Marvel of Creation.

I just find it amazing and purpose affirming that a massive beyond massive ball of brilliant light floating around in the nothingness of space can create physical matter, concentrate it into other not so massive but still massive balls of matter and mass and then one of those balls start growing things on it that hold a capacity for intelligence and emotions that give the living growth on the balls creative potential. Don't you?

It really puts things in perspective as to who we really are as creative intelligent star people. Man in God's image.

reply to post by smithjustinb


I agree, and very well put. The way you present your ideas is very visual and compelling. S&F

To go even further, how about the things that WE create that has creative potential (ie: Artificial Intelligence) or the 'realities' we create, say through video games or social networking.

It reminds me of the ending to Men in Black. We don't truly understand the scale of it all, or the concept of "it all" for that matter.

reply to post by StripedBandit


true.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
I just find it amazing and purpose affirming that a massive beyond massive ball of brilliant light floating around in the nothingness of space can create physical matter, concentrate it into other not so massive but still massive balls of matter and mass and then one of those balls start growing things on it that hold a capacity for intelligence and emotions that give the living growth on the balls creative potential. Don't you?

Starz I do good point.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
It really puts things in perspective as to who we really are as creative intelligent star people. Man in God's image.

Amazing I like how you think

Man on man.

This is such an amazing time and place to be. Thousands of years and mans perceptions and imaginations were based on such limited knowledge. Sure, there were things the ancients knew that maybe we don't, but for as long as we have recorded history, the advancement of knowledge has crawled along and along. Philosophers were limited to speculation on such limited observable input.

But now, the explosion of information is just astounding. I say astounding. We all now have information to take all those old philosophies and mix them around and make our own. And Bandit, wow, that clip just adds a grin to our silly seriousness. A perfect sense of awe.

Old students of life basically had the same information their ancestors had. We have information coming to us faster than books can be written about it. Zowee. And it ain't slowing down.

reply to post by smithjustinb


yeah it's totally awesome. What get's me is the notion of a perfect will imbedded into everything, driving the whole process right across the entire spectrum of all being and becoming which honors and upholds certain principals, like freedom with awareness. To me life is "kononia" or an intimate, participative sharing like that between a husband and wife. It's almost too much to take, if understood in terms of a gift we did not work for. Perhaps that's why in our ignorance, we reject it, life, in so many ways and opt instead for a highly constrained "deathful" life, and one that is petty, small and selfish.

Therefore I like to imagine that their education system on other civilized worlds is more appropriate to the task than what we've got going on down here on Earth, which I suppose is the reason that teachers come along time and again to teach us about heavenly things, to try to fill the gap our ignorance has created.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
I just find it amazing and purpose affirming that a massive beyond massive ball of brilliant light floating around in the nothingness of space can create physical matter

It doesn't, it just "changes" stuff. Everything has already been created.

......concentrate it into other not so massive but still massive balls of matter and mass and then one of those balls start growing things on it that hold a capacity for intelligence and emotions that give the living growth on the balls creative potential. Don't you?

Once again...just "change", and the intelligence and emotions you speak of only apply from the perspective of thoise who have them.

It really puts things in perspective as to who we really are as creative intelligent star people.

Naaaa, just starstuff in an ever changing endlessness.

Man in God's image.

Yup....God is meaningless too.

Ball of dirt hurtling through a void with no purpose other than to be part of something we will never understand.

It's all so simple when you take away the human need to categorise and explain absolutely every detail of everything.

Enjoy the ride.

reply to post by TerryMcGuire
If that's the case, why does everything seem to false and plastic, superficial and devoid of meaning and significance, lifeless? It seems to keep on getting worse too, and increasingly more difficult to hold sway so that one and all might have the opportunity to experience the fullness of the joys of living to the full, even to overflowing.

reply to post by nerbot


So what did the universe come from?

reply to post by smithjustinb


It didn't come from anywhere imo. It always was and will always be. Just different forms.

Seems to me like it would have been just a tad bit simpler to say: "amazing, isn't it, to think that our sun—brilliant and blinding—could have given rise to the circumstances which have allowed life on Earth, in all it's sentient beauty, to flourish."

