FermiLab's Mystery Signal Appears Real (a new force in the quantium world)part2

hopefully you will recall fermi labs big news that a hump in the 145GeV region of emitions from collisions there was an unexpected "hump"
i sure some one with a better understanding of particle physics than i can explain this a bit better than i,
so it is with pleasure that i present more results i dont really understand
lol

Excitement is based on an analysis of eight years of data collected by Fermilab's CDF experiment that looked at collisions that produced a W boson, carrier of the weak nuclear force, along with two jets of quarks

The CDF team has analysed nearly twice the amount of data the first result was based on, and the result has not gone away. In fact, as CDF physicist Giovanni Punzi told a conference this week in Blois, France, the signal has only gotten stronger. It is reportedly at 4.8 sigma, tantalisingly close to five-sigma certainty needed to be considered "evidence" but still far from the five-sigma gold standard needed to proclaim a true epic discovery. There is a 1 in 1 million chance that it was just a statistical fluke

"We're still going through all the data, and we've got two other teams repeating the analysis in a different way, so we're not going to publish a five-sigma result until all of our i's and t's are dotted and crossed," says CDF spokesperson Rob Roser.

source

so it sounds like going back over 8 years of data looking for the same sig or "bump" has reinforced that this "bump" has shown up in previous data and may acually be found to be a new force of quantium mecanix.

this could lead to a new understanding of the fundimental components of the forces of nature in the quantium world.

hopefully some one can explain "why" this is a massive find as at the moment the 1000000/1 chances this is an error will mean eventually if reveiwing is accepted that we have a new force to master and understand

currently at 4.8 sigma the results are likely to reach the 5.0 sigma nessecery to be considered as "scientifically aceptable" as a acual force

so some help from the physicists on ats would be helpful

xploder

Not sure lad. But I just flagged it there to bump it up.

I need a better understanding on this myself.

You should have quoted the first paragraph:

145 GeV – suggesting that they are being produced by an unidentified particle of the same mass. It was immediately certain that whatever the particle was, it was not predicted by the standard model of physics

They think there might be another boson, a new fundamental force next to electromagnetism, gravity strong and weak interactions.

a particle called the Z-prime, a hypothetical carrier of a new force similar to the electroweak force, though it would have to be an unusual version of a Z-prime

See: Standard_Model

reply to post by moebius


so it would be the a "fifth" fundamental quantum force
cool i wounder what the properties will be

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER
so it would be the a "fifth" fundamental quantum force
cool i wounder what the properties will be

Love.

Namaste.

A new force pretty much dictates a new model, as the "standard model" in use today doesn't predict or really adapt easily to consideration of a new force.

That sounds a bit dramatic - but there are, almost literally, thousands of competing theoretical models that propose new particles and forces. Though I'm not sure how these stack up to the concept of a new fundamental force of nature.

In either case - this will be a -very- heavily scrutinized ordeal. It will pretty much be the last major set of tests to be conducted at Fermilab, and is perhaps the single most important discovery this half of the century. A hell of a curtain closing for Fermilab.

I’ll wait till I read it somewhere else that Daily Galaxy before I believe it’s all done and dusted. It isn’t yet.

Here’s a more cautious and balanced article reporting the same news at New Scientist.

An independent check will also come from Fermilab's DZero experiment, which has enough of its own data to corroborate or cast doubt on the particle's existence. So far, the DZero team is keeping quiet, but it is expected to publish its results in the next few weeks.

The Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland should also be able to test CDF's result. There's talk that the LHC hasn't seen any such bump – but Roser says that doesn't mean much one way or the other, as the LHC hasn't collected as much data as Fermilab. "They haven't really achieved the sensitivity to see this yet," he explains.

reply to post by Astyanax


thanks for the link, the jury is still out in the case of the new force

ill take a read of your link and try to make sence of it

xploder star for you
edit

Now that there's a mere 1 in a million chance that the result is a fluke, it seems there are only two options: either it's the result of some systematic or detector effect that no one has thought of yet, or it's real. The CDF team is hard at work trying to figure out which. "We're still going through all the data, and we've got two other teams repeating the analysis in a different way, so we're not going to publish a five-sigma result until all of our i's and t's are dotted and crossed," says CDF spokesperson Rob Roser.

source

so this could turn out to be nothing "or"
we will be waiting for a while, while the results are varifyed
and it still could turn out to be nothing

sure is exciting
xploder

If the results are confirmed, then alot of very smart people, are going to have to do some furious work with a supercomputer and a blackboard to explain the presence of this new force, and its mechanical interaction with the known universe, and the other theories which currently dictate our understanding of it.

