The Honest Life - Solving the Problems of Awakening pt.2

LifeIsEnergy: I completely agree with your description of what honesty and sincerity are...
I follow three principles, from which I feel other virtues are derived...
Truth, Courage and Love...

Honesty is derived from a scrupulous respect for Truth.
A willfull intent to never decieve oneself or others...

I think the element in sincerity which draws us into honest sincerity is the virtue of humility...

"The greatest friend of Truth is Time, her greatest enemy is Prejudice, and her constant companion is Humility"
- Charles Caleb Colton in The Lacon

Humility is the letting go of Pride in ones self... I know you call this Ego...
I however, have a hard time calling this ego, as I see ego being a very necessary part of the self, and more like an operator of these filters we have, such as pride...
In my mind, the Ego is also the one to turn on the filter of humility...

Again, a most excellent analysis of Honesty and Sincerity...

To Unity_99: I love the way you speak "outside the box".
I myself have a tendancy to use terms that take a break from normal terminolgy...
It helps to refresh my perspectives, and your descriptions are very much in line with my own...
Very refreshing!

To Leo Virgo: On the subject of "returnig to God/Source", I would only say...
Yes, it eventually occures when we reach our own divine state of spirit, but you dont go from 2nd grade to a graduate degree...and you don't develop individual consciousness with the ability to "create" new things, only to gather it back into the womb once it's learned a few things about exsisting...
Life teaches us that the beginnings are difficult and chaotic, and that they progess toward mastery, and yes unity...
I feel, as creator beings, we have much more to do in this vast cosom before reuinification or dissolution...

Why didn't Buddha enter Heaven? Perhaps because he knew that those who served to define Heaven as "a good place" could not follow? (i.e. All the little Hellions...)

Perhaps the greatest truth lies in the sacrifice of some into entropy that we may have free choice, and definition of unity?

Beleive it or not, one of the most poinient displays of this is, IMO, in one of the last scenes of the Lady Gaga video "Born this way" where she has a faint defiant smile, yet a tear rolls down her cheeck...
Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil?
Perhaps... A facet to ponder, anyway...

I leave you with a creation of my own to ponder....

"Ultimate Freedom"

The children of ultimate freedom are filled with the molten froth of calamities spiraling tirade.
Gone are the parental and societal orders, stifling as the night womb from whence they came.
Open is the door into the eternities...
Swiftly crumbling are the ledges of reason in the wombs darkened aerie...

Maturation approaches until its ardor matches the terror of what is unknown.
The child is free to be born anew, or borne down in forever’s bitter sweet embrace.
Reason dances with desire in an ever maddening spin of ordered chaos...
The furor of light and dark reaches a pinnacled instance of paradox..!

Yet, it is the age of light, and the fires of chaos must win; for the birth is the reason; and we are
never truly free of the plan.
The seed is germinated or consumed; lost in the endless folds of nothing and everything.
As before, forevers are born anew, growing always outward, toward the ultimate freedom...

Yes, a very good discussion going here... * bows with respect *

reply to post by Khurzon


Are you suggesting that the 'source' has some sort of need to 'learn' and this is the reason for 'emanation'?

Do the characters in your dreams 'learn things'?

As conscious beings...we awaken to things through observations, through our senses, like instruments. But is it really for our benefit this occurs, that life occurs...for a 'self' purpose as individuals?

How do you know that before this 'life/expression' that you were a 'self' and not the 'source' and how do you know that after this life you would go on to learn as a 'self' instead of just 'being' of the source>?

The idea that we are individuals at all....seems like the biggest illusion of this whole experience/dream. How can you learn anything on your own, without the earth, sun, moon, water, air, plants, animals, people....its all one great expression working as 'one'. Who is to say we will 'return' to unity....we ARE unity. We dont have to recognize that or be aware of it...it just is...and in that...it shows us a nature of 'the source' in that it just 'is', its always 'being'.

The 'source' consistently being, will consistently express. Who is to say that the whole entire universe is not this one great expression of Thee? No wrongs or rights....but all together, is perfect.

Edit to add...sure we as conscious beings, defiantly can bring about a more true nature of unity (our true nature) then separation (the illusion) and this may be the whole point of the expression. For the true nature to find its way, amongst its own self.

I dont think we existed as selves before this life or after this life. We may go on as a phase of being of thee source...but ultimately, our true self is not 'a phase of being' but the unity of all phases.

I guess to me works like 'graduation' suggests some sort of 'need' with the source...when I look at awakening to what we truly are is more of a natural cycle. Its not something on a individual level (thought it seems that way often) but on a level as a whole.

I look at the universe as a perfect expression of the source. In its wholeness, its perfect. Surely the Universe and its purpose would still stand without us, people, conscious beings> We often think the whole experience, is for us, and us alone. Surely the spheres through space and the blades of grass have just as much to do with the 'whole' as we do.

From my limited understanding about the Buddha not entering heaven...is a understanding of the oneness we really are.

