In Alabama, a Harsh Bill for Residents Here Illegally

reply to post by macman


there are almost no white illegal immigrants. So it is a race issue. It is also (more importantly) a legal issue. America doesnt have a high enough birth rate to grow us out of our problems the only solution is an influx of highly motivated workers. They need to be documented & background checked.

BTW the apparatus that would be required to "round em up" would be an Orwellian nightmare especially in our PC society example: TSA grouping the elderly & children so as not to offend CAIR

Originally posted by stevooo
reply to post by macman

 

there are almost no white illegal immigrants. So it is a race issue. It is also (more importantly) a legal issue. America doesnt have a high enough birth rate to grow us out of our problems the only solution is an influx of highly motivated workers. They need to be documented & background checked.

BTW the apparatus that would be required to "round em up" would be an Orwellian nightmare especially in our PC society example: TSA grouping the elderly & children so as not to offend CAIR

Sorry but just because those here illegally are not of the Caucasian persuasion does not make it a Race issue.
It makes it a border enforcement and Illegal immigration issue. Nice try though.

reply to post by macman


Ask "La Raza" if its a racial issue. look up what ATZLAN is. you can stick your head in the sand and say its not racial but it is. Realistically mass deportation is a legal & constitutional nightmare. the only solution is to end social welfare and give illegals a path to citizenship.

Originally posted by stevooo
there are almost no white illegal immigrants. So it is a race issue.

BS, BS, BS, BS, BS. Oh yeah, BS.

www.fairus.org...

There are millions of illegal immigrants from Europe/eastern Europe, Russia, etc. in the U.S. Anybody who tries to paint those who want OUR tax money to benefit OUR families as racist, needs to be ignored. Let them continue to waste their breath, while the grown folks do what needs to be done to TRY and get this country back on track. We need to attack the problem from all ends. The illegals themselves, the corporations that hire them, and the politicians that play the double game. THEY ARE ALL SCREWING US!

reply to post by 27jd


even if its not racial to you it is to them. Many of them consider SW USA their native land. all im saying is bring them into the fold of liberty, get them on the tax rolls, and dont give them a free ride.

And so it begins on the new laws to crack down on illegal immigration. This problem is not new a new problem but it is a problem non the less. It goes back, and started before many of us were even born. The federal government and the state governments have known about this all along. They know where the illegal immigrants are coming from, how they are getting into the country and why it is seems like a loosing battle. This is a multilevel problem that will need to be either solved or it will continue to get worse.
The problem has grown to the point where there are far too many variations and exceptions to be one simple solution that is not only fair, but just under the ideas of the law and the country. At one time, it might have been feasible to deport all illegal immigrants, but their numbers have grown to the point where that is no longer the case. The country can not just sit idly by and let it continue, nor can the country fail to be the beacon of freedom to the world by simply shutting its doors and denying any from entering. Both parts are foolish. The main problems is that people are breaking the law and the government is picking and choosing the laws that they are wanting and willing to enforce. This is what is at the heart and crux of the matter and issue. Illegal immigrants, no matter why they come are ultimately breaking the law by coming into the country uninvited and unannounced. They think that they will get a better life here, and what the real shame of it all is that by doing such, illegally they open themselves up to be the victims of crimes that will not be reported, or out of desperation could turn to a life of crime, adding fuel to the fire and furthering turning the general population against them. The ultimate victims in this dance that is going on are the citizens of the country. They cry out for a solution only to be ignored by the very people they put into office. Oh the government will enact bills and laws, yet nothing ever gets done. While some would see that the first defeat of the AZ law had no success, it did however bring to light one thing, that there are cities out there that are breaking federal law and that they should not by being sanctuary cities. The country is divided into 2 camps on this one and it will be years before a solution that would bring both together. For myself , here is what I believe: I am in favor of immigration, as long as it is done the right way. Show me an immigrant who jumped through the hoops to come to this country and I will welcome him with open arms, and help him out to the best of my ability. This country was founded on that principle and they deserve all the help they can get. However if it is an illegal immigrant, show them the barrel of a gun, fire one warning shot and then shot to kill.

Originally posted by stevooo
reply to post by 27jd

 

even if its not racial to you it is to them. Many of them consider SW USA their native land. all im saying is bring them into the fold of liberty, get them on the tax rolls, and dont give them a free ride.

I love it.


Ok, come take it back then!!!

Sorry, but again the only fall back of the argument is "Its racist not to allow Illegals to come in and/or stay".

SO on the flip side, Its racist for Mexico not to allow a white person, who is not a Mexican citizen to purchase and own land in Mexico.

Is that really all you have??


