To Frack or not to Frack....Please help!

Thats terrible, Im in PA we have no laws regarding fracking so there is nothing we can do to stop it if we tried. Ask others from my state they rip up acres then leave them as giant treeless dents in the ground. Good Luck and fight hard!

Yeah, it is sad that your dream world has been shattered by bulldozers. Here you wanted to get away from it all, so you moved to the country, built a house bordering on acres and acres of open land, and enjoyed the freedom of being away from "all that stuff." Brings a smile of contentment to my face just thinking about such an ideal place.

But this is Texas, right? Mineral rights are important there just as logging rights are where I live. I once looked at a five acre spot covered with young fir, pine, and cedar trees with a view of the snow-capped Olympic Mountains. Looked like a pretty good price for the time--until I read the phrase buried in the deed about "logging rights." They (The Bad Guys) had the right to log the property one more time when this crop of trees had reached what they considered maturity.

I didn't buy. A few years later I drove by the place and saw all the trees had been cut down. The view of the Olympics was 'really good' because there were no trees in the way. A couple of houses stood forelornly in the middle of this 'development' which was a couple hundred acres altogether. I didn't get away scott free, though. Where I did buy, deep in the woods surrounded by trees, I lived for nine years before the guy behind me clear cut his ten acres, 600 feet of which was a shared property line at the back of my house. It totally changed the complexion of the small neighborhood. I basically had no rights whatsoever in that situation.

So the lesson to be learned here is that if you don't own the wilderness in front of you, or if it is not a protected national wilderness area or park that can never be messed with, then you are living on borrowed time. Even if you 'own,' it, if you didn't check the deed, this sort of thing can happen. And although I am sympathetic, I think you bear some small share of responsibility here. You basically built your house in the middle of an oil/gas field, and now you're complaining because they want to take oil and gas from it. Most people in the industry will be saying, "Well, duh." and I doubt you will get very far. I really think you should plan for your future from the standpoint that this is a done deal.

reply to post by browneyedgirl8


Read my location............We the people have no rights.

The large corporations rule America and own Washington DC.

Welcome to reality.

I feel for you because many people would not buy your home now.

And this can happen to any of us.

Maybe complain to your Village President and your state reps, maybe contact a lawyer and sue but good luck.

For the People and by the People is a joke..............an illusion.

reply to post by browneyedgirl8
ok now that you smell the eggs time to think about moving, for your life is more important than land, if you stay, be ready for spills, smells and undrinkable water if your on a well. If your on city or county water have it tested once a month, if it smells or look funny do not drink it, looks like weak tea or has a metallic taste or a rotten egg smell.

reply to post by schuyler


Thank you for your wise and informative post.



Got to read the fine print.

My understanding (and I'm not a real estate agent) is that anytime the government wants the resources on your property or near your property they can come in and just flat out take it. This also goes for if they want to put a highway in or a big corporation that has tight government "connections" want to put in condos. Yes they may have to pay you, but you had better hope they pair you half way fairly a good price.

Basically the common man has no say.

And guess who owns the government?

Again, read my location.

We are slaves ......................... but most people just don't realize it.

We pay heavy taxes and our voting is a sham.

Again, this is just my own opinion and anyone out there with valid information to prove me wrong please post.

In America today people think they own their land, but unless they have the Land Patent on the land they do not own it. Most people today obtain "Real Estate" by contract and then on fulfillment of the contract they transfer control of land by "Warranty Deed".

The "Warranty Deed" is merely a "color of title". Color of Title means: "That which is a semblance or appearance of title, but not title in fact or in law." Howth v. Farrar, C.C.A. Tex., 94 F.2d 654, 658; McCoy v. Lowrie, 42 Wash. 2d 24, Black's Law Sixth Ed.

The Warranty Deed cannot stand against the Land Patent. "A grant of land (Land Patent) is a public law standing on the statue books of the State, and is notice to every subsequent purchaser under any conflicting sale made afterward." Wineman v. Gastrell, 54 FED 819, 2 IS Ap. 581

The Land Patent is permanent and cannot be changed by the government after its issuance. "Where the United States has parted with title by a patent legally issued and upon surveys made by itself and approved by the proper department, the title so granted cannot be impaired by any subsequent survey made by the government for its own purposes." Cage v. Danks, 13 LA.ANN 128

In the history of this county no Land Patent has ever lost an appellate review in the courts. As a matter of fact in Summa Corp. v California, 466 US 198 the Supreme Court ruled forever that the Land Patent would always win over any other form of title. In that case the land in question was tidewater land and California's claim was based on California's constitutional right to all tidewater lands. The patent stood supreme even against California's Constitution.