It would be like leaving your legs behind while the rest of your body enters. Understanding that its not the 'self' that is on the 'path' but we are all on a path together.

Understanding that our true nature, in Spirit, is something we all are sharing together....and there is no accomplishment in just 'one part' finding its way...but only through all parts seeing what they are, together.

Very similar idea to the self offering of Jesus and him saying he did not seek glory for himself.

It may seem on individual levels we are 'learning' but on a 'whole' level, its really a united awareness of a united whole we are coming upon. How can we keep denying as we observe the works that there is anything really in its own right, separate from everything else?

To me, its not about future graduation or grades or levels beyond this life. Its all about, now.

Every moment, as a whole, the 'works' together becomes aware more and more of the entanglement. Before us as conscious beings...who is to say that awareness of it all was ever needed anyways...that it may of all been just perfect as could be and WE are the ones that came along and are suggesting its NOT PERFECT as is?

We know storms have their place just as much as a sunny day.

Its paradoxical....because until there is a conscious being to make up the definitions of right and wrong....it seems the 'expression' of the source was perfect.

In the experience of individuality...there seems to always be issues of things like pride and greed. We look at this often as 'lower levels' of being and think that it needs to be fixed, we need to grow from that, ect.

But, what if those things, have just as much to help us see what the 'source' is about, its nature, just as much as given and humbleness has to show us?

Who is anyone to really say, that all as is, is not a perfect expression of THEE, just as it is, on a 'united' level?

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Are you suggesting that the 'source' has some sort of need to 'learn' and this is the reason for 'emanation'?

Well, actually...yes and no.
I think you will find that just about every manifestation in the universe is based upon some kind of paradox.
In this case knowing/not knowing.

I don't know for sure... if I were the source I might, but I am me...

Be it an "emination" of the source or not, it is still consciousness seeking the knowing...
I see things intuitivly, based upon obvious patterns I can see in our natural world...
Beings have offspring, that they may grow...to become adults...and have offspring...
It is my belief that this is so in an etheric sense..."As above so Below" and vise verse.

I see examples of three states of etheric life in our universe:
1. Natural Consciousness: Any being who is aware or becoming aware of all the aspects of incarnation within the physical world. (that would be you and me.)
2. Supernatural Consciousness: All beings who are aware or becoming aware of all aspects of the Physical and Supernatural worlds, and the interactions between them.
3. Supernal Consciousness: All beings who have achieved full understanding of the physical and supernatural realms, and are currently engaged in the creation of worlds and spiritual offspring.

Above all of this is the creator...and the source.
Something that we will all eventually become...merging in unity, defined by the forces of entropy...

The very meaning in life is it's growth...it's emergent worlds...worlds without end...
Only the endless voices of the source can speak of the entirety of knowing "all" things...

Do the characters in your dreams 'learn things'?

Perhaps...perhaps not. perhaps they may someday..?
Are we not but thoughts in the imagination of our creator?

The cosmos is a very big place...and there are many things not explained by corporeality...
To me, the patterns suggest, and my experiences with supernaturality affirms, that there is more to our consciousness than just this corporeal exsistance...

"I look at the universe as a perfect expression of the source. In its wholeness, its perfect. Surely the Universe and its purpose would still stand without us, people, conscious beings> We often think the whole experience, is for us, and us alone. Surely the spheres through space and the blades of grass have just as much to do with the 'whole' as we do."

Perfect, yes..well...almost. Perfect is only in total unity... I look up and see at least two colors in the night sky...black dark and white light...thats a division.

And the quantum observer problem might argue the "stand alone" idea of the universe...
(not saying it couldnt continue on without at least one planetfull tho.)

Sort of like saying..."The egg came first! Who needs a Chicken, anyways?"

There seems to be a fear of honesty among people, as if they want to dellude themselves. For example, a selfish person might have to try and justify themselves by pointing the finger at others, there comes a time where there exists a threshold, where a system of excuses becomes a complex system of emotional manipulation.

"They" are wrong. "I" am wrong. Shhhh.... The teacher is here and always has been. Just remain quiet and listen. The time is now friends, the time has always been NOW. Strive on with diligence.

Love this thread. Please keep writing them!

Btw I had always thought that the Buddha DID enter nirvana, to prove that it was possible. That it was the bodhisattvas who refused to go until all other souls had gone first.




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reply to post by Khurzon


Thanks for your reply Khurzon...I enjoyed the thoughts and have thought all of that at some point.

For what ever reasons, Im personally learning to the idea of ' to be is to express' and to express is to push a part of yourself outwardly...and this could be 'emanation' of our true self, and we, are that 'expression', the whole universe, if of that 'one expression'.

I too love to observe what naturally exists, I believe the very design of the Universe holds key understandings. I too take note of the cycles and the orders....but often wonder if the cycles and orders of things are not just for the perpetual motion of 'being the expression'. Not sure if that makes sense to others or not.

