Hoaxing and Misrepresentation by Chemtrail Promoters

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posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Okay, since some chemtrailers have no idea that they have been preyed upon by certain people like Will Thomas, Len Horowitz, Tony Hilder, G Edward Griffin, lets start showing evidence of it. Anyone should chime in with evidence, where people who promote chemtrails, have been less than truthful

As anyone knowledgable about the history of the chemtrail hoax, Will Thomas was one of the, if not the, earliest promoter of it for commercial purposes. He and Len Horowitz, together would promote it and have books, dvds, home remedies for sale. Will Thomas got involved in this, starting around 99 or so, together will Len Horowitz who has moved onto a completely different con game since.

One of his very first stories to promote chemtrails, was this, about KC-135s over Canada, and leaving trails on the radars.
www.willthomasonline.net...

Again, I will dissect it for its "truthiness"



Dickie regularly visits Air Traffic Control at the Edmonton municipal airport to watch the chemplanes making repeated passes over the city. Blessed with good friends at work in the tower, he has watched radar-identified KC-135s "on many occasions."

On Father's Day 2002, Dickie and an excited group of 12 year-olds watched two KC-135s tracked by radar as HA (High Altitude) targets flying at 34,000 and 36,000 feet - "one to the south, and one to the north of the city."

Both USAF tankers had flown south out of Alaska. As Dickie, the kids and the controllers watched, the big jets began making patterns over Edmonton - "circuits" the controllers called it. "Petro 011" and "Petro 012" were working alone in "commanded airspace" from which all other aircraft were excluded.


A tower facility does not have anything to do with high altitude traffic. Their radar is going to only show low altitude traffic and only in the vicinity of their airport. The airspace controlled the Edmonton tower,, only goes up to 4600 ft MSL, and out to 7 miles. Everything he is talking about, is handled by "Edmonton Centre" which is very possibly in an entirely different building.

No such thing as "commanded airspace" either.



The signature is significant," one radar operator commented, referring to a trail clearly visible on the scope extending for miles behind the KC-135. In contrast, a JAL flight on the display left no contrail. Going outside, Dickie and several controllers scanned clear blue skies. They easily located the KC-135 leaving its characteristic white-plume "signature". Visibility was outstanding. They also clearly identified the JAL airliner at a similar flight level. It left no contrail at all.


Dropping some kind of powder, is not going to show up on a weather radar or air traffic control radar. First of all, something of that size will not reflect enough anyways. Ever seen a dust or sandstorm storm on radar? No, and you wont either. Second of all, air traffic radars operate from transponder returns for the most part. Even a formation of fighters will show up as one target, since only one of them will have their transponder on. Radars are engineered to show objects of a certain size, and something of a powder or sand is definitely not something that would ever show up



Going outside, Dickie and several controllers scanned clear blue skies. They easily located the KC-135 leaving its characteristic white-plume "signature". Visibility was outstanding. They also clearly identified the JAL airliner at a similar flight level. It left no contrail at all.


Yeah sure, the tower controllers are just going to all leave the tower cab and go outside while at work. They would get reprimanded or fired, for them all leaving the tower cab to go outside. In Edmonton, they would have to leave the tower, take an elevator downstairs to the bottom of the building, and walk outside. They cant just all go do that.



"We see these guys up here a lot," the radar techs told Dickie. "You should have seen it when they had the big summit up in Calgary. It was exciting to watch them."


Someone in Edmonton is not going to say "up in Calgary" since Calgary is SOUTH of Edmonton. You slipped up there, Mr Thomas.



There could be no doubt about what was being left in the tankers' wake. Showing up on radar as "birdie feet" triangles, the reflective plumes also showed up as "as a concentration of dots" in the radar-visible plume. Focusing on each plane with the click of cursor, "we could see different contrails," Dickie described. Some were short and quickly vanished from the 'scopes. Other trails were thick, long and lingering - not contrails at all.


This is the most damning of all and pretty conclusive to me that he just wrote it all himself. Here, he is actually claiming normal contrails can show up on air traffic control radar, in addition to "chemtrails". If this was not proof he completely just wrote this fable, then there is nothing else i could say. Contrails, and clouds for that matter since they are the same, do not show up on any kind of radar.





edit on 6-6-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot
people who promote chemtrails, have been less than truthful

People who promote "chemtrails" also don't do the research. They also don't have the most basic comprehension of meteorology or flight dynamics.

Contrails have been seen in the skies for three-quarters of a century. They don't look or act any differently now than they did back then:

contrailscience.com...


"Chemtrails" is a hoax, it's disinformation. Nobody has done any real, repeatable scientific studies to prove they are real, but "I KNOW THEY'RE SPRAYING EVERY DAY!!!!".