I had to re-read your post a few times, OP, to get that you were referring to our sun, and the chemical reactions is has caused, which have brought about the physical manifestations of our current reality.

As an addendum, why do you think it is important to acknowledge "god" in this? More specifically, who, or which "god" are you acknowledging, and why is that "god" so vital to the natural reactions our sun undertakes? To me it seems as though our sun would have done what it did with, or without "god".

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Seems to me like it would have been just a tad bit simpler to say: "amazing, isn't it, to think that our sun—brilliant and blinding—could have given rise to the circumstances which have allowed life on Earth, in all it's sentient beauty, to flourish."

I had to re-read your post a few times, OP, to get that you were referring to our sun, and the chemical reactions is has caused, which have brought about the physical manifestations of our current reality.

As an addendum, why do you think it is important to acknowledge "god" in this? More specifically, who, or which "god" are you acknowledging, and why is that "god" so vital to the natural reactions our sun undertakes? To me it seems as though our sun would have done what it did with, or without "god".

~ Wandering Scribe

hahahahahahaha! excuuuuuuuse me.

Religion refers to God being light. Maybe the sun was the light it was talking about. I think it probably is.

reply to post by smithjustinb


As in The O.T., The last Book called "MALACHI" Ch. 4 verse 2....

Referring to "The SUN of Righteousness" ???

reply to post by smithjustinb


So, religion refers to God as being light. Alright. Additionally, you suppose, by whatever means, that the light being referred to is the sun. So, which God are we talking about? Did you not know that the sun, being worshiped, has a healthy history? Let's see here...

From Mesopotamia: Ninazu was the solar divinity, along with Shamash being the divinity of fire. Interestingly, the sun was not the center of worship to Mesopotamian cultures (Babylon, the Hittites, Akkadians, Canaanites, etc).

In Egypt the sun was deified in numerous incarnations: Khepri was the emerging sun; Nefertum was the sun at day-break; Ra was the sun during mid-day and into evening; Atum was considered the setting sun each night. Additionally, the pharaoh Akhenaten created the Aten, a monotheistic solar divinity in Egypt.

In India, Vedic and Hindu religions have a specific class of beings known as the Adityas, numbering 12 in total, which all refer to, and revere, solar divinity, power, and influence. Solar worship is considered one of the most important forms of worship in traditional Vedic and Hindu religions. Additionally, Surya and Garuda, and occasionally Agni.

Mesoamerican religions offer a host of solar divinities: Inti for the Incas; Kinich Ahua was the Maya sun god; Tonatiuh was one of a vast array of Aztec sun gods, also including the solar deity Huitzilopochtli. The sun being a prominent divinity of worship in Aztec culture. Each Native American tribe across North America had it's own definition of the sun as a divine being as well.

Greece and Rome offer Helios the Titan of Light; Apollo the sun god; Mithra and Sol Invictus as solar messiahs. The Norse as well has several fire/solar divinities: Freyr and Sunna among them.

That doesn't even include all of the manifestations of the sun that have been worshiped for the past 10,000 years by humans across the planet. The point being: why (a) god? What brings about the necessity for a divinity? Why can't the sun, a giant mass of Hydrogen, Helium, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Neon, Iron, Silicon, Magnesium, and Sulfur be responsible for the creation, evolution, and stability we've attained?

~ Wandering Scribe

"God causes his sun to shine on the good and the bad alike."

The Jews obviously didn't consider the sun as the same thing as God.

Jesus seemed to consider God as truth, spirit, and the first/last cause and a self aware being "Abba".

Light I think is God's universal "infrastructure", maybe even the physical emodiment of God, and having something to do with consciousness who knows..?

back on topic..

reply to post by NewAgeMan

reply to post by TerryMcGuire
If that's the case, why does everything seem to false and plastic, superficial and devoid of meaning and significance, lifeless? It seems to keep on getting worse too, and increasingly more difficult to hold sway so that one and all might have the opportunity to experience the fullness of the joys of living to the full, even to overflowing.

If what's the case? I'm missing the reason from my post that would bring you to ask this question.

It's certainly a good question, I just need to know why you ask it in order to answer cogently.

