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Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

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posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

channel.nationalgeographic.com...-Videos/07451_00

My position is simple.
To offer or be a scapegoat for others who will not step up to their own responsibilities and consequences for their action is immoral and self aggrandizing. I see mythical Jesus as doing just that.

To accept the sacrifice of a scapegoat Jesus and to try to profit from his death is also immoral.

www.youtube.com...

Scripture indicates, Trinitarians aside, that God the Father sent his son to die for mankind to fulfill a need that God himself created. That of a blood sacrifice to forgive sin when he has the power to forgive sin without it.

www.youtube.com...

As above so below.
For us to believe that God would plan for and send his son to die, we would have to think it normal and good for a father to bury his son. Any good man would reject such an example of good conduct as definitely not good, natural or moral. Any God the father, or earthly father, worth his title, would step up himself for such a task yet Bible God takes the cowardly route and sends his son. What a pathetic God. What pathetic followers he also has who would think that this is the way things should be.

Eze 18;20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49;7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Do you recognize the immorality of believers using Jesus as a scapegoat and of them trying to profit from his murder?

If his death was a suicide, which is the way I see it, is it moral for believers to try to profit from his pathetic self aggrandizing sacrifice?

Regards
DL




posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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Why do i get the feeling you're looking for a fight?

Good luck man




posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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had to read a few times to understand what you were saying
but i think thats just me brain shutting down.

interesting take you have on it, perhaps Jesus was simply a deluded man who thought he was who he was, and hence committed suicide for the *greater good*. who knows. its not something that can be proven as fact sadly.

im not sayin i agree with your theory but i do get were your coming from on it tho... your gonna need it once the religious ones come
be nice to get an adult debate going on somthing for a change lol
edit on 2/6/11 by ronishia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


If this Jesus guy was real, I'd go with the OS.
He was killed by the jews.
If he was real, general consensus says he was a good guy, loving, forgiving type, hardly suicide material.
Just my hyperinflated 2 cents.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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Scripture indicates your one of the majority, Why don't you neck yourself for your friends??? Then you can grandise ya fat ass



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Suicide? Err, who'd want to go out that way? The flogging, the nails, the spear in the side... Besides, crucifixion was a normal form of Roman execution. He came, he did what he did, and he left. He had no selfish desire or need to save his fleshy body -- it wasn't important.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
My position is simple.
To offer or be a scapegoat for others who will not step up to their own responsibilities and consequences for their action is immoral and self aggrandizing.


Is it? Or is it the greatest gift of all? When a firefighter rushes in to a collapsing building to save someone knowing full well he's risking his life, and he is killed in the process, do you also brand him a self-aggrandizing fool? Or a hero?


Originally posted by Greatest I am
To accept the sacrifice of a scapegoat Jesus and to try to profit from his death is also immoral.


Yet there are tens of thousands of testimonies from individuals describing how their life was full of despair until they were saved by Jesus Christ. After salvation, they live a better life full of hope and thanks. What is "immoral" about that exactly?


Originally posted by Greatest I am
God the Father sent his son to die for mankind to fulfill a need that God himself created.


God didn't create the need for salvation. We did. We all chose sin via our free will.


Originally posted by Greatest I am
Any God the father, or earthly father, worth his title, would step up himself for such a task yet Bible God takes the cowardly route and sends his son.


Incorrect. You clearly do not understand the Trinity. God IS the son, God IS the Holy Spirit, and God IS the father. He sent His son, but He and His son are one and the same. See the below diagram:





posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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No more or less so than that Bhutto woman who flew back to Pakistan knowing she would die a very unpretty death soon after landing...



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


I really appreciate the perspective communicated in the Law of One.

Basically Jesus had a *massive* distortion towards martyrdom. However what he was *trying* to communicate was that we shouldn't fear death. Not that he was dying for us... but he was dying in the most gruesome way to show us that death was an opportunity/window for transformation... NOT an end of everything.

This message was corrupted by people seeking power and converting it into a message of "someone else gives you this gift... BE GRATEFUL YOU PATHETIC WORMS!!!!" rather than we are all Son's/Daughter's of God and we *all* have the same greatness and potential within us that Jesus was demonstrating. This greatness is not to be found fully in the Bible as presented to the Christian Market today...which it *is* a market.

Namaste.
edit on 2-6-2011 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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err.. if Jesus committed suicide, doesn't that mean Jesus is in hell?
as I was raised catholic and broke free when i reached the age of reason, I was taught that all suicides go straight to Hell. If Jesus killed himself, then he's burning in Hell.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by ronishia
had to read a few times to understand what you were saying
but i think thats just me brain shutting down.

interesting take you have on it, perhaps Jesus was simply a deluded man who thought he was who he was, and hence committed suicide for the *greater good*. who knows. its not something that can be proven as fact sadly.

im not sayin i agree with your theory but i do get were your coming from on it tho... your gonna need it once the religious ones come
be nice to get an adult debate going on somthing for a change lol
edit on 2/6/11 by ronishia because: (no reason given)


Hmm.
I have been around for a while and have yet to have a debate with a religious adult.
I am the only religious adult that I have yet to know.
Do they truly exist?