SnF OP



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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This is one subject that sucks me in every time. I spend too much time on this subject. I am even taking pictures of contrails to document the time and weather conditions.....I often take this subject too personal and should leave it at that.

My name is liejunkie and I am a chemtrail debunker.


Thank you for the information. S&F



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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Just got back from a business trip around the west coast, beautiful weather the last few days.

Thanks for posting this Firepilot, I don't think many believers even know the genesis of the "conspiracy"

S&F



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Are any of the promoters still peddling the Gulfstream-1 pics of the collection nozzle?

That one was a blatant outright lie that many people fell for.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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aircrap.org...

I brought up Ted Gunderson, and Tony Hilder. Hilder has a cottage industry of making conspiracy movies for sale, and he brings in Ted to help promote them and to lend his name. This is from this video



Ted says the following: “The death dumps, otherwise known as chemical trails, are being dropped and sprayed throughout the United States and England, Scotland, Ireland, and Northern Europe. I have personally seen them not only in the United States, but in Mexico and in Canada. Birds are dying around the world. Fish are dying by the hundreds of thousands around the world. This is genocide. This is poison. This is murder by the United Nations. This element within our society that is doing this must be stopped. I happen to know of two of the locations where the airplanes are that dump this crap on us. Four of the planes are out of the Air National Guard in Lincoln, Nebraska. And, the other planes are out of Fort Sill, Oklahoma. I personally have observed the planes that were standing still in Nebraska – Lincoln, Nebraska – at the Air National Guard. They have no markings on them. They are huge, bomber-like airplanes with no markings. This is a crime: a crime against humanity, a crime against America, a crime against the citizens of this great country. The must be stopped. WHAT IS WRONG WITH CONGRESS? This has an affect on their population, and their people, and their friends, and their relatives, and themselves. What’s wrong with them? What’s wrong with the pilots who are flying these airplanes and dumping this crap, this poison, on their own families? Somebody has to do something about it. Somebody in Congress has to step forward and stop it now. Thank you. I’m Ted Gunderson.”


Okay, lets look at this. He mentioned the Air National Guard in Lincoln Nebraska, having bomber like aircraft with no markings, that he "personally have observed".

Does the Nebraska Air National Guard 155th Air Refueling Wing have unmarked bomberlike aircraft? NO
www.airliners.net...

And where are they out of, with their EIGHT planes? oh yeah, its the local municipal airport. Kinda hard to keep some secret aircraft there, in full view of everyone.
www.155arw.ang.af.mil...


Welcome to the website for the 155th Air Refueling Wing. Our unit, based at the Lincoln Municipal Airport in Lincoln Neb., is rich in history and experience.


Lets look at Ft Sill
www.airnav.com...


Runway Information

Runway 17/35Dimensions: 5001 x 200 ft. / 1524 x 61 m


Sorry Hilder and Gunderson, but 5001 ft is not suitable for large aircraft like that. A C-130, yeah probably could get in and out, but larger aircraft like a KC-135 or some secret bomber, not a chance

I am undecided about whether Gunderson came up with this, or whether it was spoon fed to him by Hilder. Ted does say that he personally witnessed it however.
edit on 6-6-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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Another deception, which has been oft mentioned, is the KC-10 video posted on youtube. That is two KC-10s, flying together with the one doing the filming, is behind and above. The person who filmed it, was the flight engineer on it, which was reflected in the name he used.

"Tanker Enemy" then took it, and reposted it, with some editing of their own of course. They seemed to find "spray nozzles" on there


Spray nozzles? How about flap hinge fairings.
www.fas.org...

A photo of one, refueling a F-117.

Its rather sad, how the chemtrail promoters maligned the aircrews of these refueling aircraft, in order to promote their hoax. The tanker crews work long hours, spend a lot of time away from home, and do something with a bit more hazard than those cowardly chemtrail promoters will ever do.

Even if Tanker Enemy made an honest mistake at the time, its been posted many times in their video comments, that those are not nozzles, but they refuse to correct it.
edit on 6-6-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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contrails and clouds for that matter since they are the same, do not show up on any kind of radar.


I was reading your thread when i saw that sentence..

so i have to ask..

What does a doppler radar show?
?


but cool thread all the same..



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by baddmove



contrails and clouds for that matter since they are the same, do not show up on any kind of radar.


I was reading your thread when i saw that sentence..

so i have to ask..

What does a doppler radar show?
?


but cool thread all the same..


It will show water droplets of a certain size. But not clouds, or else the local radar would just be useless everytime it was overcast. Once the water droplets coalese and reach a certain size, typically precipitation size, then it will show. But they have to be a certain size, to have the required resonance to reflect the radar signals, which is why they a weather radar has the property frequency engineered into it for that purpose.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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Here's a classic case of scaremongering:

High levels of barium in blood??


Gianluca Zanna, of MohaveCountyConstitution.com who himself tested positive for high levels of barium, put together the tests which were taken by 17 different people.

