New European E. coli Information/Treatment and is it a Man-Made Creation?!

reply to post by muons200


Just one counterpoint : The identification of a novel agent and the diagnosis of a newer/genetically different strain, in most hospitals/locations, takes time, money and advanced technology. Example : A Culture and Sensitivity comes back with a final result in 72 hours. You see a crazy resistance pattern, but still treat the infection. Unless you see many, many people with the same bug with same results you won't think anything to crazy. Add in the HUS in a few and now you have concern. You then need to send out the sample for genetic sequencing (hopefully not at the Institutions expense) and in a few days you have an answer. Don't forget now you have to find the offending food/contaminator and what each person may have had in common (eating at say a local establishment).
That takes a decent amount of time. Now that there is a public health concern, the Federales will get involved. It's not that they hide or cover it up, it takes a decent amount of time.

But your example of poorer/jungle/remote locations on this planet where there is no or substandard healthcare its a double damn whammy.

Vaccine production is only useful if the "cure" isn't permanent : you need multiple shots in sequence to get a proper titer count, then boosters every few years. Chris Rock (comedian) said it best a few years ago "There's no money in the cure, the money's in the medicine." And yes, don't forget the unintended consequences such as Raynaud's or Guillain-Barré syndrome.

And don't even get me started on Internet sales of medication or vaccines or medical devices. You might as well just take a giant placebo or drink some Drain-o since you have no idea what the hell is in it.

A senior German doctor last night called for an investigation into the possibility that the bacteria had been spread deliberately. Klaus-Dieter Zastrow, chief doctor for hygiene at Berlin’s Vivantes hospital, said: “It’s quite possible that there’s a crazy person out there who thinks 'I’ll kill a few people or give 10,000 people diarrhoea’. It’s a negligent mistake not to investigate in that direction.”
source

In many circumstancies surrounding an outbreak, there are different groups pooling information. but each group investigating different apsects of the out break.

Multiple agencies will be invovled, also a group that will look at the evidence to see if it is a natural event or manmade.

Some of these investigations will run long after the event has been contained. just because its not mentioned ( for many reasons) does not mean the authorities are not looking into if this is a man made event.

Just a few more interesting things from this outbreak this morning :

www.dailymail.co.uk...

From the above article :

Scientists hunting the source of the deadly mutant E.coli outbreak in Germany have switched the focus of their investigation to a restaurant and a festival attended by 1.5 million people. More than 30 diners, including a group of German tax officials and Danish tourists, fell ill and one woman died after eating lunch at the Kartoffel-Keller (Potato Cellar) restaurant in the northern port city of Lubeck. Health inspectors are investigating suppliers to the restaurant and to street vendors 40 miles away at the Hamburg Port Festival, known as the Hafengeburtstag.

And now this from the UK Daily Mail (I know, I know)..

www.dailymail.co.uk...

So our overseas neighbors are concerned about a "terrorist" poisoning the food supply in supermarkets. Like this isn't a direct shot at what is going on in Germany and the rest of Europe.

Just some AM food for thought.

I probably should have posted this here originally-

When I heard about this new strain of EColi that is killing people across Europe I began thinking about genetically modified food. There is another thread discussing how genetic modified food alters the digestive system. Below is some info on the effects of this virus, the food that it is alleged to be the source, and the gen modified versions of these foods.

One person in Sweden also died. In Germany, there have been 573 cases of hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) -- a form of kidney failure -- in the current European outbreak, according to WHO. That's more cases of HUS than in any other recorded outbreak, worldwide. Twelve patients in Germany have died of HUS, according to WHO, while six died of enterohemorrhagic E. coli, EHEC, a strain that causes hemorrhaging in the intestines and can result in abdominal cramps and bloody diarrhea. Reports indicate that an estimated 1,428 people have that E. coli strain so far but do not have HUS, according to the World Health Organization

Around every other HUS patient suffers serious neurological complications. The patients become disoriented, have difficulty expressing themselves, suffer convulsions. Some become apathetic, others make strange noises. Some get such strong cramp attacks they have to be restrained

'We're sleeping badly, and have bad dreams,' Kiemes says quietly. 'We can't get the images of suffering patients out of our heads.' The neurological breakdowns of patients are particularly concerning. 'When their condition gets worse, then it's dramatic.'

Link to virus info on RSOE

The authorities are blaming Cucumber for the outbreak and are warning people not to eat uncooked vegetables especially cucumber, tomato and lettuce. This raises more concerns about GM foods because I know that these foods have had their DNA changed to stop the Mosaic virus.

