic ritual or symbolism.

I provided pictures with such elements, your word is not good enough, it is clear it was implemented from masonry.

Which Masons designed the Seal? What specific elements did they include? Where is your evidence?

The eye and the pyramid is masonic, there was no such concept back then in united states as I told you the concept did not come from where you state. You are denying that masons participated in the creation of the seal ?

You really are astounding in your ignorant certitudes. The oldest Trinitarian Church in the United States dates to 1632 in Marshfield, near Plymouth. St. Luke's Episcopalian Church (a masonry structure) in Smithfield, Virginia dates to at least 1682. The Roman Catholic Church created the Latin Missal and after the sixteenth century split, the Anglicans/Episcopalians continued the use of the Latin Mass in the New World.

Except Trinitarians were not involved in designing the seal. It was masons and close to masons persons.

Here are mine identical to the seal, now where are yours ?

So if they did not use his design what is the relevance?

I provided the complete seal of Jefferson, I guess you are wrong, and here it is once more but with explenation.

larrytemple.files.wordpress.com...

When you got masons and close persons to masons designing the seal what do you get ? the answer is a masonic drawing. This shows it had nothing to do with what you said, it had to do with the occult, ancient cultures, pharaons and pyramids as explained providing to you that your Trinitarian christians BS cover up is a bunch of non sense.

Like I told Pepsi, the All-Seeing Eye isn't exclusively Masonic. It has been used for ages by various cultures and groups. In Masonry its not always within a triangle though. I have seen it used within a triangle to denote the Holy Trinity of Christianity.

That is not the holy trinity, darkness light male/female and the eye is not trinity.
Stop BSing me with the trinity, the Roman Empire invented everything and incorporated occult symbols into christianity from the very begining, the seal is a masonic work, and it is occult in nature.

About the symbol it is not original to masonry, but it is masonic since it's incorporated into masonry.
Just like the cross, it's not christian in origin but it was incorporated into christianity, there for it's a christian symbol. The pyramid and the eye is masonic, the seal is masonic done by the masons.

Lodges will decorate themselves as they see fit. It's not a cookie cutter of how the exterior of a Lodge looks. My Lodge doesn't have either the eye or the hexagram on the exterior.

Well of course since it's an masonic symbol of course they will use it.

Again, you're using Hollywood as evidence. Also note that a commemorative coin is not evidence of widespread use. Every Lodge and/or Grand Lodge does a commemorative coin. I helped design and edit the commemorative coin for my Lodge's Centennial celebration. No pyramid on it.

Ohh you don't like coins
Then per haps you would like some rings from : masonica.co.uk


Or a masonic greeting card with the same unfinished pyramid and the eye

Originally posted by de1111codEiT
Are you branding Presidents, Prime ministers, Popes, Princes and the World leaders as dictators?

Read it again. You decided popes and dictators as Masons, which was inaccurate, and I called you on it.

So who uses this symbol them, is it used by Masons, I believe it is and just looking at the US 1 Dollar note is enough for me...

Given that only one Mason helped design the Great Seal, and his design was rejected, it shouldn't be "enough for you".

Oh this works very well, the distortion that only you can see could be down to my crude 'paintshop' work.

No, it's not. It's on every example.

Could you make your own or describe excactly what it is you are refering to as I'm having trouble grasping exactly what point you are trying to make...?

A straight line which follows the right wall of the pyramid exactly does not touch the "m" in "seclorum" but the "u". One has to either distort the shape of the star to shoehorn the "m" in or completely ignore the pyramid altogether, which seems to defeat the purpose.

Ah yes, I'm sorry about the discrepency, you are correct it is 'the All-Seeing Eye in a triangle (not a pyramid)'. This is very similar to the detatched eye above the partly built pyrimad that is on the US 1 Dollar note and ripe throughout the entertainment industry...Isn't it ?

Once again, "looks similar" should not be your standard. Freemasons take symbolism seriously; if we were behind all of this, it wouldn't be as haphazard as it is.

It has been proven to me beyond any measurable doubt that David Icke was a Freemason and attended the Newport lodge in his home town the I.O.W... Right now I cannot disclose how or why I know this

Of course you can't.

I still believe Icke is connected to the Masons/TPTB/Elite/Illuminti, although I can not proove this either

You just said you had proof.

I may create a thread explaining why I believe Icke is a disinformation artist, but this may not help my case as I have had negative and direct experience and contact with some of his fringe ideas...

So have I; his "fringe ideas" are about me. That doesn't give me license to call him something he isn't.