Also, I really don't care what the opinions are of an Illegal. Their opinion really has no standing in US Law.

reply to post by JosephMatthew

The question at hand here is a simple one.

Are we a nation of laws, or are we not?

If we are, then, by definition, these individuals have broken our laws. There is a legal method to achieve citizenship in the United States that thousands of people use every year. As long as that is the case, then those who come across the border with deliberation and intent to integrate themselves into our society that bypass the aforementioned legal method of becoming a citizen willfully break the laws of that land that they seek to become a part of.

If we are not a nation of laws, then our society collapses because the only thing on earth that protects the interests of the weak from the might of the strong is the enforcement of laws by an entity empowered to do so by a social contract with the population. If there were no laws, it would indeed be every man for himself. Civilization arose to mitigate the damage caused by that scenario. The interests of civilized, rational men do not clash.

I suggest that you investigate the evolution of the world as it has become by a thorough study of history and philosophy, before you begin to demand a half-baked pop-culture "evolution" of humanity that will only lead to it's destruction.

Originally posted by stevooo
even if its not racial to you it is to them. Many of them consider SW USA their native land.

Yeah, I know about 'La Raza' and all those fools. They're not truly motivated by their race or culture IMO, it just makes for good tattoos to put on their faces while they act like bad @sses in prison where they spend most of their lives (on our dollar). Everything is divided by race in there, so they have to pretend to even have one. Surely they must know their entire race is a result of the white Spaniards invading South America and subjugating the native tribes. And before the Spaniards arrived, the tribes didn't all live in peace and harmony. Native tribes did HORRIBLE things to one another and conquered and took over land of other tribes, the white man didn't bring violence to this continent, we were just a little better at it. All was fair before the white man came, so in my opinion those who hate us for being better at the game they played before we got here are sore losers, and also the true racists.

all im saying is bring them into the fold of liberty, get them on the tax rolls, and dont give them a free ride.

I agree. For those who truly want to come here to work (who aren't violent criminals), there should be a guest worker program for seasonal type work that is fair and gives them all equal opportunity to come here and work on some sort of rotation system in which a fair amount of taxes are paid by either the worker, or the employer utilizing them.

"La Raza" lol let them come to the SE states and try to take it. A lot of good ole boys with toys here who are getting tired of shooting deer and wouldn't mind some new game. Most southerners are armed to the teeth it would be a blood bath.

Alabama way to go. Im so sick of you open border supporters who are hypocrites. No other country im aware of has open borders yet you expect the USA to? Get real.

Look at all the other country's with millions of people who are worse off then the Mexico populace. Do we send ships over to pick them up and bring them here? After all fair is fair what makes Mexican citizens so special? Are they better than some poor child in Ethiopia?

So how many people do you want us to bring into the USA open border advocates ? 10 million? 500 million? Every third world country citizen? THE SOLUTION IS NOT BRINGING PEOPLE OVER HERE ITS HELPING THEM FIX THEIR OWN COUNTRY'S!

Their are laws and proper ways to become a US citizen those who did it the lawful way are more than welcome here, its also not fair to them who came the right way when Jose sneaks over.

Its not a race issue its a law issue. Those that turn it into a race issue have no argument. Its common place when someone in this country can not support their argument they throw in the old mighty race card. Well sorry folks the race card has ran dry and long past its credit limit.

Originally posted by JosephMatthew
We are ONE planet; why don't you do your part to evolve our species?

I totally agree with this ideal. Logically thinking, it doesn't make sense that any human being should be viewed as an alien or outsider on this planet. You bring up evolution. Evolution takes millions of years. As a species, we've evolved to cooperate in set groups, or tribes. Most of the creatures on this planet have. You had to work with your tribe to fight for resources and to ensure your family survived, and didn't fall victim to other tribes. It works that way with other primates, with ant colonies, etc. This isn't a human concept, this IS how our planet has always worked.

It's only been in the past hundred years in which our technology has bridged us to a point where we are all starting to connect on a global basis. Before that, people were afraid of other people they never came into contact with, for good reason. Usually other people came to kill you and take your resources. It's alot to ask of a species to overcome millions of years of evolution, in a hundred years, isn't it? This country, the U.S.A., is the "melting pot" in which pretty much all cultures ARE living together. This country may be the start of the phase of our evolution in which we learn tolerance of each other and how to cooperate on a global scale using our technology to obtain resources far away from this planet. But, immigration into the melting pot has to be a controlled flow, or the entire thing is gonna collapse, bringing more war, death, hatred...and will set our evolution back if that's truly where we're headed....

They need this bill in every state. And screw that "We are one planet" hippie BS.

We could always return the favor and give back some love.

