In Alabama, a Harsh Bill for Residents Here Illegally

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
threads like this are an embarrassment to the ATS community. The unabashed (and yet unwilling to admit to) racism and xenophobia is pathetic.

No, what's pathetic is you trying to throw poo against the wall because people don't agree with you, hoping it will stick. I haven't seen any racism, or even any xenophobia in this thread. Just about every poster who is against illegal immigration has made it clear they welcome legal immigrants who desire to become part of our society and contribute the same as everybody else. They make it clear, hoping to head these asinine racism and xenophobia accusations off. But, those false accusations are really all you have to fall back on in this debate, so you will make them regardless.

reply to post by TKDRL

You will see why allowing illegal immigrants lower the standard living wage is damaging.

Well, I might be young and kinda dumb, but I'm not that dumb. Rounding them up and shipping them back to Mexico is a horrible idea, they would just come back and then we're back at square one.

You guys keep harping on illegals but, illegal immigration wasn't a big problem in the 50's was it? (I might be wrong) It became a problem under Reagan and his, protectionist free trade polices and it just exploded under Clinton because of NAFTA crippling their market.

Protectionism simply, doesn't work it leads to nothing, but war and poverty. But for some reason you guys advocate for more protectionism. It is precisely protectionism which is driving up the costs of goods, and pushing the industries out of the country.

If Mexicans make skinny jeans that provide the best value for the price, let them make them. Americans need to focus on making the things here that we can do best. Let foreigners do what they do best, but the government needs to get out of our way and let us invest to produce the things that consumers here and abroad want to buy.

This immigration ``problem`` wouldn't be a problem if we allowed ``free trade`` with Mexico. I don't see extra workers from Mexico as a problem, because an increase in the supply of labor will lower prices and ``maybe`` wages, but society as a whole would be better off.

The problem comes from overcrowding and immigrants putting pressure on ``state-provided`` services, if Mexicans can't realistically sell U.S consumers anything because our government just won't allow it and the U.S can't sell to Mexico because many Mexicans can't afford it. Living in Mexico becomes pointless, unless you're lucky enough to get a job at a tourist spot or a company that has permission to ship its goods to the States. So it's pretty obvious and understandable as to why so many people want to jump ship to the U.S.

These are some costs to the American taxpayers for illegal aliens.
- The main point while they are using these services, they are not paying taxes to support them.
- Much of the 'extra' money they do make they send/save for when they go back to Mexico.

When you add the cost of using public services and their illegal usage of aid systems; are we really benefiting from their so called 'cheap labor'?

The people (corps) who benefit are very thin, and even so, if they were to use legal workers, most of the cost would be past on and spread out, in the end we would pay a little more for product but the over all impact cost would go down greatly.

Some numbers to put into perspective. link

$113 Billion - This year's cost of US illegal immigration. Approximately 75% of that cost is absorbed by the states.

$1117 - The average amount you and your family paid in taxes this year to support illegals.

$52 Billion - The cost of educating the children of illegals. This is by far the single largest cost to the American taxpayer.

$2,700 - The average dollar amount a single illegal household costs the US federal government.

51% - The percentage of Mexican immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. 28% use more than one.

1.4 Million - The number of illegal immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. (food stamps, WIC, school lunch, Medicaid, TANF, SSI, and public/rent-subsidized housing)

Illegal-population map: (you can see the states that are passing immigration laws)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6269e2383ba9.gif[/atsimg]


Federal-Costs for illegal aliens:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2b5d4f31a7a4.jpeg[/atsimg]


"Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from illegal immigration, at a cost of nearly $68,000,000,000.00 annually.”


Educational by State for Illegal Aliens:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/50679b4a9ba0.jpeg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


Young, sure, I never called you dumb though. Lack of experience is not stupidity.

If we allow illegals to do what they do best, which seems to be breaking our laws, then we might as well just get rid of all the laws. Anyone could mow a lawn, nobody but someone living 30 to a house can work for 50 bucks a day. Americans need to pay a normal rent, food, gas or some kind of transportation. The only way to compete with their slave wages is to start living like they do, lowering our standard of living to mexican and south american ghetto standards. Why should we do that, to accomodate illegals? It makes zero common sense.

