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I am an Athiest

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posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by SaberTruth

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
U gotta stop discussing salvation. That's not the request of the OP. The OP never asked to be saved, but for someone to "make" him/her believe in God.

The two are not the same by a long shot. I'm discussing going from an Atheist to a Theist. Re-read what I stated in that context plz.

Then we're back to people asking for faith in God before they believe there's a God, as I mentioned.

To clarify: you're saying that the OP must ask God for faith, is that right?


The OP:


Someone please MAKE me believe


(Emphasis mine)

To which I replied:


Ask God for that..

No man can "make" you believe, sorry.


Faith in the existence of God must come from God. That's why two people can look at the same evidence and one will walk away a believer and the other will walk away in unbelief. But BOTH of those individuals will be scratching their heads in disbelief that the other person doesn't believe the same way they do.




posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
...Ask God for that..

Faith in the existence of God must come from God. That's why two people can look at the same evidence and one will walk away a believer and the other will walk away in unbelief. But BOTH of those individuals will be scratching their heads in disbelief that the other person doesn't believe the same way they do.

Okay, but what I'm saying is that it isn't faith in the existence of God that must come from God, but sufficient evidence (Rom. 1) and the preaching of the gospel (passages I quoted above) must come from God. The OP has heard of God, has heard the gospel, and the rest is up to them. I'm not discounting the Spirit either, but again there is no "gift of faith" that causes a person to believe there is a God, because as I mentioned re. Romans and as you point out here, God's existence should be self-evident by creation. The reason one person looks at the evidence and walks away while the other accepts it is NOT because God gave faith to the latter, but because they freely chose to accept it. That's all I'm trying to say.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by SaberTruth

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
...Ask God for that..

Faith in the existence of God must come from God. That's why two people can look at the same evidence and one will walk away a believer and the other will walk away in unbelief. But BOTH of those individuals will be scratching their heads in disbelief that the other person doesn't believe the same way they do.

Okay, but what I'm saying is that it isn't faith in the existence of God that must come from God, but sufficient evidence (Rom. 1) and the preaching of the gospel (passages I quoted above) must come from God. The OP has heard of God, has heard the gospel, and the rest is up to them. I'm not discounting the Spirit either, but again there is no "gift of faith" that causes a person to believe there is a God, because as I mentioned re. Romans and as you point out here, God's existence should be self-evident by creation. The reason one person looks at the evidence and walks away while the other accepts it is NOT because God gave faith to the latter, but because they freely chose to accept it. That's all I'm trying to say.


Not true. In the scenario I explained one person would say there is "sufficient evidence" and the other person would say there is not. "Sufficient evidence" is relative. Proof: watching Jesus raise people from the dead and Him walking on water didn't convince Judas. God grants faith in Himself, that's why not a single one of us should be smug, arrogant and puffed-up thinking we are more rational/intelligent/enlightened than the Atheist. We are not, we were graced with faith, not them.

And you're trying to drift into salvation again with your "and the preaching of the gospel" comment. The events of the gospel happened 2,000 years ago, men had been believing in God for thousands of years prior to the events of the gospel.





edit on 6-6-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Since the OP has not shown up to respond at all, it seems clear now that this was neither an honest plea nor even a dare, but the old game of "throw candy on the floor and watch the Christians fight over it". So I'll bow out after this.


Originally posted by NOTurTypical
...God grants faith in Himself

I disagree; people are free to choose what they will do with the evidence.


that's why not a single one of us should be smug, arrogant and puffed-up thinking we are more rational/intelligent/enlightened than the Atheist. We are not, we were graced with faith, not them.

Straw man; nobody is conceited just for making a choice. I'm sorry if you think I am "smug, arrogant and puffed-up" for my view. People make choices all the time without God having to direct them, and without making them smug either.

We are at an impasse.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by SaberTruth
 



Straw man; nobody is conceited just for making a choice. I'm sorry if you think I am "smug, arrogant and puffed-up" for my view. People make choices all the time without God having to direct them, and without making them smug either.


No friend, you've mis-read me. I said none of us in general terms, I don't think you are arrogant and puffed-up.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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what a hack is an Athiest?



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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The Yoga Sutras are basically "an instruction manual" on how to achieve a direct experience of God and what happens along the way. Once you do that, it's not a matter of belief.

Try it out. You're not busy for the next 10-20 years, are you?



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by pellian
please make me believe in God.


Ask God for that. Romans 12:3 says faith itself is a gift from God.

No man can "make" you believe, sorry.

So in other words.. He was doomed to a eternity in hell by God himself according to what you are saying..



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Vandettas
reply to post by pellian
 


I hope a mod closes this thread.