A total of 13 people have tested at high levels with most testing at least 1,000 percent over the normal level.

Normal levels are between 2 and 10 mcg/L for barium according to Labcorp and Quest Labs.

1 Alan Golden Valley Barium 150
2 Bridget L. Golden Valley Barium 190
3 Luca Zanna Golden Valley Barium 130
4 Patty Kingman Barium 160
5 Patty’s sister in Texas Barium 140
6 Nancy Golden Valley Barium 250!!!!
7 Mike B. Kingman No Barium but Aluminum 21 (max is 7)
8 Kenny Golden Valley Barium 190
9 Janna Golden Valley Barium 150
10 Bridget C. Phoenix Barium 140
11 Mike C. Phoenix Barium 130 Aluminum 11 (max is 7)
12 Bridget L. Bullhead City No Barium but Uranium Extremely elevated
13 Ilenia Golden Valley Barium 70
14 Chuck Golden Valley no Barium but elevated Aluminum levels
15 Connie Golden Valley No barium
16 Maggie Kingman No Barium
17 Jim Golden Valley No barium
“None of them works in an at-risk industrial environment, and most spend their time indoors,” said Zanna, who, along with his wife and another area resident, tested positive for toxic levels of barium earlier this year.



Well no - "normal" barium legvels are anything up to 400 - see www.speclab.com...

This has been pointed out to the person who wrote the article, and they have refused to correct it - you can see Uncinus's comments on the page.

Further this has spread to other chemmies such as MJM - see 4.35 -




posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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I think it is fair to include people in hoaxing and misrepresentation, that if you give them the correct information, and they refuse to correct their webpages, videos, etc, at that point they are willfully spreading misinformation.

Here is an example of this.


She has made several huge factual mistakes in this. Was it her intention, well maybe not. Did you she do her research? Obviously not. Has she corrected her mistakes that she has been notified of? Not at all, she actually continues with them.

At 1:10, she brings up a desert dirt runway, which in reality is an old WW2 strip used by the Tucson Glider Club. She knows this, but still included it in her latest version. She calls it an "undisclosed runway". But hey, she spends over a minute on photos of the dirt strip, hangers and glider trailers. It would be a much shorter video if it was not for the sinister music.

At 2:25, is a China Southern Boeing 777 Cargo plane. I have pointed this out to her before, and gave her the exact serial number of it and photos. But she still insists there is something strange about it.

At 3:45, there is a Boeing 747, that is probably being parted out. She insists it is an Evergreen KC-135, which is patently silly, considering Evergreen only has 747s for their cargo, and the KC-135 is a military aircraft for refueling. I have corrected her on this, told her it was a 747 being disassembled, and that it was even having the engines removed. She even acted like she acknowledged the errors, but she keeps them in the newer videos.

Of course she still asserts Evergreen flies KC-135 refueling tankers, and is the latest chemtrailer to run for media cameras.



edit on 6-6-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)
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edit on 6-6-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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More on Will Thomas. This comes from a website of Jay Reynolds, who compiled quite a bit about the early days of Will Thomas and his dishonesty.

For those who claim anyone opposing chemtrails is doing it for the money, well those who invented it, were the ones motivated by money. I am in it because i despise the utter falsehoods, and junk science being spread.

goodsky.homestead.com...



Claims of Lab Analysis Still Remain Undocumented
In fact, the main promoter of "chemtrails" has left the ideas of chemicals behind and settled on a biological claim. On April 22, 1999, Environment News Service published an article "Sky Samples Analyzed", by William Thomas, which claimed that various bacteria and fungi had been found in a sample of "aerial fallout" at an undisclosed location one year previously. Thomas claimed the substances had been scraped from house siding and had been analyzed and cultured at an unnamed laboratory. All the organisms claimed to have been found are normal
environmental inhabitants and their presence on the contaminated surface of a house is not unusual. In the eleven months since the article's publication, no actual analysis has been released. In an interview by the Santa Fe New Mexican newspaper(6/20/99, pg. E1),Thomas said,

"My colleague and I will release the name of our lab and detailed analysis as soon as we find a publisher willing to pay us for many months of research and reimburse those lab tests."

Later, he admitted to having no such reports.

He first began his chemtrails fearmongers surprisingly about low level KC-135s making trails, differentiating them from high altitude persistence cirrus, which he admitted was normal



"Four years ago I wrote one of the first articles (published in Eco Decision magazine) describing how atmosphere-altering contrails in high-traffic routes such as the Atlantic corridor between the USA and Europe can occasionally persist for hours, forming cirrus-type clouds that drift over a large area."



"Yet, photographs and videotapes deluging my office clearly show unmarked, all-white KC-135 tanker aircraft laying thick billowing ‘trails over American communities at altitudes below 9,000 feet - where short-lived, ice-crystal "con"densation trails cannot form."


