We are now in a Defacto state of war with China

reply to post by Advantage


The Pakistan - China issue is very interesting because China is much more welcome in Pakistan than the USA is. First with the UAV drone strikes, then the killing of osama, now another terrorist was killed inside Pakistan. Seems the USA has declared a war with Pakistan.

It might be a war of usa vs china with Pakistan being the middle ground proxy for the battle.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


I don't know. When I first read the OP my gut feeling was no, no way. The U.S. and China are far too economically interdependent to have any really severe hard feeligns, never mind going hot.
But, that gut feeling is predicated on that interdependence. I have argued in multiple thininreads here and in other settings in my real life that the U.S. has a few years before China can successfully extract themselves from their reliance on the U.S. as a market place for their goods. But, given Chinese concerns about their economy actually overheating, their high level of savings, and the compressed time schedule for domestic improvements (overflow of Arab spring, striking workers, fewer works as impact of one child policy begins to be felt) maybe China is moving up the time table to dump the U.S. IF that is the case (and it still isn't my first inclination but I have heard it well argued by others) than the U.S. would have to take some action because they cannot afford to have China dump the U.S. dollar and call the debt.

In the event of a war (hot or cold as long as it is declared) the U.S. would simply ignore their outstanding debt, stop paying interest on it and eventually write it off after their victory. If the only way out from under our obligation to China includes a military action, waiting favors China while acting earlier favors the U.S.

The U.S. has long kept a technology gap, but it is closing. Of course both sides have black ops tech that haven't hit the MSM yet, but the U.S. is still ahead at the moment. Five years from now?

So it isn't likely perhaps. But that change in response to cyber activity is interesting. Very interesting. At this point it may be intended more to send a message than anything else. But I think the message is more about the dollar and the debt than the random hacking. The hacking is just the excuse for the U.S. to pursue a more aggressive path if China pursues an economic path that is not to the benefit of the U.S.

One thing I know for sure is that by cyber activity, economic activity, or actual military activity the U.S. will not go gently into that good night. China would do well to recognize that.

reply to post by watcher3339


So then,,, their is the, "Conspiracy Theory" by "Me",,,that a Chinese Built Harp Device ,, Destroyed Japan,, one of America's outer possecions. and thus wiping out a first line of Defence ,, in the Pacific.

But it didn't go BOOOOM! only went Shizzle,fizzze,,boom,,,,,( The Nuclear Reactor's at Fukushima ).

Just a Theory.

Me.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


People forget that India used too be Communist at one time.

quote
"The Communist Party of India (CPI) is a national political party in India. In the Indian communist movement, there are different views on exactly when the Indian communist party was founded. The date maintained as the foundation day by CPI is 26 December 1925. But the Communist Party of India (Marxist), which split-off from the CPI, claims that the party was founded in 1920."
unqote
Is Taliban just a fancy new age term for "communist insurgent" ???

Hey OP I am back again. This thread has stayed on my mind tonight, and I have to tell you: with the caveat that it is really about the debt situation, you actually have my full and complete attention. I can't believe that there isn't more traction on this thread. This could have huge ramifications and the more I think about the cyber war language the more convinced I become that we are in a very tense stand off and one that actually could lead to military action. Give the size of the Chinese population and their technological capabilities if this is a game of chicken because negotiations over the debt are going poorly, this strikes me as more likely to result in use of nukes than the cold war ever did. The U.S. has more to gain in this scenario. Ideals are great and important but if the economy shuts down....so, if I could flag you again I would. I wish more people were paying attention to this I would be interested in hearing some additional points of view.

China doesnt have to seek out resources in a desperate enough manner to start or participate in a war with the US.More likely is a conventional war with South Korea.china has a lot of men to waste and they dont want them wasted in a uclear exchange,they will use those bodies to gain territory from a neighbor the old fashioned way,maybe the US already thinks this.

The internet is owned by the world and cyber attacks shouldnt be possible any more against than for any country.

So you cant threaten retaliation for a crime you cant prove,and if you can prove it then bombs away.

If America says she will hit you SHE WILL HIT YOU.Big or small.

How about the US and Pakistan go to war,and china steps in for Pakistan enough to stop the US halfway through pakistan and china and the us split the country..

reply to post by one4all


quote
"How about the US and Pakistan go to war,and china steps in for Pakistan enough to stop the US halfway through pakistan and china and the us split the country.. "
unquote

not bad,, china gets slave labour, as does India,,,and the Economy booms again ,,, as long as your not the slave labour that is,,, naw too communistic,, but these days, hard too tell one from the other anymore anyway.

Why would the US and China fight each other when there are so many weak countries around to dominate?

Personally, I think that any war with another country won't happen at this point due to the elections in 2012. A digital false flag event wouldn't cause the reaction that an actual event would. I just don't think people would be as much accepting of it causing Obama's numbers to slide before the election.

Not smart.

Hey watcher thanks for your reply and others as well. I really do think that while nuclear war may not erupt a small scale proxy war via pakistan or NK may totally be possible:

www.newsvine.com...

China and US DOD secrtary gates are talking about Chinas position in the peace process in the asian region, which comprises of pakistan, NK, Afghanistan, and iran. After all these are all asian countries.

General Liang Guanglie says China's military is developing new capabilities, but that it is defensive in nature and meant to protect the country's sovereignty.

I guess General Liang is telling the USA that if the US inches any closer via either pakistan or NK then the gloves come off and the country will be defended. We are looking at the first steps towards a possible hot war, not necessarily nuclear.

China has a huge monopoly on high technology materials such as lithium, which in my opinoun is the new precious metal of the digital age. They control the prices of this commodity very strongly. With the Chinese population modernizing, increased demand for fuel will also play a major factor. That increase in fuel demand will drive US fuel prices up.

You also mentioned the technology gap. Actually China in on track to surpass the US in most technical publications:

www.guardian.co.uk...

China could overtake the United States as the world's dominant publisher of scientific research by 2013, according to an analysis of global trends in science by the Royal Society. The report highlighted the increasing challenge to the traditional superpowers of science from the world's emerging economies and also identified emerging talent in countries not traditionally associated with a strong science base, including Iran, Tunisia and Turkey.

Also the recent google mail breaches which the US is accusing of being china. That is what hillary clinton said

www.dailymail.co.uk...

China targeted White House with Gmail hacking - as Hillary Clinton calls threat 'very serious

Threat: The Pentagon said it is ready to retaliate against cyber attack

Sorry folks to bump. I really think that this is a serious digital war going on that people are not aware of.

I suspect stuff like this is going on with many countries, in addition to China. Just so happens, in regards to China, it leaked into the media.

It's probably a far cry from actual war. A cyber attack done right, is hard to identify too.

reply to post by EthanT


quote
"a far cry from actual war"
unquote

Actually didn't U.S. of A. just define it as an "act of war".

So theoretically all "computer terminals" are now classified as war combatants, and under the Geneva Convention, the rules of conduct ,,,,lol.

lol i know i don't make the rules, lol

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by EthanT

 

quote
"a far cry from actual war"
unquote

Actually didn't U.S. of A. just define it as an "act of war".

So theoretically all "computer terminals" are now classified as war combatants, and under the Geneva Convention, the rules of conduct ,,,,lol.

Well, then, you might as well say WWIII has already started too ;-)