This experiment, and the others performed by particle colliders around the world, are something which I believe to be of paramount importance in physics. To rely solely on the mathematical theory behind current thinking on physics, is in my opinion similar to being given a drivers liscence purely based on a theory examination, rather than using practical training to ensure the quality of potential road users. That in mind, I believe that in order to create better forms of energy production, space travel and exploration equipment, and improve our understanding of the universe, this sort of work is essential

I can't wait...
Awesome subject!!
S&F!

reply to post by TrueBrit

If the results are confirmed, then a lot of very smart people, are going to have to do some furious work with a supercomputer and a blackboard to explain the presence of this new force, and its mechanical interaction with the known universe, and the other theories which currently dictate our understanding of it.

Well, yes, but you make it sound as if they’re going to be embarrassed about it, and scurrying to cover up their ignorance. A lot of lay people like to think scientists are like that, because such frailty makes them seem more human and their work less intimidating and awe-inspiring. Well, scientists are human and fallible, obviously, but nothing in the world is going to make their work less intellectually formidable than it is.

Apart from a few people who have tied themselves to this or that aspect of the Standard Model, however, the main reaction in the physics community to the discovery of a hitherto undreamed-of fundamental particle is going to be one of unrestrained, delighted excitement. The joy of seeing the idols toppled! New work to do! More to find out! More to know! And a contest to see who can get there first, with prizes – Nobel prizes! Not to mention various other rewards, including fame, careers, professorships, TV appearances, meetings with heads of state and lucrative popular book and TV deals. Of course, these rewards will only be won by a handful of people, but that only makes them more desirable.

To rely solely on the mathematical theory behind current thinking on physics, is in my opinion similar to being given a drivers licence purely based on a theory examination, rather than using practical training to ensure the quality of potential road users.

Sure, which is why experimental proof is constantly being sought for all postulates in physics.

That in mind, I believe that in order to create better forms of energy production, space travel and exploration equipment, and improve our understanding of the universe, this sort of work is essential.

No need to be so pragmatic. The reward of understanding is alone sufficient.

reply to post by Astyanax


Please do not mistake my references to the potential benifits to mankind arising from the current work being done around the world in this feild, for an inability to appreciate understanding for its own sake. The world would perhaps be a better place if such works were under way without the constant need to justify themselves by providing a service other than knowledge.

However, I also realise that in this world we live in, justifications are always required by those who fund these projects, potential benifits weighed, costs examined, and these things genuinely DO get in the way. My reference to the practical benifits was more like an expression of satisfaction , because even to a layperson like myself, I can see plainly that the fact that the results which are comming out will be benificial to us if the new information can be interpreted correctly, which means funding for these works will be almost bullet proofed by the time the data becomes influential in the daily lives of every being on the planet.

Realisticaly , a potentialy advantageous discovery, means a more reliable project in terms of financial. stability.

I'm excited about this... plain and simple.

These types of things are really rare. Assuming it's real, it might not sit that far outside of the Standard Model. Sometimes a few basic tweaks can be made without having to start over from scratch, such as making better generalizations.

For example: Most people know about the quadratic equation. But most people don't know that you can look at it from a higher dimension and have quadratic surfaces. It doesn't make the quadratic equation wrong, it just shows that it is part of a larger theory.

Quadratic Surfaces

Anyway, I have a friend who works in particle physics. I'm trying to see if he's heard much talk about it... legitimate talk, that is.

reply to post by Protector


thank you
if you could get an explination of what the detection
could be i would really like that

xploder