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Ancient Aliens Debunked?

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posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Resinveins
The real mystery to me is what the hell is up with giorgio's hair?


Good one :-).... I think it's a reference to Medusa's head..."...as ancient alien theorists believe" ;-)




posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


So here's the thing ... unless we (the people who post their beliefs and those who respond to those ideas) are all flat out experts in any one of a countless variety of fields of study - then all we are doing is offering our individual opinions. That being said, I offer the following:

Titen-Sxull obviously finds nothing presented in the TV series "Ancient Aliens" as even remotely plausible. Ok, that is his personal opinion. He is certainly entitled to it. While voicing his opinion however, he seldom relies on facts to either discredit information on Ancient Aliens, or to support his "theories." Two examples:

1) Consistent with his entire "debunking" technique, he offers absolutely no background information concerning the facts of the existence, origin or accuracy of the Piri Reis Map (drawn in the 16th century) - such as the fact that at the time the Piri Reis Map was made, the Antarctic region was covered in polar ice, and had been for literally thousands of years. Does this information prove the existence, let alone involvement, of Ancient Aliens?
No, of course it does not. But, it does raise some very interesting questions ... such as, what was the source of knowledge of the details of this extraordinary map? When was the Antarctic region originally mapped and by whom? And how was mapped, if it was under sheets of ice during the entire history of Modern Man? These are facts and questions that Titen-Sxull does not concern himself with.

2) Again, consistent with his standard "debunking" technique, he totally ignores (and therefore does not mention) the unusual facts surrounding the making of some of the monolithic stones at Puma-Punka. It seems as though Titen-Sxull is content to simply offer that "Aliens" had nothing to do with the apparent precise "machining" of those stones. No facts. No evidence. Just believe me, "Aliens had nothing to do with the Puma-Punka site.

In conclusion, Titen-Sxull is guilty of the using the exact same tactics that he accuses others of using to support their theories. It is one thing to have an opinion. It is quite another to take the time to back it up with facts, or at the very least offer alternate theories to explain what most experts can still only offer their best guess to explain.



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by JayCervone
2) Again, consistent with his standard "debunking" technique, he totally ignores (and therefore does not mention) the unusual facts surrounding the making of some of the monolithic stones at Puma-Punka. It seems as though Titen-Sxull is content to simply offer that "Aliens" had nothing to do with the apparent precise "machining" of those stones. No facts. No evidence. Just believe me, "Aliens had nothing to do with the Puma-Punka site.


Did I miss the part where it was conclusively proven that "aliens" where somehow responsible for carving the stones at Puma-Punka? From what I remember, there was some discussion about how nobody knows exactly how the unusual stones were fashioned so accurately, but I don't recall where it was definitively shown that aliens were responsible.

As far as I know, "we don't know how they did it" does not automatically equal "aliens did it." I guess you need really crazy hair to follow that logic.



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by nv4711

Originally posted by Resinveins
The real mystery to me is what the hell is up with giorgio's hair?

Good one :-).... I think it's a reference to Medusa's head..."...as ancient alien theorists believe" ;-)

He's not the only one with crazy hair on that show. Crazy hair seems to be pretty common among ancient alien proponents.


edit on 3-11-2011 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by JayCervone
So here's the thing ... unless we (the people who post their beliefs and those who respond to those ideas) are all flat out experts in any one of a countless variety of fields of study - then all we are doing is offering our individual opinions. That being said, I offer the following:

Titen-Sxull obviously finds nothing presented in the TV series "Ancient Aliens" as even remotely plausible. Ok, that is his personal opinion. He is certainly entitled to it. While voicing his opinion however, he seldom relies on facts to either discredit information on Ancient Aliens, or to support his "theories." Two examples:

1) Consistent with his entire "debunking" technique, he offers absolutely no background information concerning the facts of the existence, origin or accuracy of the Piri Reis Map (drawn in the 16th century) - such as the fact that at the time the Piri Reis Map was made, the Antarctic region was covered in polar ice, and had been for literally thousands of years. Does this information prove the existence, let alone involvement, of Ancient Aliens?
No, of course it does not. But, it does raise some very interesting questions ... such as, what was the source of knowledge of the details of this extraordinary map? When was the Antarctic region originally mapped and by whom? And how was mapped, if it was under sheets of ice during the entire history of Modern Man? These are facts and questions that Titen-Sxull does not concern himself with.