This symbol is also very similar to the detatched all seeing eye above the pryamid on the US 1 Dollar bill and similar to that on the front of 'The history of Freemasonry'!

All three are very similar if not identical...Is this correct or is an apple an orange?

They're not "identical", and they're really only vaguely similar. Even so, similarity is not congruence. Do you believe that the Egyptians created Christianity? Or that pirates wrote Shakespeare?

reply to post by pepsi78

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The eye and the pyramid is not Masonic. Unless you can show us what ritual it belongs in your opinion is folly. The legend of Masonry surrounds nothing that deals with pyramids. If the Masons had a hand in the creation of the Great Seal it would look a lot different.

Except Trinitarians were not involved in designing the seal. It was masons and close to masons persons.

So you're saying that none of the men on the seal committees were not Christians?

Again, you're first little image is from the MOVIE "National Treasure", which is a Hollywood design, not a Masonic one. Your second image is a commemorative coin, not a widespread Masonic use. If anything the designer wanted to incorporate the Great Seal into his coin to commemorate the Founding of the US. Nothing more.

reply to post by pepsi78

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The triangle with an eye is used as a symbol of the Holy Trinity.

So the pyramid was incorporated into Masonry when? Prior to this or on the date of the Great Seal design (which was done by a non-Mason with no Mason on the committee)? What occurred to cause this inclusion? And why is it nowhere in any Masonic ritual does the pyramid appear?

I love coins, but what a Lodge, or specifically, one designer uses is up to his intentions. Neither rings, nor coins, nor cards mean widespread use by the Fraternity, but rather someone cashing in on a popular conspiracy, one recently perpetuated by Hollywood in the National Treasure movie and with books such as the Da Vinci Code or the Lost Symbol.

reply to post by de1111codEiT

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I agree with you, the seal is masonic.

Even more elements from the Jefferson seal are imprinted on the seal of united states and on the dollar bill.
It reads pluribus unum:



Now back to the dollar bill

The imprint reads the same pluribus unum, on the dollar bill.

You can also see the eye and the pyramid on the Jefferson Seal, what is later to become the seal of united states with the pyramid and the eye.

It's Benjamin Franklin and Jefferson's idea the elements were incorporated in the seal later.

It's masonic work, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

reply to post by pepsi78

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Popular among conspiracy theorists is the claim that the Eye of Providence shown atop an unfinished pyramid on the Great Seal of the United States indicates the influence of Freemasonry in the founding of the United States. This was dramatized in the 2004 Disney film National Treasure. However, common Masonic use of the Eye dates to 14 years after the creation of the Great Seal. Furthermore, among the members of the various design committees for the Great Seal, only Benjamin Franklin was a Mason (and his ideas for the seal were not adopted). Indeed, many Masonic organizations have explicitly denied any connection to the creation of the Seal.

source

as I said, I think it would be great to attribute the US seal to masons, but the evidence just doesn't support it. At least the kind I find doesn't. I am sure the stuff you find will.

reply to post by network dude

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The seal on the dollar bill is masonic.
It is my personal opinion that masonry is a evil enterprise among the roman empire, part of the ruling "ILLUMINATED" elite it's just my opinion.

The notion is always morph into things and declare your self that, twist the truth, assimilate other things by infiltration, infect, corupt and keep it hidden from the public so you can rule and control

CONTROL FREAKS.

But hey it's just my opinion.

reply to post by pepsi78

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yup, and because of great masons men in history, you have the right to express that. However wrong it may be. So is this how you end an argument you lost, simply stating that it's your opinion and that is that? interesting concept.

reply to post by network dude

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Your eye of providence comes from the kabalah, from "the twisted" tree of life, as I told you they were sneaked into chrisianity. Just like the Jewish religion was corrupted by the same elements.

The eye and the pyramid is a masonic work and it came from the people who designed the seal.

reply to post by pepsi78

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symbolism is a graphical representation of an idea. It is neither malevolent nor benign without some sort of catalyst. If you believe that masonic symbols are evil, then they are to you. I cannot change that. What they are to me is the only thing I should be concerned with. I think the evidence that exists points to the great seal on the dollar bill being non masonic in design, but perhaps masonic in nature. Since masonry did in fact adopt the all seeing eye as a symbol after it appeared on the dollar bill then obviously there is a connection, but seeing as how the dollar came first, I think the connection is less important than you seem think. trust me, any discussion about this only brings more people into the exposure of masonry and I think that is a good thing. Just as I wish that the whole of the US creation could be attributed to masonry alone. Sadly, not everyone involved was a brother. But who knows, if you keep going, that could change!

reply to post by network dude

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I am sorry but I do not share your opinion, I have mine and you have yours. I view it as a masonic symbol.
The rest I guess is for others to decide and make an opinion.

