Bad Judge? Can anyone fill me in on my legal rights here?

Originally posted by xxcalbier
first of all if she says she has a order did you see it??
you say she doesnt how do you know that??
as for the dog america sue me sue you country.
Ok so she had a problem in life and left her dog with you thinking ill never be able to keep the dog i love so much so ill give the dog to my friend who i trust to take care of it.
Hey great person alest she didnt dump it in a pound.
anyway so she comes to find ou GREAT NEWS i can take care of my dog who is like part of the family after all.
ok so she comes back and ask can i have my dog back??
and you say in your greed NO NOT UNLESS YOU PAY ME FOR THE UP KEEP.
7 months hu?? up keep ?? what 5 pound bag of food a week?? or even lets say ten at 6$ per week
this is all the up keep a dog requires we BOTH KNOW THAT . please dont start saying you payed 10k for shots and vet bills save your self we all know that would be bull as well .
all shots needed for a dog IN PUPPY STAGE come under 25$
so save it ok so 6$ a week for 7 months . PS this is BIG dog by the way.a small dog would be half .
anyway 6 x 30 weeks thats o my 180$ wow pay me you PAY ME NOW .
you are a greedy person who cares not about the dog but about how much you can squeze this person for .
she loves that dog and you cry over a few bucks in dog food??? you should be ashamed of your self .
But i degress american is as american does greeed GIVE ME MONEY MONEY MONEY even if i have to step on your love to get it.

Really? Wow, I guess you must be important.

You think that I should freely give up my time AND money to take care of the pet for which you refuse to take responsibility for. All the person asked for was 7 months room and board, and medical bills if accrued.

YOU are the greedy one. YOU want everything given to you for free (in this post at least). YOU should be ashamed.

Once the divorce is finalized, who is to say that she won't have the dog put down? Just out of spite.

reply to post by drew1749


She probably has the court order that was served to her, to give the dog back to her husband (soon to be ex). Until they show up at your door, Ignore them. And yes, Animals are included in a lot of divorces and if she has the dog (meaning the husband doesnt and wants it) Until she gives it to him the papers will not be finailized. HTH!!! GL!

reply to post by kro32

It would come down to the judge actually. It is her property if she has proof of it no matter the time limit as she could say you were just watching it, yes even for a year. However a judge will look at the evidence such as what you've done for the dog compared to her, the amount of time you've had it, the expense you've incurred (the main one here), and he will more than likely award it to you. If she has inquired about the dog frequentely or sent money to help you pay for it, set up vet apps. and stuff like that than she would more than likely get it in that situation. Regardless you can either wait until she makes the next step if she's not bluffing or take it to court yourself if you wish to be rid of her.

She hasn't sent anything to us except for phone calls of evilness.

Here is something I think would apply here:

A gift, in the law of property, is the voluntary transfer of property from one person (the donor or grantor) to another (the donee or grantee) without full valuable consideration. In order for a gift to be legally effective, the donor must have intended to give the gift to the donee (donative intent), and the gift must actually be delivered to and accepted by the donee. Gifts can be either: lifetime gifts (inter vivos gift, donatio inter vivos) - a gift of a present or future interest made and delivered in the donor's lifetime; or deathbed gifts (gift causa mortis, donatio mortis causa) - a future gift made in expectation of the donor's imminent death. A gift causa mortis is not effective unless the donor actually dies of the impending peril that he or she had contemplated when making the gift, i.e. these gifts can only be made when the donor is in a terminable condition.

Isn't it a gift? She had no intention of wanting it back at the time. She GAVE the dog to us.

reply to post by drew1749


If this vindictive bimbo can't show you court papers, I would venture that she also could not show you the reciept purchasing the dog or vet bills. Call her bluff.

reply to post by Britx


I've always said that ATS is a great site. All of you are very helpful. Please keep giving me good advice guys. Thank you.

Right now I'm waiting for the next step. The Sheriffs Department said that if she had papers they would usually know about it and have acted by now. They haven't. So she's either insane or she contacted the city police...or does it make no difference?

Ok, so there is no "finders keepers" law and the old myth of 'possession is 9/10 of the law" is bogus as well.
So with that said, if you have proof that she gifted the dog, like vet bills, collars, pictures with maybe date stamps and some people that will testify in court that the dog has been in your house since X/X/XX date, you have more then her.
Sounds like she gave the dog away as a low blow to the husband she is divorcing and now he wants the dog back. But, most states have common property laws, which gives either person the right to sell and/or give away personal items, except things that can be proven to have been owned before the relationship started.