In fact, the map shows the coast of South America, not Antarctica. So, the poster doesn't bother "concerning himself" with a claim that is flatly false.
Here's what Antarctica looks like under the ice. Find that on the Piri Reis map and then we'll talk.


Originally posted by JayCervone
2) Again, consistent with his standard "debunking" technique, he totally ignores (and therefore does not mention) the unusual facts surrounding the making of some of the monolithic stones at Puma-Punka. It seems as though Titen-Sxull is content to simply offer that "Aliens" had nothing to do with the apparent precise "machining" of those stones. No facts. No evidence. Just believe me, "Aliens had nothing to do with the Puma-Punka site.

While it may be true that the precise methods for carving the stones at PumaPunku isn't completely known, it is known that the stones have hammerstone marks and chisel marks on them.

Spacefaring high tech cultures using hammer stones and chisels?

Are you aware that the vast majority of stone at Pumapunku is red sandstone?

Do you know that there is no Diorite at Pumapunku?

Do you realize that humans have been carving exquisite figures out of Diorite since before hieroglyphics were even developed by the Ancient Egyptians?


Originally posted by JayCervone
In conclusion, Titen-Sxull is guilty of the using the exact same tactics that he accuses others of using to support their theories. It is one thing to have an opinion. It is quite another to take the time to back it up with facts, or at the very least offer alternate theories to explain what most experts can still only offer their best guess to explain.


In conclusion, JayCervone has, for no reason whatsoever, decided that humans had to have aliens tell them how to carve and stack stone.

Facts concerning this ridiculous fantasy of "Ancient Aliens" are on display all over this board. The fact that several posters here either don't want to look at the facts (afraid to find out they've been had) or simply haven't the ambition to seek out answers to their grade-school questions concerning making marks on a piece of rock, and then try to claim that skeptics haven't presented the facts, THAT is the real travesty here. Not on the History Channel (there, the real travesty is this idiotic show,) but here at ATS.

Correction - there is a third possibility that would explain these stupid claims that skeptics don't provide their own evidence - maybe these fringers can't figure out the search function here.

Harte



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by JayCervone
 


JayCervone, you just signed up here, so just a hint: Harte is going to kick your behind...trust me...been there
But he pulled me back, just when I was to cross over to the dark side.. so that's a good thing.

Anyways, if you watch AA and listen closely, there is ZERO scientific argument or explanation presented, in fact, the AA hypothesis is "proven" by the show's hosts with i.e.:

Megalithic Structures (Pyramids, Tiahuanaco, Stonehenge...):

Host's "Explanation" (Coast to Coast Guy):
"We can't recreate this with our technology today, and you're telling me our ancestors built this with their hands?....I don't think so!" That's the whole argument presented!

Of course, complete BS.... it's like me saying "I can't paint the Mona Lisa with my computer and the best graphics software known to man...and you're telling me Leonardo painted that with his hands? I don't think so!"

But that's just the rethoric, the rest is either ignorance or calculated deception. Of course could we recreate the Great Pyramid, modern large cranes can lift 5,000 metric tons, so please..our tech can't do it..yeah, right. We built the Empire State Building, the Hoover Dam, carved the presidents into Mount Rushmore... Humans can pretty much do whatever they set their mind to..all just a matter of determination (and being Pharao, bossing everyone around helps too).

The point is there is no reason to do it, and more importantly not the required couple of billion $. That's it... no money, no reason...no pyramid.

Do I agree that not all explanations are satisfying and have a few holes? Absolutely, and so will most scientists (Scientists in general rather say "I don't know" than to wildly speculate).