Good day.

reply to post by network dude

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no, that's the eastern star.

Not sure if you're actually stupid or just playing dumb or could it possibly be that you have No-idea about the craft that you are part of and the symbols you use...

Or are you being purposely decietful becuase that is not in any frickin way an 'eastern star'

So which is it? Even you guys can't seem to agree what is and what isn't!

KSigMason = Hexagram

Networkdude = Eastern star

Do you actually know the difference...Network dude?

Don't wait too long, everyone might loose interest in your claims and completely ignore you.

I will wait untill I feel it is necessary to disclose what I have found and experienced, maybe after you stop a calling an apple an orange, untill then its quite clear that everyone is ignoring this thread but you Masons! I'm in no way surprised to see all you pesky little critters crawling out of the wood work, it's nice to observe your tactics of deflection, denial and deciet...

I cannot wait to see you prove that I am something I am not.

The only thing I've wanted to prove here is that you guys are dishonest cronies who will deny everything regardless of the amount of proof presented and that you all have a distinct inability to apply logic and reason...

You are liars and are selling yourself out to the detrement of your brothers and sisters around the globe, the world is in dire need of fixing and if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem...

reply to post by OnTheLevel213

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A straight line which follows the right wall of the pyramid exactly does not touch the "m" in "seclorum" but the "u". One has to either distort the shape of the star to shoehorn the "m" in or completely ignore the pyramid altogether, which seems to defeat the purpose.

Seriously, this will be the second time I've had to explain this... You guys really are special aren't you?

Don't follow the line of the pyramid...

Follow the line of the right side of the triangle that has 'the all seeing eye' within it that is above/detatched from the pyramid...

You know the one, It's the one that is ripe throughout Masonry, follow the line on this symbol that many Masons have addmitted on this thread as being a symbol they use... and where does it take you...?

Thats right sherlock to the 'M', not to the 'U'....

Are you still with me...?

If you followed the line of the pyramid this would take you to the 'U'... Yes, well done...silver star for you...for effort...

But then it would not make a triangle.... Still here? Or has that pretty colouring book caught your attention...

Without triangles, you can not create a Hexagram, understand...?

Ok, lets try it another way for you...

Take a Hexagram overlay it over the seal...

And what letters do the points on the star point to....

Say it with me now...

M for Mummy

A for Ant

S for Snake

O for Orange (Not apple)

N for No - Brainer

Now...take your thumb out of your mouth and repeat after me...

M - A - S - O - N

See that wasn't so hard now, was it...

Class dismissed...

You just said you had proof.

NO, I said that it has been proven to me, not that I have proof for you...

Because of what I have seen with my eye and what I have heard with my ears I can tell you it has been proven to ME...

YOU are not ME and YOU have not seen what I have seen or have been told what I've been told, so therefore it is only proof for me and NOT you...

I 'could' share what I've seen and been told, but this would still not be proof for you, it would just be my word, do you understand...?

So have I; his "fringe ideas" are about me.

His ideas about you are not fringe, they are becoming common knowledge and are being accepted as fact, especially on sites like this one (see first reply to thread)...

That doesn't give me license to call him something he isn't.

No of course not, that would be retarded to do so!

But, If it was proven to you that he was/is something that you 'thought' he was not and you then 'knew' for a fact becuase it was proven to you, would you then have licence to call and/or claim that he was/is that something...?

You totally missed my point, which I can't be arsed to explain to you now...

Do you believe that the Egyptians created Christianity? Or that pirates wrote Shakespeare?

No, I would humour you, but I think you might actually be that ^^ stupid, that is an extremely poor arguement. I'm not going to waste my breath explaining why, I've dumbed myself down enough for today...

I think I'm done here...

reply to post by de1111codEiT

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sorry, I thought you said pentagram. I made a mistake. I apologize.
I wish I could say it won't happen again, but it probably will. Being human sucks.

What about the rest of the evidence?

edit to add:

not that this excuses my terrible mistake, but this is the Eastern Star

Originally posted by pepsi78
I did not say it's his alone, what came later is the result of the concept of all, and how does this change things ?

You attribute 'Masonic' imagery to him and for the institution of the one dollar bill. You have proved neither.

I provided pictures with such elements, your word is not good enough, it is clear it was implemented from masonry.

I have to do no such thing. YOU made the claim. YOU provide the evidence. Where does the unfinished pyramid appear in Masonic ritual? All Masonic ritual is available online, link something.

