It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by WatchRider
Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by YoungMind92
Because they come over here illegally and dont pay taxes. Then they get on welfare where is taxpayer expense, they dont speak a damn word of english. Used to have some live down the street from me started off with just a couple mexican dudes after couple months it was 30 of them!
How do illegals get on welfare when they are 'illegal' immigrants in the first place?
It actually reinforce's my belief the ptb are actually clueless when it comes to walking the walk they talk about...
Originally posted by Zyzzz
Ok so if the millions of illegals cant find work to feed their families they are all going to magically disappear from MMMerica ??? lol, They will just turn into real criminals and would kill to feed their families.
Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by neo96
It's fine to make the argument that illegal immigrants pose a detrimental problem to the American economy and infrastructure (which I don't entirely believe), and it's fine to use that argument as a reason to try and fix the alleged problem. But to state that harboring illegal immigrants and offering them sanctuary is somehow unconstitutional is untrue, and to use that claim as justification for treating illegal immigrants as inferior persons is both wrong and malicious.
Originally posted by Night Star
Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by neo96
It's fine to make the argument that illegal immigrants pose a detrimental problem to the American economy and infrastructure (which I don't entirely believe), and it's fine to use that argument as a reason to try and fix the alleged problem. But to state that harboring illegal immigrants and offering them sanctuary is somehow unconstitutional is untrue, and to use that claim as justification for treating illegal immigrants as inferior persons is both wrong and malicious.
Inferior? It is more like illegals are on a pedestal. They have our jobs and have all their needs met while citizens are falling through the cracks. Who is treated as inferior here?
In my opinion we need to take a multi-pronged approach. What you are suggesting is a VERY good idea, that is moving toward the root of the problem. I came to the conclusion, as you mentioned as well, that the government DOES NOT want to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country.
Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
First off you're exaggerating things by a very large margin. Illegal immigrants aren't exactly living the good life by any means. Even if they are receiving very basic government support, that support is still most likely less than the support that legal citizens on welfare receive.
Secondly, my post was basically explaining how people who are against illegal immigration sometimes tend to believe that it is somehow unconstitutional. That isn't exactly true. But people want to use that belief as justification to handle illegal immigrants in a way befitting of someone who's deemed second-rate.
Consider slavery. People who weren't legal citizens of the US were put to work and were treated in a very inferior manner all because they weren't US citizens. And what happened before slaves could be treated equally? They had to be recognized as citizens. They had to be put on equal standing to everyone else in the US.
While it probably isn't the best comparison to make, it still works as an example.
Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
Originally posted by Night Star
Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by neo96
It's fine to make the argument that illegal immigrants pose a detrimental problem to the American economy and infrastructure (which I don't entirely believe), and it's fine to use that argument as a reason to try and fix the alleged problem. But to state that harboring illegal immigrants and offering them sanctuary is somehow unconstitutional is untrue, and to use that claim as justification for treating illegal immigrants as inferior persons is both wrong and malicious.
Inferior? It is more like illegals are on a pedestal. They have our jobs and have all their needs met while citizens are falling through the cracks. Who is treated as inferior here?
First off you're exaggerating things by a very large margin. Illegal immigrants aren't exactly living the good life by any means. Even if they are receiving very basic government support, that support is still most likely less than the support that legal citizens on welfare receive. And I doubt anyone on welfare would brag about "living it up." So the claim that illegal immigrants are placed on some type of pedestal is a bit of a stretch.
Secondly, my post was basically explaining how people who are against illegal immigration sometimes tend to believe that it is somehow unconstitutional. That isn't exactly true. But people want to use that belief as justification to handle illegal immigrants in a way befitting of someone who's deemed second-rate.
Consider slavery. People who weren't legal citizens of the US were put to work and were treated in a very inferior manner all because they weren't US citizens. And what happened before slaves could be treated equally? They had to be recognized as citizens. They had to be put on equal standing to everyone else in the US.
While it probably isn't the best comparison to make, it still works as an example. Because what happens when you have people who are in a country illegally and you have people who want to treat illegal immigrants in such a way? They will be treated as a second-rate person. That's just the reality of things. And that's what I stated in my post.edit on 6-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Night Star
That's a generalization. It's like saying just because one or two families are doing something that means that all of them are. Which isn't necessarily true. Do you have some type of proof of your claim other than your own experience? A stranger's experience isn't exactly credible.
I'm not saying that you aren't telling the truth or anything, it's just that personal experience isn't exactly credible evidence when used in a debate or discussion that's trying to prove or disprove something.
Originally posted by queriousAre you serious?? It's outrageous any illegal alien is on any sort of Government welfare/assistance, for any amount.
Why do you think they are entitled to that? They didn't pay for it. Their parents didn't pay for it.
How do you rationalize someone illegally stealing from the system?
It's no different in my mind then robbing a bank.
Originally posted by queriousI haven't heard talk about being unconstitutional at all, in fact the discussion is the issue with them having provisions of the Constitution, with anchor-babies (14th amendment).
The discussion is passing legislation, like they are doing in several states.
Originally posted by queriousNo, that is not an appropriate example at all. Slaves were brought *against* their will, they didn't have a choice.
Originally posted by queriousIllegal immigrants, come knowing full well they are breaking our laws.. then continue to do so by gaming the system - which they mock is how easy to do, and it's our fault for having such an easy system to game
Originally posted by queriousBut the irony is we built that system (welfare and aid), and it used to work, and made it kinda easy to sign-up for, for the honest folk, because we wanted to make it easy for people in need - not to be exploited by criminals.
People keep trying to say, how could you act that way to human beings?
But it's the whole package that makes it unbearable, the taking of the jobs, the not paying taxes, gaming the system, increase violent crimes. And when there is direct competition for a single job slot, we don't have much of a choice.
'Any body with a basic understanding of Economy 101, ought to know that.'
It's come to the point, you have 2 families that are hungry and desperate for work - 1 family is here illegally and 1-family legal citizens,, what are we going to do ?
Same thing any society/country would do, take care of the Citizen first.
In the future if/when we get things back on track, and everybody that wants a job has one, and there are slots open, I'm sure we will welcome them back with open arms -- just within a legal guest-worker framework.
Originally posted by Gren
reply to post by YoungMind92
no idea, frankly the concept of illegal immigration seems fairly ridiculous
Originally posted by haarvik
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread712862/pg10#pid11533194]post by
What really needs to happen, that us citizens can control is to picket and try to hinder in any way organizations like El Pueblo that treat these people like they are due something. They help them get what they need to survive here. They are the ones that pushed through a bill in NC to allow illegals the RIGHT to attend public universities! Boycott any business that hires, aids or advertises with anyone who supports them. After all, if it is about the $ then take the $ away! Send letters, call or email these businesses. When they start seeing their bottom dollar slipping away, they'll get the message! I don't do business with ANYONE who supports them, champions their cause or advertises with any of their media. If you want them gone, then take away their $!!!