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In Alabama, a Harsh Bill for Residents Here Illegally

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posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by stevooo
reply to post by macman
 


Ask "La Raza" if its a racial issue. look up what ATZLAN is. you can stick your head in the sand and say its not racial but it is. Realistically mass deportation is a legal & constitutional nightmare. the only solution is to end social welfare and give illegals a path to citizenship.


Whoa. Now YOU have made it a racial issue. So let me punch that card for you...



Border War: Blind Eye of America




posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by stevooo
reply to post by 27jd
 


even if its not racial to you it is to them. Many of them consider SW USA their native land. all im saying is bring them into the fold of liberty, get them on the tax rolls, and dont give them a free ride.


SW US is NOT their native land. The natives of the SW will tell you that.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by JosephMatthew
People who think more immigration laws will fix anything really amaze me.

Can't you see the root issue here? You're afraid so called illegals are going to take your resources. Thus, the issue is one of scarcity, a technical problem not a political or legal one.

You are fed this false idea that there isn't enough for everyone, so we "have to" have borders, laws, money, property, police, most jobs, judges... All 300 year old thinking (at least)...

Today we have the technological means to provide resources efficiently for everyone; our social & political systems today are extremely wasteful & provably ineffective. Your being lied to about this to keep the machine of differential advantage going. Ask yourself this; when has a politician ever tangibly helped build a school or a bridge or eliminated hunger in a community?

Isn't it time we grew up as a species & demanded more from each other and effectively eliminate scarcity in our societies? If not now, then when?

We are ONE planet; why don't you do your part to evolve our species?


While I appreciate your humanitarian view of things, you sound like the same Globalists who have put us in peril. We have sovereign borders for a reason. While we understand that those who cross our Southern Border "just want to work" and feed their families, there are plenty of jobs in Mexico, in fact all the same construction, agriculture, and mining jobs they seek in the States. Mexico has more resources than you may imagine, in fact they have gold and oil. So tell me why we should let them stay illegally and send their money back to Mexico, and take resources that taxpayers pay for, when it is Mexico's problem? The fact is that Mexico does not pay as high for those jobs as the States, and that is why they seek these jobs here. Let Mexico figure out it's own stuff. The truth is, it is the globalists who do not care about sovereignty and borders. They want to get rid of the dollar and replace it with the Amero. In the meantime, Marxists are promoting the idea that the Southwest still belongs to Mexico and they are promoting mass migration for purposes of takeover.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by macman
Yeah, and the GDP is now skewed by the Govt in a vain attempt to show China that the books are in the black and not the red?

Sorry, but your logic fails. The economy is bad.


My logic fails? The economy is bad cause you say so? How about something to back that up. I at least offered some numbers even if they are fudged they would probably be accurate +/- 15%.


With your logic applied, I ask the following questions.
If it is good, then why hasn't Obama "Spread the wealth" like he promised?
If it is bad, then why hasn't Obama fixed it like he promised?


Because he's a no good lying politician like the rest. The thread is not about Obama it's about laws being passed to help get US citizens and legal immigrants into jobs that have been usurped by illegals. My point being that there are powerful people who would rather not see this happen based on the larger profit they stand to earn from hiring illegals.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by CobraCommander
Illegals have exacerbated our economic woes AND provided cover to the "real culprits" that you speak of.

Short of that, I have PERSONALLY lost jobs to illegals, have been the victim of a knife assault by an illegal on one job site, have seen people that I know be murdered by illegals, and have seen first hand the blight they visited upon my city that is worse than the crack epidemic was.

I have no problem with immigrants coming to America to seek opportunity. But that flow must be managed. To say nothing of how unfair it is to people that HAVE taken the path to citizenship. Most Latino illegals that I know have no intention of staying here, and send most of their money south across the border.

And of course, all of that must be framed in the fact that 70% of illegals are on welfare, So saying that most of them are good hard working people that are only here to do jobs American's won't do is a complete myth.

There is nothing wrong with immigration, this nation is founded on that spirit and multiculturalism. Where the problem comes in is that we have been overrun thanks to a lack of effective immigration policy and enforcement to keep illegals out.

Gone are the days of the simple young Mexican man seeking a better education, a better opportunity for his family, while he hires on as a ranch-hand. Today, they come to raid the welfare coffers, rape and murder women, and push meth at gunpoint.


I don't think you understand how things really work. Sure the illegals are affecting your economy but it's great for the businesses using them as cheap labor.

The economy is doing fine. They just have to say it isn't to explain why you are going through tough times because they don't want the wealth to trickle down.

That 70% on government aid probably includes children of illegals which are citizens and although you can argue that they shouldn't be there in the first place they are as american as anyone else until the Supreme Court states otherwise.

You can only blame the policy makers for letting them run amok. They fail to enact the laws and when they do they fail to enforce them. They must have a reason or many. In the end they are the ones who are primarily to blame.
edit on 5-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


And the policy makers are changing that in Alabama. Go 'Bama go!



