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How to end illegal immigration in a month, its incredably simple.

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posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by WatchRider

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by YoungMind92
 


Because they come over here illegally and dont pay taxes. Then they get on welfare where is taxpayer expense, they dont speak a damn word of english. Used to have some live down the street from me started off with just a couple mexican dudes after couple months it was 30 of them!


How do illegals get on welfare when they are 'illegal' immigrants in the first place?
It actually reinforce's my belief the ptb are actually clueless when it comes to walking the walk they talk about...



Not sure I'd like to know the same thing but they have kids im sure it has do something with that




posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Zyzzz
Ok so if the millions of illegals cant find work to feed their families they are all going to magically disappear from MMMerica ??? lol, They will just turn into real criminals and would kill to feed their families.


American citizens have families to feed too. How many are living in tent cities? All of our homeless shelters are filled to capacity. These people are not out killing others.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by neo96
 


It's fine to make the argument that illegal immigrants pose a detrimental problem to the American economy and infrastructure (which I don't entirely believe), and it's fine to use that argument as a reason to try and fix the alleged problem. But to state that harboring illegal immigrants and offering them sanctuary is somehow unconstitutional is untrue, and to use that claim as justification for treating illegal immigrants as inferior persons is both wrong and malicious.


Inferior? It is more like illegals are on a pedestal. They have our jobs and have all their needs met while citizens are falling through the cracks. Who is treated as inferior here?



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by Evanzsayz
 


In which case, if true, I would have to ask who in their right mind would deny a child basic financial support? If an illegal immigrant's family managed to get on welfare because of their children, then what do you think would happen to the children if these families were taken off of welfare?

They'd be left to starve, or the entire families would be deported, or the children would be stripped from their families and would be put in the adoption system while their parents/adult members of the families are deported. And if the children were put into the adoption system, that's just "feeding" the problem, as it were, because people would just be going from one "entitlement" program to the next.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by openminded2011
 



OP, what kind of psychotropic drugs are you using today? (poor attempt at satire)

If you understand just a modicum of economy 101 and policy you would know that the
U.S. government IS also an incorporated U.S. government which also means THEY are in business to:

-You guessed it! Make money and sell products and services...

You CANNOT get rid of the illegal immigrants and gain *new* monies from these undocumented people.


It's pretty simple. The U.S. government NEEDS (not wants) NEEDS them here.
So basically if you disagree: tough #e and get over it says Uncle Sam!


What's that? Talk to your congressman?
The same congressman who #s on your family's welfare and pissed on their future security by
honoring the wishes of those who contributed big time capital towards their campaign and administration
INSTEAD of being a man/woman rep of the people????


Yeah, exactly...
Your choices are:

-Stand up, peacefully revolt against the tyranny...
-complain, whine and bit ch about the times....
-post pointless threads that do NOTHING but argue a point without substance.



^^^ Your choice sir.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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It doesn't surprise me this thread has grown to Epic proportions. The sad fact is, is like many posters replied in this thread just give it some time to collapse the economy and they'll be leaving fast as they came...like pirates abandoning a sinking ship...it is going to happen because nobody will ever follow the practical well thought out solutions (and honestly the OP isn't that well thought out because it would never be able to be done in a month or on a century because the cops can't even police simple things like drunk drivers). That being said there have been some good answers here in the thread however, they will always fall on deaf ears. And tons of people touting how the exploitation of these people help keep costs down and also help keep food in the stores. Then the bleeding hearts with the "they're only trying to make themselves a better life" Blah blah blah... well just tell me please and this is a serious inquiry...Where do all the disillusioned, displaced, down trodden from America go to find a better opportunity?
Is there such a place... tell me now if there is and I will make the move to legally emigrate there!
Thanks and peace out; LA RAZA you can have this Titanic disaster called the U S of A.
~LdySerenity
edit on 6-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: fix sentence

edit on 6-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: spelling



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by neo96
 


It's fine to make the argument that illegal immigrants pose a detrimental problem to the American economy and infrastructure (which I don't entirely believe), and it's fine to use that argument as a reason to try and fix the alleged problem. But to state that harboring illegal immigrants and offering them sanctuary is somehow unconstitutional is untrue, and to use that claim as justification for treating illegal immigrants as inferior persons is both wrong and malicious.