The Word “LIGHT” as used in the N.T. in English came from the original Greek Writings.

Example from The N.T. “The Gospel According to JOHN” Ch. 1 verse 4 Quote;

In Him (GOD) was LIFE, which was the LIGHT of MEN.

In Greek ΦΩΣ contracted from ΦΑΟΣ
Also ΦΑΩ meaning Daylight or the LIGHT of the Sun , Star etc.

They did NOT worship the SUN but they did Worship "The LIGHT of MEN which is The LIFE of GOD..

i.e. they did worship the LIGHT from the SUN, Stars, and FIRE.

Remember Moses and The FIRE on the Mount ???

Another example from The N.T. it is written Let "The Day Star" (SUN) rise in your Hearts.."

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I'm not arguing with you. I'm on your side.

Can you see how in a way, since the sun made us and we are intelligent, then the sun is intelligent? We are all part of the Solar System. It's not the human system, it's the solar system.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
The Word “LIGHT” as used in the N.T. in English came from the original Greek Writings.

Example from The N.T. “The Gospel According to JOHN” Ch. 1 verse 4 Quote;

In Him (GOD) was LIFE, which was the LIGHT of MEN.

In Greek ΦΩΣ contracted from ΦΑΟΣ
Also ΦΑΩ meaning Daylight or the LIGHT of the Sun , Star etc.

They did NOT worship the SUN but they did Worship "The LIGHT of MEN which is The LIFE of GOD..

i.e. they did worship the LIGHT from the SUN, Stars, and FIRE.

Remember Moses and The FIRE on the Mount ???

Another example from The N.T. it is written Let "The Day Star" (SUN) rise in your Hearts.."

edit on 4-6-2011 by The Matrix Traveller because: Syntax Error

But the sun is the source of the light of men since the sun is the source of men.

But really it goes deeper than that. There is something that created the sun too. Pure life without form probably. Then BANG. The light of the stars is made from the image of the light of life.

I do think that in the beginning, there was nothing, or possibly there was never nothing, just pure life w/o form that was light. If light has nothing to reflect off of, then you can't observe it, so perhaps this is why we can't see the light of life, but its all around us all the time. Idk, I think I'm starting to ramble.

reply to post by smithjustinb



I completely agree with the idea that the sun is responsible for our ability to exist, function, think, and reason; the sun is the reason our solar system exists, and the reason why we're alive and breathing. I just can't make the leap from "the sun allows us to live" to "the sun is an intelligent being". To me, that's too much of a leap of faith. Should we also deify penicillin? How about water, should we believe in water as a thinking, sentient being (obviously ignoring Dr. Emoto's work here, of course)? The sun, or light, or fire is not the only life-sustaining force present in our biosphere. Light is not even the most important. Humans can live without light. But, take away water, air, and sustenance and we die.

Do you get where I'm coming from? These are natural things. Not necessarily sentient things. The sun doesn't need an intelligence, just as water, air, and sustenance don't. In fact, if water were sentient, thinking, reasoning, and logical then I would never want to consume it again, because I'd feel horrible for "killing" it.

So, why do you think the sun is an intelligent being/force?



reply to post by The Matrix Traveller



Not that I have a huge problem with the Bible... but, it's just a book, written by people who didn't fully comprehend the way the world in which they lived worked. So, unless you've got some air-tight defense for the validity, and authenticity of the Bible (which the world at large would love, I'm sure)... then what makes scripture from the Bible more relevant than the words of the Rig Veda, the Egyptian Book of Coming Forth by Day, the Book of Mormon, or the treatise of Scientology written by L. Ron Hubbard?

The ancient people understood that the sun was important to their well-being: it chased away predators of the night; it made the crops grow; it kept them warm when it got cold; it helped them navigate time and space; and more. But, again, the same leap of faith is required to attribute it to "god". Which god? What evidence supports it being that god? Where is said evidence validated? Why are other "gods" incorrect, etc.

Most importantly, why does it need to be a god? Why can't everyone just see that the sun is what it is: a giant chemical reactor operating of it's own perpetual existence. It does, what it does, because of what it is made out of. Is it so hard to just accept that?

~ Wandering Scribe