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by DavinciThales
I always found it bizarre that Americans believe that poor people in Mexico have access to books and electronic media that tells them they are committing a crime. Most of these people are clueless. It is only when they come into the country and start working that they find out. Then they hide in fear.

However, we need immigration laws because we need to be realistic.

This is what being illegal implies: Not paying taxes and using the system resources. For fear of being caught, they are paid "under the table" and do not go through the IRS or local government. Thus, the systems that they used are drained dry.

Why do you think that towns filled with mostly illegal immigrants with "anchor babies" have horrendous public parks, hospitals, and schools? There is no tax income. As a whole, they do not pay back into the system.

The relationship between the individual and the state, should be a balance of give and take.

Illegal immigration breaks this relationship as they take more than what they give. Becoming legalized means that they are taught how to be a citizen and pay back into the system.

I am in support of a legalization program that taxes crime-free illegal immigrants more than the general population until they go through all the steps in becoming a legal citizen. If they do not want to go through this process and work hard, then they are deported.




Gang-bangers and meth freaks are not interested in learning how to pay taxes. In fact, most of the genuinely hard working latino immigrants I know are not interested. They send their money back to Mexico and points south and have no intention of ever becoming citizens.

As far as your weak argument that Mexicans don't know it's illegal until after they have crossed the border, well, I really hope you were joking.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
Highly motivated workers? Like the 70% of illegals that are on welfare?


This is from the article you linked to:



with illegal immigrants generally receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children, according to the study


Way to skew the truth. Since when is it bad to help out fellow americans.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
And the policy makers are changing that in Alabama. Go 'Bama go!


Yeah but there are policy makers above those that may keep them from actually making those changes whether in law or in enforcement.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Yep you are absolutely right. They know they can get caught while crossing, in fact many of them do get caught and then just cross again later. Some of them are sent home repeatedly. They know it's wrong or they wouldn't be hiding in the back of trucks and inside the car seats as they cross.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by daskakik
 


The economy is doing great? Are you serious?

What is unemployment at?
What is the price of fuel?
What is the state of housing?


Yeah but all those numbers show the serfs getting the shaft not that wealth isn't being created and going into the off shore accounts of the wealthy instead of trickling down like some say it works.


So? More mouths to feed isn't going to solve that problem.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by querious
reply to post by daskakik
 


I think the point is, when times were good and everybody was doing good and everyone had a job that wanted one, we could afford to be lax in the immigration, because there were low end jobs that weren't being filled by citizens.

An understanding, and early on it worked well for everyone, the illegals that were here were grateful and respectful.

But now that money is tight and everyone is tightening their belt, we can't afford to be that generous anymore, we have to close that hole to save our own citizens.

Unfortunate side effect, that we didn't expect, was the legions of anchor babies, and the complete and utter disrespect of our country and our culture. So now we have this 5th column of legal 'citizens' that have zero loyalty to the USA, and absolute loyalty to the illegal immigration agenda.


edit on 5-6-2011 by querious because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-6-2011 by querious because: (no reason given)


Bingo. Big star for that one.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by macman
Nice to avoid the question.

So, your retort is basically "well, yeah but that's different".
Those are the famous, most touted words of every Liberal I have ever known.


Not avoiding the questions. Just pointing out that although the economy is said to be bad there are many living a life of luxury. I refuse to fall for the doublespeak.


edit on 5-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


The same corruption and cronyism that has created greater income disparity is the same corruption and cronyism which has allowed illegal immigration to flourish.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by CobraCommander
Highly motivated workers? Like the 70% of illegals that are on welfare?


This is from the article you linked to:



with illegal immigrants generally receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children, according to the study


Way to skew the truth. Since when is it bad to help out fellow americans.


5th column are not fellow Americans as far as I'm concerned. And Congress needs to enact legislation to stop the anchor-baby boom.

EDIT to add: Many illegals also falsify records to claim benefits for children that do not exist.
edit on 5-6-2011 by CobraCommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
5th column are not fellow Americans as far as I'm concerned. And Congress needs to enact legislation to stop the anchor-baby boom.


Well your opinion does not matter. The Supreme Court has the last say and until Congress makes those changes things are what they are.


The same corruption and cronyism that has created greater income disparity is the same corruption and cronyism which has allowed illegal immigration to flourish.


That is exactly what I have been saying all along. The illegals and the citizens out of work are the result of corruption and cronyism helping to move the nations wealth upwards.


edit on 5-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by haarvik


About freaking time! DC needs to pay attention and follow suit! Violates the Constitution my ass, they are not legal residents if this country, therefore they are not covered by it. International law should prevail! People need to start picketing these pro illegal immigrant organizations. Which part of illegal don;t you get? Deport them ALL!

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


I hope you realize that quite a few farms have been shut down in the US because they have no one to pick the crops. They have started moving their operations to Mexico. That is part of the rising food costs that directly effect you. Why is my office building so dirty? Because the cleaning staff have been deported. Hey there's a used condom in the bed of my hotel room. Sorry we don't have the staff to clean suites as often as we use to. Americans don't want to do this job.