Inferior? It is more like illegals are on a pedestal. They have our jobs and have all their needs met while citizens are falling through the cracks. Who is treated as inferior here?


First off you're exaggerating things by a very large margin. Illegal immigrants aren't exactly living the good life by any means. Even if they are receiving very basic government support, that support is still most likely less than the support that legal citizens on welfare receive. And I doubt anyone on welfare would brag about "living it up." So the claim that illegal immigrants are placed on some type of pedestal is a bit of a stretch.

Secondly, my post was basically explaining how people who are against illegal immigration sometimes tend to believe that it is somehow unconstitutional. That isn't exactly true. But people want to use that belief as justification to handle illegal immigrants in a way befitting of someone who's deemed second-rate.

Consider slavery. People who weren't legal citizens of the US were put to work and were treated in a very inferior manner all because they weren't US citizens. And what happened before slaves could be treated equally? They had to be recognized as citizens. They had to be put on equal standing to everyone else in the US.

While it probably isn't the best comparison to make, it still works as an example. Because what happens when you have people who are in a country illegally and you have people who want to treat illegal immigrants in such a way? They will be treated as a second-rate person. That's just the reality of things. And that's what I stated in my post.
edit on 6-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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In my opinion we need to take a multi-pronged approach. What you are suggesting is a VERY good idea, that is moving toward the root of the problem. I came to the conclusion, as you mentioned as well, that the government DOES NOT want to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country.

I told a story some days ago about my uncle's wife attempting to LEGALLY get into the country. Even with a BIG law firm, it took 2 years and LOTS of money. I mean LOTS. That is part of why this pisses me off so much. Illegal immigrants have NO right to be here, because they undercut our native workers. If they want to be here, then invade us militarily...Take the land from US like we took it from the Indians...

But in reality they are invading. Living in Texas I see how bad it is, as do the folks on the border states...Arizona, NM, California...So if they are invading, shouldn't landowners who find illegal immigrant trespassers on their property be able to protect and defend their land? I mean there are quite a lot of drugs and shady people coming over the border, and I would not take that lightly if I owned land located there.

I know, I know, violence is not the answer...But it irks me that the FEDERAL government is doing absolutely NOTHING. I know the law regarding whether you may defend your property if someone is in your house, or your car, at least in Tx, but I have no idea whether that applies to property.

Anyway, I am rambling, so I just want to say that the multi-pronged approach I was talking about should be going after the employers, the immigrants themselves, Mexico directly, and laws that make it nearly impossible for immigrants to do anything in this country without proof of citizenship. That is the way to eliminate the majority of the problems in my opinion.

I cannot understand how anyone could view illegal immigration as a good thing. That's what some politicians are trying to force down our throats for their own benefit.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 



In my opinion we need to take a multi-pronged approach. What you are suggesting is a VERY good idea, that is moving toward the root of the problem. I came to the conclusion, as you mentioned as well, that the government DOES NOT want to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country.


This is the heart of the matter right there. I don't want to sound like a nutcase conspiracy theorist here, but I really do think this is all planned out. Look at the land grab the government has sanctioned, look how desperate we Americans are for jobs that we'd practically sell our souls for jobs even MCjobs...there can't be peaceful revolution say for instance the whole entire country walking out of our jobs (most are too scared to lose them anyway) because they'd just replace all the workers with the illegal aliens here. If we all could walk out on a national strike and the illegals weren't here we could grind the wheels to a halt and bring the country to it's knees, they know this, hence that's what illegals are here for. So if we ever did try to pull that they'd have replacements as quick as you can say "NAtional Strike Day" Well that's what I believe.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

First off you're exaggerating things by a very large margin. Illegal immigrants aren't exactly living the good life by any means. Even if they are receiving very basic government support, that support is still most likely less than the support that legal citizens on welfare receive.

Are you serious?? It's outrageous any illegal alien is on any sort of Government welfare/assistance, for any amount.
Why do you think they are entitled to that? They didn't pay for it. Their parents didn't pay for it.
How do you rationalize someone illegally stealing from the system?
It's no different in my mind then robbing a bank.