Such videos and tapes never surfaced, later that year Environmental News Service told Will to get lost and not mention any connection with them.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 03:59 AM
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since this thread fails, for example (because there are many more - like the patents on chemtrails) to mention that many countries like russia and spain admit to spray stuff in the air for climate control purpose,

then this thread is 100% complete disinfo crap following some sick agenda that has nothing to do with denying ignorance

edit to clarify : it is very well known disinfo "debunk" method to address the weakest points of a theory to discredit it, while ignoring the real reasons of concern
edit on 7-6-2011 by XmikaX because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by XmikaX
since this thread fails, for example (because there are many more - like the patents on chemtrails) to mention that many countries like russia and spain admit to spray stuff in the air for climate control purpose,

then this thread is 100% complete disinfo crap following some sick agenda that has nothing to do with denying ignorance

edit to clarify : it is very well known disinfo "debunk" method to address the weakest points of a theory to discredit it, while ignoring the real reasons of concern
edit on 7-6-2011 by XmikaX because: (no reason given)



show the patents and where Spain and Russia admit to it.

How is it disinfo to discredit lies?



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by SirCoxone

show the patents and where Spain and Russia admit to it.


He probably means cloud seeding - it;'s a common chemmie error - god knows we've had a bit of it lately!!



How is it disinfo to discredit lies?


Because it points out that they aren't telling he truth - and they aren't interested in telling he truth - they are only interested in spreading their dogma/religion/fantasy.

And of course if they are not going to present us with VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE then all they can do is present us with a series of premises leading to a conclusion that chemtrails exist - and it is COMPLETELY reasonable to point out the errors in that chain - both incorrect premises, and conclusions that do not follow from the premises.

Look at the Barium levels thing - the guy you replied to thinks that it is disinfo to point out that the levels reported are not high at all - he is simply not interested in facts - anything supporting the existence of chemtrails must be the truth simply because it supports the existence of chemtrails!!
edit on 7-6-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by XmikaX
 





since this thread fails, for example (because there are many more - like the patents on chemtrails) to mention that many countries like russia and spain admit to spray stuff in the air for climate control purpose,


Wow, a thread about chemtrailer fails, and a chemtrailer comes and fails in the exact manner being discussed. We are well aware of the patents relating to aerosol operations. We are well aware of various governments taking part in cloud seeding (this has been going on since vietnam).

cloud seeding is weather manipulation. It does not involved "spraying" deadly cocktails of poison over vast areas of the planet. None of the patents related to this at all. and for the record, as you'll probably start claiming otherwise, cloud seeding refers to releasing material into clouds to help create rain conditions. Not "making clouds" out of poison, which while supposedly to kill us on the ground, some how stay in the air forever.

What they DO relate to, is cloud seeding. Another 'geoengineering' project that has been THEORIZED, is releasing tiny aluminum particles into the upper atmosphere to help reflect sunlight and combat global warming.

A manned mission to Mars has also been THEORIZED.

See, what you have done, like most of you will, is taken probably 15 minutes worth of reading, then formed your opinion, and filter out any information that doesn't fit your theory as "disinfo".

If you can't be bothered to learn about the basic facts of what a contrail is and how it acts, how are you a credible voice in relation to "chemtrails"? you aren't. You've shown, like the rest of them, you fail to do any real research or thinking, not even the basics. And it's hilarious, you, my friend, are the disinfo agent, and you don't even know it.

You go around blissfully showing how completely ignorant you are, discrediting the entire community, not just chemtrailers, all of us truth seekers look like idiots because YOU guys are calling into radio shows or tv shows explaining that contrails can't stay for hours, so they have to be deadly chemicals.

Google it. Pick up a grade 8 science text book. For the love of god.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 06:56 AM
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board double posted....
edit on 7-6-2011 by phishyblankwaters because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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As an Australian I find the Chemtrail hoax absolutely hilarious. Don't shut these guys down too much they provide significant ammounts of entertainment.

Planes would have to be the most regulated and logged mode of transport EVER. If you were going to disperse a chemical why do it at 30,000 feet, all its travels be independantly logged and recorded, completely miss the target your spraying over and everyone can see it.

Buy a few vans, or trucks for a much larger payload, pump it into the cat converter, drive around where you want the chems released. Presto: simple, cheap, stealthy and much more focusable.

Maybe the secret multi-biliion dollar chemtrailers with the underground runways and cloaked hangers should use thier brains.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by black0h
As an Australian I find the Chemtrail hoax absolutely hilarious. Don't shut these guys down too much they provide significant ammounts of entertainment.


As an Australian (i.e. Low threshold for Bovine Sewerage), I know exactly what you mean! LOL!

IRM



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Seconded!

The bovine sewerage is bad mmkay.





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