I understand where you are coming from, but the illegals do the work average Americans think they are above doing. They also keep the cost of things down. What is needed is immigration reform. There needs to be an easy way for people to come from Mexico to work the seasonal jobs. Many travel back and forth from Mexico every year to pick the crops that would not be picked and left to rot on the vine.

I don't think people realize just how important the illegals are to the US economy. What is needed is a way for them to do this legally.

I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, which is at the tail end of one of the largest building booms in North America. It got to the point that the building contractors were paying to fly people from all over the world. Nigeria, Russia, England, US, China.... They paid for the workers accommodations, flights, as well as 30-40 dollars an hour. These expenses greatly increased the cost of the construction projects. You are lucky in the southern states that cheep illegal labour can be so easily found.

edit on 5-6-2011 by Chindogu because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-6-2011 by Chindogu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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I'm pretty sure that a lot of members that post here on ATS also are members of the Stormfront message board.

I can't believe people here are so blind that they are willing to accept and praise laws that will discriminate against another group of people.

This law will no question, set up people to be discriminated against solely based on the color of their skin.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by muse7
I'm pretty sure that a lot of members that post here on ATS also are members of the Stormfront message board.

That was a bit uncalled for.



I can't believe people here are so blind that they are willing to accept and praise laws that will discriminate against another group of people.

This law will no question, set up people to be discriminated against solely based on the color of their skin.


An unfortunate consequence to the mess we are in, if there was an aggressive stance by hispanic organizations to stop illegal immigration, the general attitude would be a lot different.

But, in fact, it's the opposite every hispanic organization I see in the public eye is extremely pro illegal immigration, if they would police themselves and encourage their families and friends to follow legal avenues of entry, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.

It probably will result in what you say, but I don't see a way around it at this point.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by muse7
I'm pretty sure that a lot of members that post here on ATS also are members of the Stormfront message board.


Will ya give it a rest already? I haven't seen any members in this thread pronounce any racial superiority, or attack illegal immigrants based on their race. Illegal immigrants come in all colors, and these laws would apply to illegal immigrants of all colors. All members here have made it clear, that we welcome with open arms immigrants who come register, and choose to become Americans, regardless of their skin color. That doesn't stop people like you from lashing out, claiming racism where there is none. But it's like talking a skunk out of spraying you when their back is against the wall. That's the only defense you have when your argument is a losing one, emotional declarations of racism...and pulling the ATS is like Stormfront BS that has gotten so tired. ATS is not some Borg collective, you're a member here aren't you?



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Chindogu

Originally posted by haarvik


About freaking time! DC needs to pay attention and follow suit! Violates the Constitution my ass, they are not legal residents if this country, therefore they are not covered by it. International law should prevail! People need to start picketing these pro illegal immigrant organizations. Which part of illegal don;t you get? Deport them ALL!

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


I hope you realize that quite a few farms have been shut down in the US because they have no one to pick the crops. They have started moving their operations to Mexico. That is part of the rising food costs that directly effect you. Why is my office building so dirty? Because the cleaning staff have been deported. Hey there's a used condom in the bed of my hotel room. Sorry we don't have the staff to clean suites as often as we use to. Americans don't want to do this job.


I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, which is at the tail end of one of the largest building booms in North America. It got to the point that the building contractors were paying to fly people from all over the world. Nigeria, Russia, England, US, China.... They paid for the workers accommodations, flights, as well as 30-40 dollars an hour. These expenses greatly increased the cost of the construction projects. You are lucky in the southern states that cheep illegal labour can be so easily found.

edit on 5-6-2011 by Chindogu because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-6-2011 by Chindogu because: (no reason given)


Interesting I wonder who did all these jobs when their were not millions of illegals to do them?



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by Chindogu

Originally posted by haarvik


About freaking time! DC needs to pay attention and follow suit! Violates the Constitution my ass, they are not legal residents if this country, therefore they are not covered by it. International law should prevail! People need to start picketing these pro illegal immigrant organizations. Which part of illegal don;t you get? Deport them ALL!

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


I hope you realize that quite a few farms have been shut down in the US because they have no one to pick the crops. They have started moving their operations to Mexico. That is part of the rising food costs that directly effect you. Why is my office building so dirty? Because the cleaning staff have been deported. Hey there's a used condom in the bed of my hotel room. Sorry we don't have the staff to clean suites as often as we use to. Americans don't want to do this job.


I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, which is at the tail end of one of the largest building booms in North America. It got to the point that the building contractors were paying to fly people from all over the world. Nigeria, Russia, England, US, China.... They paid for the workers accommodations, flights, as well as 30-40 dollars an hour. These expenses greatly increased the cost of the construction projects. You are lucky in the southern states that cheep illegal labour can be so easily found.

edit on 5-6-2011 by Chindogu because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-6-2011 by Chindogu because: (no reason given)


Interesting I wonder who did all these jobs when their were not millions of illegals to do them?


Immigrants....

It was easier back then to come in and do seasonal jobs, most of them went back to Mexico and returned once it was time to pick crops again.



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