Secondly, my post was basically explaining how people who are against illegal immigration sometimes tend to believe that it is somehow unconstitutional. That isn't exactly true. But people want to use that belief as justification to handle illegal immigrants in a way befitting of someone who's deemed second-rate.

I haven't heard talk about being unconstitutional at all, in fact the discussion is the issue with them having provisions of the Constitution, with anchor-babies (14th amendment).
The discussion is passing legislation, like they are doing in several states.



Consider slavery. People who weren't legal citizens of the US were put to work and were treated in a very inferior manner all because they weren't US citizens. And what happened before slaves could be treated equally? They had to be recognized as citizens. They had to be put on equal standing to everyone else in the US.

While it probably isn't the best comparison to make, it still works as an example.

No, that is not an appropriate example at all. Slaves were brought *against* their will, they didn't have a choice.
Illegal immigrants, come knowing full well they are breaking our laws.. then continue to do so by gaming the system - which they mock is how easy to do, and it's our fault for having such an easy system to game...

But the irony is we built that system (welfare and aid), and it used to work, and made it kinda easy to sign-up for, for the honest folk, because we wanted to make it easy for people in need - not to be exploited by criminals.


People keep trying to say, how could you act that way to human beings?
But it's the whole package that makes it unbearable, the taking of the jobs, the not paying taxes, gaming the system, increase violent crimes. And when there is direct competition for a single job slot, we don't have much of a choice.
'Any body with a basic understanding of Economy 101, ought to know that.'


It's come to the point, you have 2 families that are hungry and desperate for work - 1 family is here illegally and 1-family legal citizens,, what are we going to do ?
Same thing any society/country would do, take care of the Citizen first.
In the future if/when we get things back on track, and everybody that wants a job has one, and there are slots open, I'm sure we will welcome them back with open arms -- just within a legal guest-worker framework.

edit on 7-6-2011 by querious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by neo96
 


It's fine to make the argument that illegal immigrants pose a detrimental problem to the American economy and infrastructure (which I don't entirely believe), and it's fine to use that argument as a reason to try and fix the alleged problem. But to state that harboring illegal immigrants and offering them sanctuary is somehow unconstitutional is untrue, and to use that claim as justification for treating illegal immigrants as inferior persons is both wrong and malicious.


Inferior? It is more like illegals are on a pedestal. They have our jobs and have all their needs met while citizens are falling through the cracks. Who is treated as inferior here?


First off you're exaggerating things by a very large margin. Illegal immigrants aren't exactly living the good life by any means. Even if they are receiving very basic government support, that support is still most likely less than the support that legal citizens on welfare receive. And I doubt anyone on welfare would brag about "living it up." So the claim that illegal immigrants are placed on some type of pedestal is a bit of a stretch.

Secondly, my post was basically explaining how people who are against illegal immigration sometimes tend to believe that it is somehow unconstitutional. That isn't exactly true. But people want to use that belief as justification to handle illegal immigrants in a way befitting of someone who's deemed second-rate.

Consider slavery. People who weren't legal citizens of the US were put to work and were treated in a very inferior manner all because they weren't US citizens. And what happened before slaves could be treated equally? They had to be recognized as citizens. They had to be put on equal standing to everyone else in the US.

While it probably isn't the best comparison to make, it still works as an example. Because what happens when you have people who are in a country illegally and you have people who want to treat illegal immigrants in such a way? They will be treated as a second-rate person. That's just the reality of things. And that's what I stated in my post.
edit on 6-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)


With all due respect, I have known many illegals and they are indeed living a good life. They also work and collect welfare at the same time. The women lie saying they are a one income household when in reality they are a two income household making well above the poverty limit! Some of their men work under the table tax free, women have jobs and collect welfare benefits, food stamps, free medical, cheap housing etc. These people are well taken care of while many of our citizens are falling through the cracks and cannot afford all their basic necessities. This is just wrong!



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by YoungMind92
 


no idea, frankly the concept of illegal immigration seems fairly ridiculous



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


That's a generalization. It's like saying just because one or two families are doing something that means that all of them are. Which isn't necessarily true. Do you have some type of proof of your claim other than your own experience? A stranger's experience isn't exactly credible.