If it were up to me, businesses and slumlords would get hit hard. No papers, then no work, no housing, they either become a citizen, and start following the rules the rest of us working men do, or they go home. That isn't what is happening now, so it is up to states to do it I guess.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
threads like this are an embarrassment to the ATS community. The unabashed (and yet unwilling to admit to) racism and xenophobia is pathetic.

No, what's pathetic is you trying to throw poo against the wall because people don't agree with you, hoping it will stick. I haven't seen any racism, or even any xenophobia in this thread. Just about every poster who is against illegal immigration has made it clear they welcome legal immigrants who desire to become part of our society and contribute the same as everybody else. They make it clear, hoping to head these asinine racism and xenophobia accusations off. But, those false accusations are really all you have to fall back on in this debate, so you will make them regardless.

Excellent reply! This has been an open and deep discussion on the matter of illegal immigration which has nothing to do with being racist.Illegal is not a race. It seems when someone gets flustered, their only defense is to call names and assume.

reply to post by querious


100,000-200,000 illegal immigrants in Rhode island alone. Rhode island is the smallest State in the entire USA! That is an overwhelming number of illegals!

reply to post by TKDRL

Why should we do that, to accomodate illegals?

I guess you didn't get my point.

My point was: Many illegals flock here because of our protectionist free trade polices. Mexicans use to farm, but then the U.S decided that we needed to ``protect`` our farmers and that abolished their farming industry. If we stopped trying to protect our workers from non-existent threats many illegals would have no reason to come here.

We can deport them all we want, but as long as protectionism/fascism exist here, they'll just keep coming back.

reply to post by daskakik


Once again, our agents trying to stop the flow of weapons across the border is a DOMESTIC policy, not a law. Mexico can no more blame us for guns coming across the border, than we can blame the Mexican government for allowing drugs to cross into the U.S. And yes, Mexican officials not only turn a blind eye to drug smuggling, but are often complicit directly providing resources to smugglers or even smuggling the drugs themselves.

reply to post by haarvik


Finally someone doing something about this.

reply to post by querious

When you add the cost of using public services and their illegal usage of aid systems; are we really benefiting from their so called 'cheap labor'?

You really don't get it do you?

There are different groups. One benefits while the other one loses. The lawmakers who are in cahoots with the multinationals win, you lose. They don't care how much tax dollars it will soak up, because, it's not going to hit their pockets! So it will ALWAYS remain beneficial to lose money, if you are the one who gets paid to lose other peoples money.

Originally posted by JosephMatthew
reply to post by macman

 

It's not about guilt, it's about responsibility to your fellow human beings. Look around you... More division (the heart of the immigration issue and many other social issues) is killing our ability to survive on this planet. The writing is on the wall it has become so evident.

I can tell you're the type of person who cannot imagine a life without police, without laws, without money, without being told what to do, without war. That is due to your values and the lies you were raised on (like "there isn't enough for everyone" & "borders are necessary"). You believe all of this nonsense because of fear...

Simply, you're afraid of a world where you don't have someone to hate.

I thought ATS members were smarter than this...

If we want to solve illegal immigration, we need to look at the core issues (see my post above); NOT perpetuate outdated notions of society where division & differential advantage go hand-in-hand with crime, poverty, war.

The fear mongers don't decide how life is; we've let such proponents run amok for too long.

Simply, the type of thinking you are pushing is holding our species back from evolving. Please stop.

edit on 4-6-2011 by JosephMatthew because: clarity

Crawl back under the communist rock you crawled out from under. You may want to "share" what you have, but I worked damn hard for what I have, and I want my children to be able to do the same! You reek of pure obamanism!

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Tell you what, paleface. Get a boat and start rowing. Don't worry, I'll toss you your luggage.

Europe's thattaway.

Tell you what d**kface, I am a cherokee..I AM a REAL natural born citizen, and I HAVE THE RIGHT to complain about this! You don't like it, then you can take your european ass back where it came from!

reply to post by haarvik


Rights? What rights?