I do recognize that it is mostly adults here but most religionists believe in fantasy, miracles and magic so I do not really class them as adults but more as children with adult bodies.

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


If this Jesus guy was real, I'd go with the OS.
He was killed by the jews.
If he was real, general consensus says he was a good guy, loving, forgiving type, hardly suicide material.
Just my hyperinflated 2 cents.


Yet he hung around to get Judas' kiss of death.
That is suicide since all he had to do was leave town and let things cool off.

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Burgo
Scripture indicates your one of the majority, Why don't you neck yourself for your friends??? Then you can grandise ya fat ass


We tend to honor those who die for their friends but in the case of Jesus, he is the one who threw the grenade in the foxhole that he then smothered. That is suicide and not an honorable deed.

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
Suicide? Err, who'd want to go out that way? The flogging, the nails, the spear in the side... Besides, crucifixion was a normal form of Roman execution. He came, he did what he did, and he left. He had no selfish desire or need to save his fleshy body -- it wasn't important.


Sacrifice involves sacrificing something important.
If there was not much lose then there was not much of a sacrifice. Especially if you are sacrificing something to yourself. Then there is no lose at all.

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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edit on 6-6-2011 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


I think those bad people don't even seek forgiveness so Jesus didn't die for them.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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SavedOne

I could not get the quote function right so please forgive.

“”Originally posted by Greatest I am
My position is simple.
To offer or be a scapegoat for others who will not step up to their own responsibilities and consequences for their action is immoral and self aggrandizing.


Is it? Or is it the greatest gift of all? When a firefighter rushes in to a collapsing building to save someone knowing full well he's risking his life, and he is killed in the process, do you also brand him a self-aggrandizing fool? Or a hero? “”


You forget that in this case, for your scenario to match, you have the fire fighter lighting the fire in the first place.

“”Originally posted by Greatest I am
To accept the sacrifice of a scapegoat Jesus and to try to profit from his death is also immoral.


Yet there are tens of thousands of testimonies from individuals describing how their life was full of despair until they were saved by Jesus Christ. After salvation, they live a better life full of hope and thanks. What is "immoral" about that exactly?

If you have a debt to pay, are you doing the moral thing by letting so other innocent person pay it and shedding your own responsibility for it?
Your answer is why it is immoral.

“”Originally posted by Greatest I am
God the Father sent his son to die for mankind to fulfill a need that God himself created.


God didn't create the need for salvation. We did. We all chose sin via our free will.””

Perhaps but God determines the method of that salvation and if the method is to have his own son killed then he is an insane God.
If Jesus was a three in one God then who was he sacrificing to.
Can you sacrifice something to yourself? No you cannot.

“”Originally posted by Greatest I am
Any God the father, or earthly father, worth his title, would step up himself for such a task yet Bible God takes the cowardly route and sends his son.


Incorrect. You clearly do not understand the Trinity. God IS the son, God IS the Holy Spirit, and God IS the father. He sent His son, but He and His son are one and the same. See the below diagram:

If they are all equal then they would share all the same information yet Jesus said---only the father knows--when referring to end times.

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by the owlbear
No more or less so than that Bhutto woman who flew back to Pakistan knowing she would die a very unpretty death soon after landing...


Suicide then.

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


I really appreciate the perspective communicated in the Law of One.

Basically Jesus had a *massive* distortion towards martyrdom. However what he was *trying* to communicate was that we shouldn't fear death. Not that he was dying for us... but he was dying in the most gruesome way to show us that death was an opportunity/window for transformation... NOT an end of everything.

This message was corrupted by people seeking power and converting it into a message of "someone else gives you this gift... BE GRATEFUL YOU PATHETIC WORMS!!!!" rather than we are all Son's/Daughter's of God and we *all* have the same greatness and potential within us that Jesus was demonstrating. This greatness is not to be found fully in the Bible as presented to the Christian Market today...which it *is* a market.

Namaste.
edit on 2-6-2011 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)


A rather Gnostic take.
I like it.

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by SireFurious
err.. if Jesus committed suicide, doesn't that mean Jesus is in hell?
as I was raised catholic and broke free when i reached the age of reason, I was taught that all suicides go straight to Hell. If Jesus killed himself, then he's burning in Hell.


Not if you believe the odd bit of wisdom in scriptures.

If suicide is evil as you say because of what scriopture says then you also have to buy this quote.

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Sending someone to hell, anyone in fact, is definitely not overcoming evil with good.

I do not recommend suicide for anyone as I venerate life but I do believe that our lives are our own and we have a right to follow our bliss to wherever it takes us and if that includes suicide for those who do not value their lives then it is not wrong to end it.

Regards
DL



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