Invade Mexico, take out the crooked police and government officials, and the drug gangs while we are at it. Endow the good people with constitutional rights, including gun ownership, start businesses and unions, enforce labor laws and other regulations that will bring up wages and standards of living, and everything will be peachy king.

Then Mexicans won't have to cross the border to get good jobs in the U.S..

reply to post by poet1b


Now that is just racists!!!


Who do yo think is in charge, Bush? Halliburton?

You evil, savage caveman you!!!!!


Sarcasm is lost on the internet

Double Post

Originally posted by CobraCommander
Illegals have exacerbated our economic woes AND provided cover to the "real culprits" that you speak of.

Short of that, I have PERSONALLY lost jobs to illegals, have been the victim of a knife assault by an illegal on one job site, have seen people that I know be murdered by illegals, and have seen first hand the blight they visited upon my city that is worse than the crack epidemic was.

I have no problem with immigrants coming to America to seek opportunity. But that flow must be managed. To say nothing of how unfair it is to people that HAVE taken the path to citizenship. Most Latino illegals that I know have no intention of staying here, and send most of their money south across the border.

And of course, all of that must be framed in the fact that 70% of illegals are on welfare, So saying that most of them are good hard working people that are only here to do jobs American's won't do is a complete myth.

There is nothing wrong with immigration, this nation is founded on that spirit and multiculturalism. Where the problem comes in is that we have been overrun thanks to a lack of effective immigration policy and enforcement to keep illegals out.

Gone are the days of the simple young Mexican man seeking a better education, a better opportunity for his family, while he hires on as a ranch-hand. Today, they come to raid the welfare coffers, rape and murder women, and push meth at gunpoint.

I don't think you understand how things really work. Sure the illegals are affecting your economy but it's great for the businesses using them as cheap labor.

The economy is doing fine. They just have to say it isn't to explain why you are going through tough times because they don't want the wealth to trickle down.

That 70% on government aid probably includes children of illegals which are citizens and although you can argue that they shouldn't be there in the first place they are as american as anyone else until the Supreme Court states otherwise.

You can only blame the policy makers for letting them run amok. They fail to enact the laws and when they do they fail to enforce them. They must have a reason or many. In the end they are the ones who are primarily to blame.

I always found it bizarre that Americans believe that poor people in Mexico have access to books and electronic media that tells them they are committing a crime. Most of these people are clueless. It is only when they come into the country and start working that they find out. Then they hide in fear.

However, we need immigration laws because we need to be realistic.

This is what being illegal implies: Not paying taxes and using the system resources. For fear of being caught, they are paid "under the table" and do not go through the IRS or local government. Thus, the systems that they used are drained dry.

Why do you think that towns filled with mostly illegal immigrants with "anchor babies" have horrendous public parks, hospitals, and schools? There is no tax income. As a whole, they do not pay back into the system.

The relationship between the individual and the state, should be a balance of give and take.

Illegal immigration breaks this relationship as they take more than what they give. Becoming legalized means that they are taught how to be a citizen and pay back into the system.

I am in support of a legalization program that taxes crime-free illegal immigrants more than the general population until they go through all the steps in becoming a legal citizen. If they do not want to go through this process and work hard, then they are deported.

Originally posted by poet1b

We could always return the favor and give back some love.

Invade Mexico, take out the crooked police and government officials, and the drug gangs while we are at it. Endow the good people with constitutional rights, including gun ownership, start businesses and unions, enforce labor laws and other regulations that will bring up wages and standards of living, and everything will be peachy king.

Then Mexicans won't have to cross the border to get good jobs in the U.S..

A conspiracy nut might say that that's the point of letting things get to where they have, to make it easier to sell the idea of forming a NAU to insure a safer more prosperous North America for all.

Originally posted by DavinciThales
I always found it bizarre that Americans believe that poor people in Mexico have access to books and electronic media that tells them they are committing a crime. Most of these people are clueless. It is only when they come into the country and start working that they find out. Then they hide in fear..

really? Is that why they pay Coyotes and Gangs to smuggle them across the border in hidden areas of vehicles, or cross paths in a barren desert, or agree to smuggle drugs from Mexico to the US for payment??

Originally posted by DavinciThales
I always found it bizarre that Americans believe that poor people in Mexico have access to books and electronic media that tells them they are committing a crime. Most of these people are clueless. It is only when they come into the country and start working that they find out. Then they hide in fear.

Come on now, they may not read many books or electronic media, but word of mouth is also a pretty effective communication tool. They know full well they're breaking the law, I'm sure they're not too stupid to realize that hightailing it over or under fences and through the desert laying low isn't the customary way to enter this country. To suggest that kinda implies they're not human, and dumb as cattle which isn't true.