God given rights? Government given rights? Your own personal delusional rights?

Get real.

Whats sad is that these are state enacted bills, both Ala & Az. What has our illustrious federal govt done...
suspended most of the Az law (Quote from the Times article). Here we are going back to states rights...apparently we dont have any. My county in East Tennessee has 10.7% hispanic population...the state as a whole has 4.6% Population. Let the states take care of its own issues...why is that so hard to understand?

reply to post by cubsfan


Do you understand how percentages work?

reply to post by Zamini


This is quite simple to cure, nationally. Everyone on this board can agree that $ is what motivates, correct? Then all you have to do is refuse to spend your $ with any group, business or organization that supports, assists, employs or in any way contributes to fostering illegal aliens in this country. If you take away their $ they will listen.

Start by writing, emailing and calling the groups/businesses and tell them you will no longer purchase their product/service as long as they continue to support the illegal alien population in this country. If you go into a business and suspect their employees are illegal, just see if they can speak english. It is a good bet if they can't understand you, they are illegal. If you suspect/confirm this, notify the manager/owner of this said place and put them on notice that you will be taking your business elsewhere until such time as they employ 100% LEGAL citizens. They will get the point in short order! I do this now. I don't buy Tyson, Smithfield and others. I have started boycotting McD's, Wendy's and other FF chains since they support illegals. I try to buy from local businesses/farmers markets that I KNOW only use US Citizens.

Do your part, regardless of what these pansies and NWO, one world fascists say. It is up to YOU to take back your country. It is up to you to lead by example. Make the commitment to do your part. Any movement starts with one. let's get the snowball rolling!

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by cubsfan

 

Do you understand how percentages work?

I do...thank you very much!! I also live in this community & know how many illegals are around.

reply to post by haarvik

This is quite simple to cure, nationally. Everyone on this board can agree that $ is what motivates, correct? Then all you have to do is refuse to spend your $ with any group, business or organization that supports, assists, employs or in any way contributes to fostering illegal aliens in this country. If you take away their $ they will listen.

Exactly. In that sense, the "legals" and "illegals" should join forces. Set an example for the world to see, so that people in China and India refuse to work for pennies, to remove the "competition angle" crooks like to take(which is a very valid angle, mind you).

United you stand, divided you fall.

The more I think about it the more I see that a worldwide revolution, with people from all over the globe understanding each other and their goals, is the only way people will be able to crawl out of these tribal mindsets.

reply to post by cubsfan

86.6% 77.6%

86.6% of your local area is white. 77.6% of your county is white.

That's 54.163 white people in your local area and 4.924.577 white people in your county.

10.7% 4.6%

10.7% of your locals are persons of Hispanic or from Latino descent.

4.6% of your county is Hispanic or from Latino descent.

That's 6692 Hispanic people in your local area and 290.540 Hispanic people in your county.

So in your local area you have 54.163 whites compared to 6692 Hispanics.

And your county has 4.924.677 whites compared to 290.540 Hispanics.

That means that ONLY 2.3% of the Hispanics in your county, live in your local area, compared to about 1.1% of total whites in your county living in your local area. Don't forget to relate these relative percentages to their absolute numbers.

That is the easy math to show you how paranoid you are in numbers.

However, allow me to inject my personal opinion now;

Seeing as how low the amount of people other than whites are in your county and especially in your local area, I'd wager that you just can't stand brown people.

Read this:

Center For Immigration Studies

I'm sick and tired of people always trumping the race card. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with color. It has to do with LEGAL! When these people fill out an I-9 with a fake SS#, they just committed a felony. If you or I did that we would be in jail in a heartbeat! When any rational argument baffles the leftist, the race card is always played.

Case in point was the Duke LaCrosse case. Boy wasn't Al Sharpton quick to picket them? When it came out she made it up, where was good 'ole Al apologizing? He didn't. Yet he was one of the first to play the race card. You people make me sick, and YOU are the reason that race relations never improve. You feed on it, you promote it. Without it you wouldn't know how to approach an argument! Get off the race train and use your intellect or just quit responding. Your ignorance shines through.