I'm not saying that you aren't telling the truth or anything, it's just that personal experience isn't exactly credible evidence when used in a debate or discussion that's trying to prove or disprove something.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Night Star
 


That's a generalization. It's like saying just because one or two families are doing something that means that all of them are. Which isn't necessarily true. Do you have some type of proof of your claim other than your own experience? A stranger's experience isn't exactly credible.

I'm not saying that you aren't telling the truth or anything, it's just that personal experience isn't exactly credible evidence when used in a debate or discussion that's trying to prove or disprove something.


There are many stories in the news about such things. These are not just a few people here and there defrauding the sytem. It is very late and I am tired and frustrated always trying to defend the American citizens. If you do a serious search on illegal immigration and its impact on the American citizen, it will become crystal clear. Perhaps tomorrow if I have the time and energy I will try to locate some links for you.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by queriousAre you serious?? It's outrageous any illegal alien is on any sort of Government welfare/assistance, for any amount.
Why do you think they are entitled to that? They didn't pay for it. Their parents didn't pay for it.
How do you rationalize someone illegally stealing from the system?
It's no different in my mind then robbing a bank.


Am I serious about what? I didn't say that illegal immigrants are entitled to anything. I just pointed out the reality that someone who's on welfare of any kind isn't exactly living any type of good life as if they were a high roller. Do you disagree with that assessment? But you're free to believe whatever you want to believe.


Originally posted by queriousI haven't heard talk about being unconstitutional at all, in fact the discussion is the issue with them having provisions of the Constitution, with anchor-babies (14th amendment).
The discussion is passing legislation, like they are doing in several states.


My initial post in this thread was a reply to a post that was made by neo96, which also happened to be the second post in this thread. In his post, neo96 said that people believe it is a constitutional right for illegal immigrants to live and work in this country. And my reply to that was stating that the constitutional doesn't really say anything for or against illegal immigrants living and working in the US.

After that, well, the replies that I received from my initial post eventually led me to this one with you. So you actually are replying to a post that was pertaining to illegal immigration having been said to be constitutional/unconstitutional.


Originally posted by queriousNo, that is not an appropriate example at all. Slaves were brought *against* their will, they didn't have a choice.


It's appropriate when put into it perspective and within the proper context, which I did. People who aren't legal citizens tend to be recognized in an inferior light and are treated in a similar manner. I don't agree with it being that way, but that's just how it is.


Originally posted by queriousIllegal immigrants, come knowing full well they are breaking our laws.. then continue to do so by gaming the system - which they mock is how easy to do, and it's our fault for having such an easy system to game


Who mocks that it's easy to do? It sounds like you're exaggerating things. Illegal immigrants may come here knowing that they're breaking our laws, but they're doing so because they want to create a better life for themselves and their families.

Do you have proof of your claims?


Originally posted by queriousBut the irony is we built that system (welfare and aid), and it used to work, and made it kinda easy to sign-up for, for the honest folk, because we wanted to make it easy for people in need - not to be exploited by criminals.


People keep trying to say, how could you act that way to human beings?
But it's the whole package that makes it unbearable, the taking of the jobs, the not paying taxes, gaming the system, increase violent crimes. And when there is direct competition for a single job slot, we don't have much of a choice.
'Any body with a basic understanding of Economy 101, ought to know that.'


It's come to the point, you have 2 families that are hungry and desperate for work - 1 family is here illegally and 1-family legal citizens,, what are we going to do ?
Same thing any society/country would do, take care of the Citizen first.
In the future if/when we get things back on track, and everybody that wants a job has one, and there are slots open, I'm sure we will welcome them back with open arms -- just within a legal guest-worker framework.


While I can appreciate what you're saying, the problem doesn't necessarily lie in the illegal immigration alone. Even if every illegal immigrant was rounded up and deported from this country (there's said to be about 11-12 million undocumented workers in this country), there's still an unemployment rate of about 12-14 million. It might look good on paper, but it's nothing more than a band-aid fix to a much larger problem.

15-20 years down the road, that 2 million unemployed would skyrocket again even with the decline of the illegal immigrant population, because businesses are still outsourcing jobs and moving overseas, companies are still laying off workers to increase profit, the population is still growing, and a lot of menial, manual labor tasks that the undocumented workers are filling are becoming automated due to technology.