Land cannot be taken for debt or taxes, but Real Estate can be.

What is Real Estate? It's a document that lays over the land in color of title. It is proper only when no real title to the land exists. Banks and corporations like Real Estate because they can own it without an Act of Congress. They and others can use the fiction of title to seize land under the color of law.

They've taken their colors of title into the courts for so long that the people (under three generations of deception and ignorance) simply allow them to go ahead. We had forgotten about land patents.

For that cause when you go into a court today with a real property title case (a Land Patent case) chances are the judge and any attorneys involved won't know what a Land Patent is.

The first court you run into that understands the power of a Land Patent may be a U.S. Circuit court of Appeals, and in the history of this nation there has never been an appellate case where a properly set Land Patent has ever lost there.

If you ever have the occasion to have to defend your right to your land in court. And someone else presents a proof of land patent on your land, you'll loose your land.

If you haven't brought your land patent up in your name, you may be abandoning your right to your land. Any prior owner with lawful right to the land patent could bring the land patent up and evict you off from the land you thought was yours, and you'll have to leave.

Now, let's suppose you have your Land Patent properly secured and for some reason you have to defend your right to the land. What do you do?

If you understand the patent and how it works you'll defend it successfully.

So again, here's how it works:
The Land came to the nation by treaty or war prize. The government only had limited ability to own land, as before mentioned, and all of the remainder of the land was held in the sole disposition of the United States until it was granted under act of Congress by the hand and seal of the President to some person. Then in that same act the President makes the Grant Patent. Which means that the Land came to the nation by treaty and the patent assigns a specific part of that treaty to you and your heirs and assigns forever.

So your land comes to you from the treaty through your Land Patent. This is critical, the Land Patent secures the treaty to you. The court is bound by the supremacy clause of the Constitution to uphold the treaty making your Patent a statutory limitation throughout the land. Wineman v. Gastrell 54 FED 819, 2 U.S. App. 581.

If you ever have to defend your right to the Patent here's how. Get a full abstract on your land. The Abstract will show the assignment on the land and patent from the patent to you. Each record of the Abstract is a matter of public record, well established over time. If your right to the land was well secured (Warranty Deed) and you have properly brought up your Land Patent, you'll win, if you're prepared.

Land Patents
Understanding how they work

Source and rest of article: www.survivalistboards.com...

Im on the fence about this issue. The problem is that 90% of the worlds supply of natural gas is mined by fracking. Ban fracking and not only will energy prices go up but only the rich will be able to afford to heat their homes. There is absolutely zero proof that fracking causes earthquakes or pollutes the groundwater. The evidence is all circumstantial and there is no smoking gun.

There are a few loan wolf scientists who have come out and said that fracking does infact pollute the water supply however the problem is that academics have a long history of crying wolf so it's very difficult to know when to take them seriously. Look at California. Academics used their "research" to convince the government to force the oil industry to add MTBE to auto fuel because it would reduce pollution. Consumers paid for MTBE additives through higher prices at the pump. 30 years later, those same academics had to admit that MTBE is a major cancer causing agent and because they forced the oil industry to add it to gasoline, well water in CA is contaminated with their research. Most of the time man's meddling is worse than leaving things alone. We should consider the dangers of fracking but there must be far more correlation of claims before we all conclude the sky is falling just because chicken little says so.

I would suggest that you go to your state's energy department (energy&mines, energy&resources, usually something along that lines) and look at what is available to you for guidance about these issues.

I would also suggest that you look up groups / lawyers in your area regarding petroleumn development stakeholders relations. If you are a freeholder (even if you aren't) I might look up the freeholders association in your area. They could also be called a Royalty Owners something or other. They may be able to give you some guidance as to where you can look for help.


Here's some information about hydraulic fracturing. I don't know if that is what you are talking about here.






What makes you think that what they are doing in your area is fracking? This is not the only way to develop wells. Are you sure this is how it is being done? Are you sure they are developing a shale deposit? Have you asked your government for the information about the license, the application for the well, discussed with your neighbour what they have?

reply to post by browneyedgirl8


Starred and flagged.

browneyedgirl8, I feel really bad for you and your husband. The fact that you have been willing to put up with up to 3 hours commuting each day really says a lot about how much you love your location.