The eye and the pyramid is masonic, there was no such concept back then in united states as I told you the concept did not come from where you state. You are denying that masons participated in the creation of the seal ?

See above. The person who put the unfinished pyramid on the reverse of the Great Seal was NOT a Mason. Unless you can prove otherwise you are incorrect, AGAIN.

Except Trinitarians were not involved in designing the seal. It was masons and close to masons persons.

Who cares if they were not invloved? When Jefferson wanted Moses was Moses involved? Stop being retarded.

What exactly does 'close to masons persons' mean? Was Ben Franklin looking over Jefferson's shoulder and saying, "No, no, put more Masonic symbols T.J., maybe some Illuminati stuff too."? Your assinine arguement presupposes that Thomas Jefferson somehow could not come up with a design without influence from the ONE Mason (Ben Franklin) who happened to be on the design team. Did you ever bother to look at Franklin's design? Almost NONE of his design made the final cut. Learn history.

Here are mine identical to the seal, now where are yours ?

Who cares about commerative coins or pendants that came AFTER the Great Seal. When was that struck?

I provided the complete seal of Jefferson, I guess you are wrong, and here it is once more but with explenation.

larrytemple.files.wordpress.com...

Where is the unfinished pyramid on that design? Please hilight it so everyone can see that you are correct for once.

When you got masons and close persons to masons designing the seal what do you get ? the answer is a masonic drawing. This shows it had nothing to do with what you said, it had to do with the occult, ancient cultures, pharaons and pyramids as explained providing to you that your Trinitarian christians BS cover up is a bunch of non sense.

Wait. Now it is 'ancient cultures' and 'pharoans(sic)'. You are all over the place again. The Eye of Providence has appeared in Christian iconograhpy and imagery LONG BEFORE the Great Seal. If you do not believe this you can again suffer yourself to be embarassed, this time in the presence of the posters on this thread.

You constantly make broad-based and ignorant statements and when are proved incorrect either ignore the evidence and/or go off on another tangent. Example. You claimed there where no stone churches in the colonial era. I gave you some that predate the colonial era by 100 years. You ignore this. I demonstrate that Latin was spoken in chruch services. You ignore this.

Do you see a pattern in your childish behavior? Adults do not do this. READ BEFORE YOU POST.

Originally posted by de1111codEiT
reply to post by OnTheLevel213

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Don't follow the line of the pyramid...

It defeats the purpose to say "an organization that places heavy emphasis on symbolism designed the dollar bill...now please ignore several parts of that symbolism so I can make my point."

Follow the line of the right side of the triangle that has 'the all seeing eye' within it that is above/detatched from the pyramid...

You know the one, It's the one that is ripe throughout Masonry, follow the line on this symbol that many Masons have addmitted on this thread as being a symbol they use... and where does it take you...?

Still to the "u", although the line's a little more generous.

But then it would not make a triangle.... Still here? Or has that pretty colouring book caught your attention...

You can always tell a great argument by the number of times your intellect is insulted for disagreeing.

Take a Hexagram overlay it over the seal...

You forgot to mention that this hexagram isn't straight from top to bottom, doesn't have equilateral points, and would cause you to fail art class without a background.

NO, I said that it has been proven to me, not that I have proof for you...

Because of what I have seen with my eye and what I have heard with my ears I can tell you it has been proven to ME...

YOU are not ME and YOU have not seen what I have seen or have been told what I've been told, so therefore it is only proof for me and NOT you...

I 'could' share what I've seen and been told, but this would still not be proof for you, it would just be my word, do you understand...?

Yes, I do. You feel perfectly comfortable stating something is a fact without demonstrating evidence for it. It wasn't something I didn't expect, but I certainly understand now.

His ideas about you are not fringe, they are becoming common knowledge and are being accepted as fact, especially on sites like this one (see first reply to thread)...

Accepted as fact =/= fact. The Taxil hoax was accepted as fact too.

No of course not, that would be retarded to do so!

But, If it was proven to you that he was/is something that you 'thought' he was not and you then 'knew' for a fact becuase it was proven to you, would you then have licence to call and/or claim that he was/is that something...?

Sure, if I has absolutely no desire to be believed. Or if I didn't care to do anything with the information. If I did, however, I'd wait for evidence I could share with the world so it didn't look like I was crying wolf.

No, I would humour you, but I think you might actually be that ^^ stupid, that is an extremely poor arguement.

So, similarity=influence only when it's convenient for you, then?

I'm not going to waste my breath explaining why, I've dumbed myself down enough for today...

How typical. "You're wrong in ways I refuse to explain! Somehow this makes me look good!"

I think I'm done here...

Good. The board deserves better.

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