Yes, we're not sure how, and why, our ancestors have done some of the things we marvel at. Allow me a quick excursion to an experience I had a few years ago:
I have a nice, turn of the 19th century cabinet. The doors have glass insets. I was moving and, of course, the movers broke one of the glass. This glass was cut by hand with an ornamental edge. Anyways, I went to 5 local glass cutters, they looked at it, shook their head and said "We can't do that".."Today, we don't have that skill anymore, especially not doing it by hand, we can machine cut it, but it won't look the same".
My point is, in a mere 80 years or so, we lost know how. Because technology made that skill obsolete and hand cutting glass is way to expensive. Did those glass cutters say "An Alien must have made it, because we don't know how to do it, not even with our machines"?...Nope, they didn't

Anyways, enjoy your time around here...but hold on to your...well, whatever you want to hold on to, because you're gonna hear some wild stories here... which will make AA look like a Nobel Prize documentation

edit on 3-11-2011 by nv4711 because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-11-2011 by nv4711 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by nv4711
 


That is a very well constructed post "nv4711" and I too have been very appreciative of 'harte' and his/her opinions from my experience when I first joined ATS many years ago to re-discovering them recently as his/her replies/opinions and explanations have been written in terms that a layman like me can understand.
With regard to the AA and the Pyramid enigma though, I have to ask questions which, unfortunately, are not only never thoroughly answered but are simply placed in the "Too Hard" filing cabinet under "Ancient Aliens".
To date, nobody has ever successfully explained the reason as to why the pyramids were built. I have been called a "pyramidiot" since my schooldays when I continued to ask questions in class (when the subject came up) only to be told that they were 'tombs of the Pharaohs' and that was that. What I and others ask are why would a nation of people who were so hieroglyphical (is that a word) with their lives leave us no clues whatsoever as to how and why they built them. Why take twenty years to build something that appears to serve no purpose as when completed it was totally sealed with facing stones, had slightly concave sides (or bevelled sides) with no entrance. Since we found a way in we have discovered nothing to enlighten us, in fact, what we found has only served to add to the enigma. Theories of secret passages and vents pointing to the stars seem a little odd if these were sealed in.
I like to keep an open mind on this and other unanswered questions relating to our past and continue to ask questions. What do the Sumerian Tablets really tell us? Did they really write the story of Genesis two thousand years before Moses did or are we victims of people like Zecharia Sitchin and his personal translations? Until reading your post I was always under the impression that the stones of Puma Punku were of solid diorite which could only be cut by diamond so I continue to get some answers to some of my questions. There are however many thousands of the Sumerian Tablets yet to be translated (Christian and Barbara Joy O'brien's work on these makes interesting reading) whilst new discoveries are made almost daily across the world of which some shed new light whilst others deepen the mystery.
Thank you once again for a great post (I must remember to give you a flag).
Edit: I did.

edit on 3-11-2011 by OzTiger because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by OzTiger
 


Thanks for your kind words, OzTiger..
I understand exactly what you're saying. Many explanations, or complete lack thereof, leave one dissatisfied and to question the, for lack of a better word, conventional wisdom. Add to that a certain amount of arrogance displayed by the Experts and one is easily swayed to look for answers elsewhere (even so I must say that the new generation of scientists has become much more approachable and so much better understands that their field of work is not a state funded hobby but for the people).
I think however that we have to be careful when we go and look elsewhere. You and I, we want to know "why" and "how" and the answers are indeed sparce. However, AA does not give me any answers either.... I haven't heard an explanation why the Pyramids were built (by Aliens) from AA. OK, other than "It's a power plant shooting up a laser to refuel the mothership"... Uh.. I think in that case I go with "It's just a giant tomb, built for an egomaniacal King"..

I guess what I'm trying to say is, AA and the "neighbouring" theories (to use the term lightly) are a little like a drug...they give you a short high and you think you understand now, but at the end it was just a bad trip and you still have no answers, but a bad hangover, or worse..

The great thing is, there is still so much to learn and to discover. Who knows what the French, British, Germans and everybody else who ransacked Egypt for its ancient treasures have stored in some forgotten corner of a Museum's basement. There are hundreds of thousands of artifacts in Museums, not on display, never really looked at, waiting to be rediscovered for a hundred years. Maybe one of these pieces will hold the key. Or perhaps just tomorrow, a new find like the Dead Sea Scrolls is made....