I don't know how much help this would be, but you should keep a record of every time you smell gas and what it smells like, had your quiet disturbed by noise pollution, saw any kind of uncontained run off or spills, and basically anything else you can think of that reduces the quality of life you and your husband have enjoyed at your home.

This is going to sound like heresy coming from a gun-toting country boy, but see if you can get the EPA (federal level) involved and any environmental groups as well. If the well stinks that's more than enough reason to raise your own stink over it.

Short of having the resources to lawyer-up like Bill Gates, going to the media is the biggest stick you got to hit the company with, and write your state and federal reps and senators before you do; if they don't respond you can put them on hot seat by calling them out in the media, and have the tree-huggers to back you up.

You only have two "good" outcomes as I see it: you make so much trouble that they accommodate you somehow, or they offer to buy you out so you can move. The main thing is to make so much noise that they'll be ready to deal for real just to shut you up. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that.

Good luck. Like I said I'm sorry for you guys going through this; it must be a real sweet place to put up with that commute.

Blackpool UK was never well known for Earthquakes, then they started Fracking (first place in the UK), next thing Earthquakes start occuring in Blackpool.

There was a thread recently on ATS explaining, Blackpool locals said they were going to write to their MPs. The Fracking has now been suspended

www.independent.co.uk...

Originally posted by schuyler
But this is Texas, right? Mineral rights are important there just as logging rights are where I live.

I live in Texas, and years ago we bought a heavily wooded 20 acre lot to build a cabin on as a weekend getaway. After we had owned it a few years we got a letter from a company that wanted to come on our land and do "testing", and they offered us some nominal amount. We wrote a letter back politely refusing. We then received a threatening letter telling us that they could come on our land with or without our permission and that we better take the offer or else. That second letter was my first notification that we did not own the mineral rights to our land. I pulled out our contract from when we bought the land and it said absolutely nothing about the mineral rights, but incredibly, in Texas when you buy land 99% of the time you are not buying the mineral rights and the seller is not required to inform you of this!!!! In our case we capitulated and as it turns out all they did was lay a cable across the land for a short time, so it ended up not being intrusive. But they also could have drilled on our land, or even installed a well and while they would have to compensate us by law, we would have been powerless to stop them.

By the way, we learned that country life is not all it's cracked up to be. People just love to drive out to the country and dump all the trash, sofas, boats, etc. that they can't get rid of in town. They seem oblivious to the fact that they're dumping on private property, I guess they think that if they see woods then it must be land that is theirs to do with as they please. Also people really enjoy breaking into buildings/ cabins/ homes in the country because it's easy not to be seen. We had the place for 10 years or so and finally sold it after experiencing these joys and more.

reply to post by browneyedgirl8


And my mother did it to you.

She is in the end of her years, so is not concerned about property values; but instead, likes the idea of getting a check from the energy company (which changes names and ownership like clothing). She and everyone else in her neighborhood could anonymously lower property values (and the viability of even maintaining a livability in her neighborhood) in return for a monthly check with which she buys luxuries. Her neighbors did exactly the same.

It is not just that the government no longer cares about the rights of an individual-- it is that even our neighbors do not care. Few persons care about anything but money-- especially if they cannot be seen in their lack of caring.

That is our post-modern society: Produce, produce, produce! Our culture hates it, but in the name of production, our culture is all but dead.

As a result, we are supposed to be worried about health care and the budget-- that is what our society tells us we are to notice. And, How dare you talk about anything else!

No wonder so many perceive theories of conspiracy. It is no conspiracy-- it is an out-in-the-open war in which we have no means to fight against.

This is a good movie about Fracking:






This one guys drinking water has so much gas in it, he can light it with a match and it blows up in flames. :O

Don't remember if Gasland also covered this aspect, but here's an additional consequence other than the ones already mentioned about ground stability and : Radioactive Water—More Bad News from the World of Fracking.

They're not regulating fracking, and even where there is regulation no one seems to be enforcing it. Seems to me to be purely for profit and consequences and safety and the planet be damned.

Fracking.

