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Originally posted by Dasher
People argue too much.
Communists / murderers and liars trying to establish or maintain their empires.
Capitalists / murderers and liars trying to establish or maintain their empires.
Socialists / murderers and liars trying to establish or maintain their empires.
Anyone see the common denominator?
There is no way to avoid arrogance and ignorance in this world, so it is best kept in check by small government.
Many Tribes, but One Body, of Mankind.
Originally posted by Jay-morris
I asked you a question, i did not say that this is how you felt. There is a difference!
Clearly you have a thing about communist. They are as bad as eachother.
Some countries who have never touched communism have done truely terrible things and still are doing terrible things.
It does not matter if its communism or not, its the people in charge that make these desicions.
It was you who believed that not many westerners go to china to live.
It was you who said that most of the population was in poverty, both of these is a load of rubbish. Where did you get this information from? While there is poverty in China, its not as bad as you make out.
Why is it better than a one party communist state?
Obviosly, you don't know much about China's history.
Look where China was 30 years ago, to where they are now. There has been a huge improvement.
Yes, they need to improve some more, but its the uk that is in all this dept, that has a huge problem with crime, has a huge anti social behaviour problem.
So, what country is look the better, China or UK? all all this as a communist state. Other countries, esp usa have brainwashed people into thinking that communist states are evil. But its the people in charge, wheather its communist or not.
We and America are not communist states, but we have done some truely horrible things in the last 10 years or so. Invading the middle east is one of them. Do you know how many people dies in the iraq war? I guess we done it to free the irag people! lol what such good people we are!
So, because this one chinese person is happier in the uk, that means all Chinese people are happeir in the uk. I guess you know my wife is more happier in the uk?
People from the uk are not seeking asylum in China. They go to china because they want too. They go there, get jobs and have children in China. Because they want too!
Of course many people want to come to the uk from outside. Its easy to live in the uk. If you don't work, you get everything paid for you. Its alot easier to live in the uk than most countries, because we are so soft, simple as that.
What a load of rubbish! This country is falling apart, and has been for a long time. Not to mention the huge depts that we have. You might think its ok for our parties to make a habbit of just disagreeing with eachother. You might think its a way forward. Well, thats up to you.
Like i said before, China is not perfect, and they have done some truely bad things. But other countires who are not communist are doing truely horrible stuff too.
When are you going to figure out that its the people in charge, no matter how the country is run.
Lol why don't you go and look yourself. It is common knowledge that the soldier were attacked. Not just attacked but burnt and hanged up. Why don't you look more into Tiananmen Square Massacre before you preach the crap you recieved from the media outside of China. But no matter what you read, you will not believe it because the Chinese governments are evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im glad that other people on this thread will see how much crap you write. You have not been to China, but you said that there are only some westerners in China. Please tell me how you came to this conclusion. I would really love to know.
Originally posted by Jay-morris
Very well said mate! But too many people are brainwashed by there own governments, even if they think they are not
Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Cryptonomicon
The great Wikileaks has spoken, never question anything they report their every word is truth.
Nothing but reports from the Ministery of Truth. If they say it is so it is.
Those videos bring back some horrible memories as I remeber watching the NEWS on the nights that the protests started building up back when I was 12. I bet you a million dollars 99% of the people in China have never even seen those images or videos, and if they attempted to show them were probably either shot or taken off to prison.
you either lie or forget what you write, you continually accuse me of listening to govt/media bs, even though I have put you straight on several occasions
Who is as bad as each other? Communism is always at the WORST end of the scale, never forget that
point me to where I suggested otherwise
Yes, but you singularly miss the point that Communism in principle makes this more likely to happen and has a more or less 100% proven track record of doing so when it leaps from a text book
It is not a question of belief, I am aware that westerners live in China and have stated so, there is just not a significant minority of them there, we are not talking tens of millions for example (bearing in mind this is a country of one billion plus)
Move outside the cities Mr China man, and read a little, you waffled about google earlier, go google it
Let me get this straight, you are not a communist, but question why having a choice is better? Seriously?
I do not support war in the middle east and do not care if they are the next super power- it shows how stunted their system is that a country with over a billion people is not already the superpower, because, once again, most people live much poorer than their western equivalents- the only thing I will concede is that at least they have some social order which is sadly lacking in the west
I do, there you go with those false assumptions again
I am aware of this and I agree, and I hope they improve further and move away from their repressive one party communist state with neither free right to assembly, protest, judiciary, media etc
see above about communism, and again, at least Americans have more sources of income and freedom when arrested, freedom to protest etc (however imperfect) which Chinese people do not
Step off the assumptions, my kith and kin should not be dying in those hell holes
What I was doing was putting your point that because you had been there, and weirdly think China has a better system than the UK, that it does not trump the obvious facts and two can play that game, I know several people who left China for asylum reasons- British people are not fleeing to China for asylum
Two points- they are not fleeing a repressive regime, whilst the opposite is true for those coming from China, HENCE they seek asylum. For sure there is business oppportunities for well connected westerners, but we are not talking about a mass flow of westerners living in China- once again, give me these numbers, you seem to think there are huge numbers of westerners there- China has a population of one billion plus, would westerners even make up 1% of the population?
Our imperfect system, whilst better than China, needs improving, must I repeat my disgust for the lib/lab/tory consensus
You are indulging in too much Chinese communist worship, think for yourself man, blaming the massacre on the students themselves ffs
Don't get angry because I don't agree with your Chinese communist love in, settle yourself, though with that sort of totalitarian attitude, you might shoot up the ranks of the communist party comrade, dealing with counter revolutionaries like me!
Nothing wrong with the term "some"- the next step up would be "many", and I doubt there are tens of millions of westerners living there............
you questioned why multi party systems are better than one party communist systems, and said "well said" to someone who suggested "small govt"
Bonus points there fella
You only get to vote for the party you want in Charge, thats it. Whats so great about that when the party you vote for, gets elected, and completly changes their plans once they are in. Oh yeah, that choice is great. What the point in choosing a party, that are all the same? They make a habbit of just disagreeing with eachother, thats what they do. Im not saying that communist is better, i never have done. I have said they are all as bad as eachother, and they are.
Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by Cryptonomicon
those are the reports from BBC aren't they not? which i recall BBC was very anti russian,anti china back in the early 80s,90s.
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
More from article:
""He watched the military enter the square and did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops which entered the square were actually armed only with anti-riot gear – truncheons and wooden clubs; they were backed up by armed soldiers," a cable from July 1989 said.
The diplomat, who was positioned next to a Red Cross station inside Tiananmen Square, said a line of troops surrounded him and "panicked" medical staff into fleeing. However, he said that there was "no mass firing into the crowd of students at the monument". "
So it turns out that the Tiananmen massacre was another Western fabrication. It was even standard education to be taught this when I was in highschool.
It's hard to trust anything about modern history...
(visit the link for the full news article)