Have to agree, it's embarrasing



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by The Djin

Originally posted by Vandettas
reply to post by pellian
 


I hope a mod closes this thread.

Have to agree, it's embarrasing


yup really thinking its intended flame bait.

2nd



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by pellian
 


Let's pretend you live in age where you don't have any knowledge of the universe, of what shape the entity you exist on is (Earth), let's imagine you don't understand disease, bacteria and there's no clear scientific community or scientific methodology that your people are aware of.

Imagine someone is telling you that there is a being, that has characteristics of a human, but is our creator, our father.

Imagine they're telling you you're a sub-par human, and that word of Jesus, or the word of God (religion) is the "true path".

Imagine them further telling you that you would suffer eternal pain if you don't submit.

Imagine they'd been telling you this since birth, and others the same, for many years. Imagine if you could be beaten or even kiled if you were to disbelieve.

Why wouldn't you convert? Why wouldn't you be scared?

Fortunately, now we have more knowledge. The burden of proof has ALWAYS been on the Theist, and it's managed to survive thus far because of false fear, false hope, and the false consillation of offering "charity" and "love" whilst gaining the full "charity" of it's followers.

Unfortunately, this nonsense still continues in parts of the Word, especially in the Middle-East.

In other words, i can't meet the demands of the OP:
Maybe a Theist can!

edit on 6/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by pellian
 


Actually I'd like to hear your views on abortion and gay marriage.
Theology is/was preventing things like stem cell research and the two mentioned above.
Are you aware that the NWO is reportedly a result of the decline of religion, theology and specifically Christianity and many people are on record right here in this website, as trying to stop it?

The NWO is a world without Christianity.
Why are people against the NWO and the same people, against religion?

edit on 6-6-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Biigs
 


Not as bad as this disgrace;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"When was atheism founded".

LMAO.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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If your an atheist then you have a faith in the unproven so its a religion in itself although you dont have a god perhaps it is oneself.

Christianity requires you try to live a moral life that pretty much excludes atheist.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Shaiker
 



If your an atheist then you have a faith in the unproven so its a religion in itself although you dont have a god perhaps it is oneself.


Atheism is a lack of belief. POSITIVE or GNOSTIC Atheism is a claim; a claim that no RATIONAL atheist makes. It's as irrational as claiming there is a God without any evidence.


Christianity requires you try to live a moral life that pretty much excludes atheist.


LOL. I'm immoral because i'm skeptical of Christianity's extraordinary claims? Derp. Fully-fledged DERP.
edit on 6/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Biigs
 


Not as bad as this disgrace;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"When was atheism founded".

LMAO.


yeah and i got taken in by that too, damnit.

However as an agnostic a "man on the fence", i will fight for anyone and everyones right to their own beliefs as long as it doesnt cause harm to others spritually, mentally or pysicaly.

Voicing your own beliefs and why you have them, is on the menu for all.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by pellian
please make me believe in God.



Originally posted by pellian
i am a orthodox jew. Please ask anything. keep it civil.


troll much?



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Biigs
 



However as an agnostic a "man on the fence", i will fight for anyone and everyones right to their own beliefs as long as it doesnt cause harm to others spritually, mentally or pysicaly.

Voicing your own beliefs and why you have them, is on the menu for all.


I agree.

I'm agnostic too (as is every human is agnostic in regards to the meaning, or cause (if any) of the universe.

But because of that, i'm Atheist.


[Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity, and agnostic because they do not claim to know with certainty whether any deity exists.The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who does believe that one or more deities exist but does not claim to have absolute knowledge of such.


Understand the point made in Bertrand Ruseel's words:-


"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time"


You can either be a agnostic believer because of lack of evidence (FAITH) or an agnostic non-believer because of lack of evidence (AGNOSTIC ATHEISM) or Skeptical disbelief.

GOD MAY be ultimately true, but an intervening God DOES NOT exist, this God does not interfere in human affairs (wars etc.) nor does this God intervene in geological events (earthquakes etc.) This definition of God can be falsified. Many ancient God's can be falsifed because they were created, when evidence was little and supernaturalism was a lot.
edit on 6/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by pellian
please make me believe in God.

its harder than it seems isn't it?



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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okay hows this for a curve ball:

If some connection between all humans exist call this telepathy (on some level), spritual alignment, focused goal and faith to suceed, might this be misinterpreted as "god" the collective concious actually providing hope and love through empathy.

i wish no harm on anyone that doesnt want to harm me, he brought himself to my door, not me to his. when religions tell him to kill non belivers and such.... how is that at all rational.?!

somthing funny i heard on 'the big bang theroy' tv show recently which made me think, she was reffering to going to church on sundays; "I don't object to the concept of a deity, but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance"

highlighting some of the 'rules' some religous folk live by.




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