Will we ever know? Not sure, but you know what they say... it's about the journey, not the destination

I'm interested to hear if you have come to a conclusion or theory on the Pyramids. I'm sure I'll enjoy the dialogue.

Cheers



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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Attempts at debunking the AAT are done by three groups of people:

1. The deeply religious

They are not ready to add logic, history, and science into their religious dogma because it makes their 'gods' and 'angels' tangible, physical beings that are not magical and are not in control. This makes them know that there is no 'god' in the sky that has there best interest at heart, granting 'prayers'. It leaves them responsible for their own fates.

2. Hardcore atheists

They are not ready to pick the bible back up, plain and simple. They don't want to acknowledge hidden history among ancient civilizations that spoke about 'the ones that came from heaven', even though there was no way for these civilizations to be on the same accord with stories about the gods. In fact, they detest acknowledging any affirmation of a 'god' period. To them, we simply evolved from primates, untouched and without interference overnight 'somehow' over a long, long time.

3. Arrogant scientists

They are not ready to acknowledge ANY entity that surpasses their intelligence level. They do not want admit that they just may NOT be the 'know-all supreme beings' of the universe; in fact, they really don't like the mention of the word 'extraterrestrial' all that much as it is. Any notion that another race of beings, whether 'gods' or aliens knocks them out of their fantasized position as the highest and most advanced beings.


NEITHER group is ready to face the truth, which is the fact that there were indeed gods who visited Earth, but they were just a more advanced race of beings, sent out on a mission.

Too much evidence supports that our DNA was genetically manipulated (96% primate & 4% "missing link")

WE did not have the mathematical ability nor the advanced machinery to build pyramids in the era that they were built.

We are not the only forms of life, or intelligent life in the universe.

The Ancient Alien Theory is the most logical, most evidential , and most accurate theory to explain mankind's overnight emergence on planet Earth.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:42 AM
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Its highly unlikely to have a mass hallucination among several different civilizations, and all at the same time.

When I first left religion alone, I laughed at the notion of a god , angels, and the bible itself; it all seemed like a fairytale to me.

Later, I started to learn about the universe and its vastness and grew an interest in extraterrestrial life; not from movies, but from the fact that we are not the center of the universe and thus, there is nothing 'special about us'. We are special only to ourselves..

Then, when I heard of the Ancient Alien theory, I paused and critically looked at it. At that time I was a hardcore atheist and here we were mentioning 'gods' again.

But then,

I saw the parallel of the AAT and the bible. The bible couldn't be true, right? its just a fairy tale, right?

Switching out ancient words like 'gods/angels, chariots, virgin birth with modern words like 'aliens, spaceships, and technology is when it started....to make......sense.....

How in the world could ALL of these ancient civilizations, with oceans and deserts between them

DESCRIBE THE EXACT SAME STORY???????????

So.....

I concluded it must be something to this.....

God(s) - extraterrestrial (leadership/commander type of position
Lord - et with the highest position (notice how the bible differentiates 'God' from 'Lord God')
Angel- et with a specialty; crew memeber, not in leadership position
Chariot of Fire- flying vessel (Rocket, spaceship)
Virgin Birth - artificial insemination
Miracles -advanced technology

These are some things to truly consider before dismissing the AAT altogether.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie
How in the world could ALL of these ancient civilizations, with oceans and deserts between them

DESCRIBE THE EXACT SAME STORY???????????

There's a ridiculously simple answer to the above absolute claim. It goes like this:

"THEY DON'T."