We, as beings, must express. We do this through thoughts, we do this by reacting to our thoughts and ideas and to our surroundings. In turn, we 'push outwardly' a part of ourselves, as we 'express'. As we express...situations, ideas, events, interactions...become...and things get 'created'.

Is a art piece really separate from its maker? The 'piece' cant 'be' without its creator....and at the same time, its a 'part' of its creator. Is the art piece really a creation from nothing....or is it a 'part ' of its creator, as a expression...something that was pushed outwardly, thus, in turn, seems to be a creation.

We see and observe that life must consume life to live. Air, water, plants, animals, seeds...all seems to be 'life'. The design, feeds off of itself...showing a 'oneness'...a working together to 'be'.

I simply enjoy the exchange of ideas...not claiming and rights or wrongs, and I enjoy the ideas of feedback. So please dont ever take my posts in any way of trying to say something is wrong or right I think we are meant to bounce our thoughts back and forth. Who knows where my 'thinking' will be years from now.

I do question as of lately though...if things we experience, like spiritual experiences...are nothing more then like a 'dream'...just another extension of this illusion...but through personal facets of our own 'being'. Could 'experiences' simply be inner 'expressions' , us as individuals..pushing our creative energy outwardly...expressing what we desire or fear? If our true self is one, a 'one source'....and this could be looked at as an illusion...then I must consider that all 'experiences' on a personal individual level are just an extension of the illusion, the idea of 'separation' in a personal continuum. If so, how do we discern those? How do we know that a spiritual experience is something of a reality, a real existence...and not something we simply are creating, through the personal filter of 'being' a individual self? So here lately, Im looking at all spiritual experiences as being something of our own individual creation...a work...between our unconsciousness and conscious mind.

All my best
LV

Originally posted by Pellinore
Love this thread. Please keep writing them!

Btw I had always thought that the Buddha DID enter nirvana, to prove that it was possible. That it was the bodhisattvas who refused to go until all other souls had gone first.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Hi Pellinore...you may be right. The part that I read this from referred it to Buddha but it was through a blog type spot several years ago.

Is it taught that nirvanna...is heaven...one in the same?

Edit to add..I found this on a quick search...
www.eastern-philosophy-and-meditation.com...

There is a beautiful parable about the Buddhism founder, Siddhartha Gautama Buddha. Gautama Buddha arrived at the gates of heaven and all was prepared with great fanfare to receive him. The gates were flung open, music was playing and angels were present to greet him with garlands. But he refused to enter heaven. He said, “I will not enter until all the being in the Universe enter Heaven. Only after that will I enter. The angels said, “But that will take an eternity. Just think, for all the Humans, elephants, lions, and ants to enter heaven will take forever.” Siddhartha Gautama Buddha said, “That is not a problem. I am prepared to wait. I have learned patience. In any case I am eternally blissful already so what can Heaven give me. Until all the beings in the Universe enter Heaven I will wait here.” And it is said that the Buddha is still waiting. The angels keep coming with ever-new arguments to persuade him to enter Heaven and then close the gates. But the Buddha refuses to budge. He is still waiting at the gates and the doors of Heaven are open.

Its a great parable..either way. Its one of those things that it matters not where it came really, for its greatness stands alone.

I once took a quote from a gospel that was not a part of the Bible and gave it to a Christian lady. The gospel said it was spoken by Jesus...so I quoted it to someone I thought would be interested. So I told it to her..and she said..that is not in my Bible. She said, how can you know that its something Jesus said. I asked her, does it matter who really said it...does it not ring true to your heart? It troubled her, that she had no way to know for sure, if it was something Jesus would have said. The quote was this...
"Cut the tree, I am there...Lift a stone, you will find me". (Or close to that nature).

To me, the quote seemed of the 'same nature' of Jesus. Similar to the thing about Buddha and not entering heaven...it just seemed to be of the 'same nature'.

To know one way or the other, for sure...I do not know who said the parable...but I do love it.

My best
LV

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


What a wonderful series of threads you've created. I am interested in reading more of what you have to say in controlling and eventually extinguishing the problems associated with the awakening of Self.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Its seems that many people would rather confirm what they already 'knew', rather then learn something new. Maybe the first part of this series was more attractive because it confirmed what others wanted to feel about those who speak of awakening, that often times there is a sense of superiority that comes along with it. Funny, and ironic. The first part of this series was not meant to put down those who seek to awaken. Maybe this whole idea of "Solving the Problems of Awakening" is more suitable for a different audience.

Peace.

I giggled when I read this post. Perhaps this is an astute observation. But judgment of the whole audience your post reaches isn't in my opinion allowing the truth to be truth. The truth flows where it is meant to flow and reaches where it needs, removing or circumventing obstacles along the way. Let it be as water. Would you dam the flow and change the current? Such attempts at control always fail, eventually and inevitably.

Namaste

edit on 8/6/11 by TravelerintheDark because: love

Astoundingly beautiful analogy and vision you have provided TravelintheDark.

LifeisEnergy keep up the fantastic threads. let those who post with aggression and conflict not deter you from writing more.

Namaste.