So unless something can be done to fix the way businesses and corporations are allowed to operate in a way that is beneficial to the United State's economy and infrastructure, the crux of the problem that is said to be caused by illegal immigration will still persist.

And the way that states are trying to dismantle unions, do away with minimum wage/welfare/social security, with the way that inflation is still steadily increasing while wages pretty much stay the same, there is a much, much bigger problem to be seen in the bigger picture. Even if illegal immigrants were completely done away with in the US, our own citizens would still be treated like garbage by businesses and would still be left to suffer in the reality of a growing population.

So imo illegal immigration is trivial when compared to some of the other problems the US is facing and is going to face. And even if the immigration system is fixed, there's still the main problem that needs to be fixed.
edit on 7-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


You aren't so much defending the American citizen so much as you are demonizing illegal immigrants.

I have done some serious research into illegal immigration and the United States economy/infrastructure. And imo fixing immigration wouldn't really even fix unemployment or the economy on any long-term or meaningful level.
edit on 7-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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Here in spain instead of sweeping the issue under the carpet, in the end they had to acknowledge it.
There where about 6 or 7 million illegals here, many working illegaly.
In the end they understood it was better to legalise their situation and tax them.
You could inform the police on your employer and they'd fine him if you worked for him illegaly without fear of prosecution if you didnt have a work permit.
Those who could prove they had more than 5 years in Spain were legalised.
Businesses were fined or shut down.
Now there are millions more paying taxes, feeding the local economies and still sending money home.
It was a win-win situation for the government. They deported the ones that didnt want to work or contribute to society and your normal everyday guy now didnt live in fear of deportation.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by Gren
reply to post by YoungMind92
 


no idea, frankly the concept of illegal immigration seems fairly ridiculous


It is no more ridiculous than concept of illegal entering into your house.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist
 


You are so out of touch with reality it isn't even funny. I used to install cable TV and satellite. I would go into the low income apartment complexes and there would be a woman on welfare, shacked up with a guy (maybe husband) and they would have the top of the line 60inch LCD TV with a 5.1 surround sound, a Kenwood stereo system, flat screens in each room no smaller than 40 inch. They would be driving BMW's and Mercedes. Some houses I went to looked like they should be condemned on the outside, but go inside and same story. You know they are on welfare because the food stamp books would be on the counter. I actually got into a discussion with one guy who told me he makes more money selling his food stamps than he did working a $15/hr job! So you go ahead and believe the made up bullsh*t that the MSM feeds you. People know who to work the welfare system. That's why we have third generation recipients!

What really needs to happen, that us citizens can control is to picket and try to hinder in any way organizations like El Pueblo that treat these people like they are due something. They help them get what they need to survive here. They are the ones that pushed through a bill in NC to allow illegals the RIGHT to attend public universities! Boycott any business that hires, aids or advertises with anyone who supports them. After all, if it is about the $ then take the $ away! Send letters, call or email these businesses. When they start seeing their bottom dollar slipping away, they'll get the message! I don't do business with ANYONE who supports them, champions their cause or advertises with any of their media. If you want them gone, then take away their $!!!



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by haarvik
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread712862/pg10#pid11533194]post by



What really needs to happen, that us citizens can control is to picket and try to hinder in any way organizations like El Pueblo that treat these people like they are due something. They help them get what they need to survive here. They are the ones that pushed through a bill in NC to allow illegals the RIGHT to attend public universities! Boycott any business that hires, aids or advertises with anyone who supports them. After all, if it is about the $ then take the $ away! Send letters, call or email these businesses. When they start seeing their bottom dollar slipping away, they'll get the message! I don't do business with ANYONE who supports them, champions their cause or advertises with any of their media. If you want them gone, then take away their $!!!


That is exactly what needs to happen and I support anyone that wants to exercise their influence in the market place by choosing to shop or boycott any corporation that you disagree with their policies.
Also making your thoughts known thru letters, emails or phone calls and to vote for the candidates that reflect your feelings on any subject or issue is proper procedure.


edit on 7-6-2011 by whaaa because: PT pt pt



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