Harte



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by Harte
 


I see that as wrong. All of these stories have a common basis of God's coming down from the sky. This could be a plagiarism of newer Religions but these similar stories have been told for as long as Religions have existed.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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The big problem with the 'stories' is that they have all been translated by different people who have different interpretations of words, phrases and expressions. The Sumerian Tablets are a prime example where people such as Zecharia Sitchin give interpretations that have been proven to be completely wrong by Michael S Heiser (an expert in the Hebrew, Aramaic and Sumerian languages) whereas Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien have yet another version of events.
I read recently where a new computer (or software) has been devised that can decipher hitherto untranslated historical evidence which may shed some light on our past.
There is much to be revealed yet I feel.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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On shows like this, I have heard the narrator contradict himself and then put a disinformation agent on stage. Some disinformation agents have a lot of truth to bare so it is hard to tell they are saying things for the purposes of disinfo. It's not right to me at all, because literally, the public believes the disinfo. It is more organized, more on the spotlight. But the darn narrator is suggesting any possibility, he will say the right thing, then the wrong thing...



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by Harte
 


I see that as wrong. All of these stories have a common basis of God's coming down from the sky. This could be a plagiarism of newer Religions but these similar stories have been told for as long as Religions have existed.


So you may claim.

What about god coming out of the ocean? What about all the animist religions?

Name one god that actually "came from the sky" originally. Not even Yaweh.

Some gods actually were the "sky." Literally. Some were literally the Sun.

The earliest "gods" that we know of that fit the sort of bill you're talking about were said to have come from mountaintops, not the sky.

Eventually, they were relocated. "Heaven" used to be a mountaintop.

Harte



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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debunked or not, it still makes more sence to me than any religion



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by Harte
 



Native American Tribes speak of being they now call Space Brothers who came down and actually made contact with her ancestors

The Sumerians claimed that they're Gods decended from the sky as well.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Zeer0
Native American Tribes speak of being they now call Space Brothers who came down and actually made contact with her ancestors

They saw stars, so they had star people. They saw ants, so they had ant people.

You believe in the ant people too?

The Star People weren't Native American gods.


Originally posted by Zeer0
The Sumerians claimed that they're Gods decended from the sky as well.


Actually, no.

The Gods of Sumer came from the top of a mountain, although their chief god, An, originated as the literal sky itself. Who lived on a mountaintop.

Harte



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie


WE did not have the mathematical ability nor the advanced machinery to build pyramids in the era that they were built.


Is that so... May I draw your attention to the Rind Papyrus, dating to 1650 BC
Wolfram Math World

It contains equations on Fractures and Geometry, concerning the calculation of the area of a circle, trapezoids etc. It shows how to calculate the volume of cylindrical and rectangular granaries, and..ta ta.. also show five mathematical problems concerning pyramids (and it's solutions), i.e. How to calculate the gradient ("seked") of a pyramid, with the result showing the gradient as the cotangent of the angle to the base of the pyramid and its face.

or check out the Moscow Mathematical Papyrus, dating to approx 1850 BC and is, as the text says, a copy of a much older papyrus
Moscow Math...

I think you owe our ancestors an apology, for calling them stupid....

On the Pyramids...

Did you know that the Pyramids are a lot like Hollywood movie facades...? Most people believe that they were built by accurately stacking together monstrous stones in perfect angle. In reality, the Pyramids are built with an inner core and an outer shell. The outer shell was very accurately done, with the stones nicely fitting together at the angles. However, since most of the outer shell is gone, one can now see the inner core, and here it gets a bit ugly. First of all, it is (the Great Pyramid) easy to see that it is a step pyramid, just as the older pyramids are. The stones are set with quite a degree of sloppiness, having gaps in between them of 4 to 6 inches. These gaps have been filled with all kinds of rubble and pebbles and, more importantly, large amounts of gypsum mortar. The angles are, I guess today we would say "not up to code"..
So what you really have is that the main building, the inner core, doesn't really show any of the fabled master masonry, only the outer shell was built to a high degree of accuracy. This made everything a lot easier of course and certainly didn't take aliens to do.
So, if we were to re-create a Pyramid today, which we could, the construction quality would actually be much better and more accurate than what the Egyptians did.

Here, this is what it looks like when we build a Pyramid, with glass windows and light show... guess the aliens didn't know how to do that...


edit on 4-11-2011 by nv4711 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie
Attempts at debunking the AAT are done by three groups of people:



Here's a Fourth:

People who look at what's being presented by the Ancient Astronaut theorists.......and decide that the so called "evidence" is far too weak to stand up to scrutiny.



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