Abstract
Biological active cDNA clones of cucumber mosaic virus (CMV) RNAs 1 and 2 were modified by addition of sequences that encode hexahistidine (His-tag) at the amino- (N-) or carboxy- (C-) terminus of the 1a and 2a proteins. These proteins are essential components of the viral RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp)

Also,

Membrane-bound tomato mosaic virus replication proteins participate in RNA synthesis and are associated with host proteins in a pattern distinct from those that are not membrane bound.

Link to NCBI - GM Cucumbers

In the grand scheme of things, this E.Coli outbreak is not very serious at all, considering the amount of attention it's getting and the amount of fear mongering beginning to start, it's ridiculous!

When deaths start hitting thousands per day then i'll come here and say "we have a serious situation", the common cold kills more people per day than this E.Coli outbreak.

I don't understand what all the fuss is about to be honest.

So far the e.coli outbreak has killed 19 people world wide, its estimated that hundreds of thousands of people die from flu each year world wide, but the flu gets not nearly as much attention that this has had.

I predict that the this whole E.Coli situation will be under control within the month.

reply to post by Seagle


Just a quick question - I thought the EU banned all GM plant seeds and foods?

But looking at this, the genetic modification to eliminate the Mosaic virus, how would that affect E. coli? Unless the seeds were, idk, implanted with plasmids containing the genetic material related to resistance, adhesion or Shiga toxin. That is way off from what the genetic material encoded for the Mosaic Virus resistance is. Are you implying that as the food is digested in our stomach/intestines, that free floating DNA/RNA from the foods (tomato/lettuce/cucumber) are now being taken up by our normal E. coli gut flora and overgrowing to the problems we are experiencing in Germany right now? For so many to become ill in 2 different locations (as speculated right now), that would be, well, impossible. Unless Patient Zero literally crapped the salad buffet and everyone partook in the salads....

But yes, GM crops = bad.

reply to post by Itop1


Hopefully in 1 month things will be under control...if we can find the source of the outbreak and inform anyone/everyone to it.

But to say hundreds of thousands of people die from Influenza every year worldwide is possibly an understatement or maybe and overstatement.

US alone Influenza and Pneumonia deaths in 2009 was 52,717.

www.cdc.gov...

In all reality it is probably much higher that that in the US. People really do not die of Influenza, they die from Pneumonia or other opportunistic infections that will occur when the lungs become affected with Influenza (S. pneumoniae is my favorite) or other organ failure, heart attack or other mayhem that is unleashed during a cytokine storm.

Just saying it may be higher - 3rd world deaths or large urban centers outside Europe and US do not have great reporting systems for these events. Or lower depending on who is counting and filling out the death certificates.

And for fun, here is a link to the most recent data on all deaths in the US. Breaks it down pretty well too :
www.cdc.gov...

Originally posted by harddrive21
reply to post by Itop1

 

Hopefully in 1 month things will be under control...if we can find the source of the outbreak and inform anyone/everyone to it.

But to say hundreds of thousands of people die from Influenza every year worldwide is possibly an understatement or maybe and overstatement.

US alone Influenza and Pneumonia deaths in 2009 was 52,717.

www.cdc.gov...

In all reality it is probably much higher that that in the US. People really do not die of Influenza, they die from Pneumonia or other opportunistic infections that will occur when the lungs become affected with Influenza (S. pneumoniae is my favorite) or other organ failure, heart attack or other mayhem that is unleashed during a cytokine storm.

Just saying it may be higher - 3rd world deaths or large urban centers outside Europe and US do not have great reporting systems for these events. Or lower depending on who is counting and filling out the death certificates.

And for fun, here is a link to the most recent data on all deaths in the US. Breaks it down pretty well too :
www.cdc.gov...

The reason why i used the word "Estimated" was for that very reason, the number is very high but nobody really knows the true figures, and we are pretty damn good at getting these types of situations under control these days, like said though if people start dropping like flies.... (thousands each day) i will start worrying.

New today..

Signs that E. coli cases are stabilising, say doctors

European health officials say there are signs that the outbreak of a deadly strain of E. coli is stabilising.

Source

So now the best guess is Bean Sprouts? But I so loved the "Killer Cukes" fear mongering headlines :

ca.news.yahoo.com...

And who is to blame? According to this, we all are - thank you antibiotic resistance.

www.guardian.co.uk...