This thread should perhaps be made permanent?
I spend six months a year in Australia and there some 80% of the nation is now covered by exploration leases.
China has agreed to buy the fracked gas to the tune of a 120 Bilion Aus Dollar contract.
It appears the Government here is allowing a known potential killer gas extraction method to be set loose on an entire nation known for its clean environment ...why?
Money lots and lots and lots of it, enough backhanders for every Politican every councilor who turns a blind eye, who ridicule those opposing Fracking.
I worked underground in a shallow coal seam for five years below me was sandstone, above me sandstone, all through the rock was water , an entire river was poisoned permanently nearby from pollutant run off from this mine, no fish were in the river you couldn't drink from it.
Fracking will kill our planet long term, but short term those who profit by engaging in Environmental Terrorism on their own citizens the world over are going to get SUPER SUPER RICHER, and no one can blame them for capatilising on whats below the Earth, can we?
They sure have exhausted polluting whats above the Earth.

The "rotten egg" smell you notice is most likely hydrogen sulfide. OSHA regulates exposure limits. You can rent a small detector to test the amounts outside your house. If the parts per million is to high, you may have an excellent case for compensation.
el.erdc.usace.army.mil...
Here is a link to exposure limits.

Originally posted by valideria
The "rotten egg" smell you notice is most likely hydrogen sulfide. OSHA regulates exposure limits. You can rent a small detector to test the amounts outside your house. If the parts per million is to high, you may have an excellent case for compensation.
el.erdc.usace.army.mil...
Here is a link to exposure limits.

You can sometimes have a company put up a permanent meter on your property, with an alarm if someone has a breathing issue that can be complicated.

thanks for all the help i have not had a chance to read everything yet. I just got home after bad traffic. I did receive some good news today. In the past 2 weeks i have been in contact with the EPA, TCEQ (texas commision on environmental quality and the Texas railroad commision. The report i made last night to EPA was forwarded to TCEQ as their website was down due to Maintenance. TCEQ sent 2 investigators this morning to my property and where they think the smell was coming from. I talked with investigator as he told me what to expect. They should have results by 5 pm. instead i receive an email around 3:30 as i am leaving work. I will post email later. Whatever they found will have to be sent to Austin and will take 3-4 weeks for testing. Earlier he told me he would have results by end of day. he attached some affidavits with the email and the reports. They did not close the investigation which from what i have read on the web they come out test air and case closed. so maybe some good news. The investigator i spoke with first this morning sent an email on who is responsible for what. smells TCEQ, pollutants the Railroad commision.


Sorry i wrote my op in a hurry as the past 2 weeks have been a blur. There is alot more to this story. The land behind me (the surface owners are currently in a lawsuit) was according to their documentation ( and what i was told by the house developer before i bought the land) is that it was a planned community for another phase of house developments. We were assured no wells. All the wells around us are not close to homes in large pastures. The land owners are currently trying to receive an injunction to stop the drilling.

I have talked with the Devon rep 3 to 4 times now. It is hydraulic fracking and drilling for 2 wells now as they do not currently have permits for the next 2. Devon project to do 4 wells. I have all the ariel views, public record of land and mineral rights etc. I have tried to do my homework and contact the correct individuals. I just feel as if i am getting the run around from everyone...except for today.

I will try to take some pics of my backyard now and post. i will also try to read everyones responses and try to respond back to everyone.

I will also try to post the audio of the 1st meeting with the devon rep.

Maybe I started this thread wrong and its confusing. I will try to reorganize and make sure I post all the pertinent information as i know already there is tons i have forgotten to add. Thanks everyone.

reply to post by browneyedgirl8


They are also frakking (the spelling on the billboards) up here in North Dakota on the Bakken reserve. These wells are everywhere. The rotten egg smell is gas from the well, and the flames are the burn off of natural gas- meaning they didn't install pipes (yet) to capture the natural gas.

Since we are indeed somewhat close to Yellowstone, and the Bakken reserve is huge, some folks are concerned about earthquakes in this area. Although seemingly not, the area is indeed geologically active, with fault lines showing up in many of the gravel pits my husband digs into. Trust me folks, you do not want Yellowstone's super volcano going off, if one can prevent it.

The excuse I keep hearing is that we need the oil to reduce our dependance on foreign oil, but mostly it's greed. Lots of new millionaires around here, with prices being jacked up accordingly- on everything, from groceries, to housing, and everything in between. It's as high as the big cities, with no end in sight.


I can't see that it will do our world any good, this new process of reaching the unreachable.

Peace
SK

You have real concerns. When building a home in a undeveloped area you have little choice of who or what is built next to you. It could have been a super Walmart or a oil/gas well. As more demand for gas/oil in the US continues these wells be where ever they can find oil/gas. I am sure the country's need for energy will out way your desire for a quite home spot. One of best ways to solve this is to sell your home, maybe to the well drillers and find a more developed area to build in.