Your solution is 2 fold.
1) If there is no court order that you have seen, then there is no court order. Further more, if there is, you will be served on that order.
2) File a restraining order or no contact order and have her served.

Be prepared for push back. If you think it is worth it, then fight the good fight.

If it is more then what it is worth, give the dog back.

I hope all reading this learn to always have paperwork to backup interactions like this.

During my divorce proceedings my husband made claim to some gemstones that I had sold. The judge "ordered" me to get the buyer to return them and hand them over to my X. I was unable to do that and the order disappeared.

I do not believe that the judge had any authority over you any more than my judge did over the owner of my previously disposed of items.

Originally posted by drew1749
reply to post by kro32

 

It would come down to the judge actually. It is her property if she has proof of it no matter the time limit as she could say you were just watching it, yes even for a year. However a judge will look at the evidence such as what you've done for the dog compared to her, the amount of time you've had it, the expense you've incurred (the main one here), and he will more than likely award it to you. If she has inquired about the dog frequentely or sent money to help you pay for it, set up vet apps. and stuff like that than she would more than likely get it in that situation. Regardless you can either wait until she makes the next step if she's not bluffing or take it to court yourself if you wish to be rid of her.

She hasn't sent anything to us except for phone calls of evilness.

Here is something I think would apply here:

A gift, in the law of property, is the voluntary transfer of property from one person (the donor or grantor) to another (the donee or grantee) without full valuable consideration. In order for a gift to be legally effective, the donor must have intended to give the gift to the donee (donative intent), and the gift must actually be delivered to and accepted by the donee. Gifts can be either: lifetime gifts (inter vivos gift, donatio inter vivos) - a gift of a present or future interest made and delivered in the donor's lifetime; or deathbed gifts (gift causa mortis, donatio mortis causa) - a future gift made in expectation of the donor's imminent death. A gift causa mortis is not effective unless the donor actually dies of the impending peril that he or she had contemplated when making the gift, i.e. these gifts can only be made when the donor is in a terminable condition.

Isn't it a gift? She had no intention of wanting it back at the time. She GAVE the dog to us.

An animal needs further expense to maintain so while it is considered property the gift clause is a gray area at best and not legally binding in the case of animals. It is more up to the judge to decide the where the animal would receive the best care.

reply to post by macman


As one 'ol military guy to another. I HATE PAPERWORK!, but it does have its advantages.



You definitely speak the truth, if either party has no paper trail; it comes down to a "he said she said" conflict.

My ex fiancé did not want our dog, and I knew that once I moved out, I would not be able to care for him unfortunately,(Being in the Army and all), so I waited until her son came home who had quite the bond with the dog and told her, "OK, you can keep the dog". He's an 'ol man now and still doing well. And I still miss his goofy ways. Oh well, such is life. It ended up working out for the better.

Originally posted by drew1749

Originally posted by Bee2010
She needs it back to properly get divorced??

This makes no sense to me? Even if it were true, why can you not help her out so she can get her divorce finalised?

It was like her husbands dog. Its a long story.

He needs it back.They don't care for the dog. They just need their property in order before they finalize the divorce papers. Isn't that how it works?

This is a mess. This girl is a nut and it's horrible.

I vote ignore her. If she had a court order surely she would have you officially served. Until that occurs - she don't exist.

reply to post by drew1749


Right....honestly I think she's bluffing...I think you have nothing to worry about. Still, contact the police and/or lawyer...It's good to have paperwork done just in case she tries to do something illegal like steal the dog, or whatever...even if all it is, is the police officer taking some notes. If anything it will come down to her word against yours...and there are possession laws, but I don't know the extant of them personally...I think they very a bit from place to place. If anything she basically abandoned the dog, and you've taken ownership. Just handle it right...contact the authorities. Explain the situation, and you will likely have nothing to worry about. On a scale of 1 to 10...I'd rate this about 1.5 as far as how worried I'd be that it's gonna cause you any real headache.

reply to post by drew1749


where to begin? Your topic insinuates there is a bad judge involved. You have no idea if there is a judge, just her saying she has a court order. You ask if it's illegal to say you have a court order when you don't. Are you kidding? Free speech and all that - anyone can say anything they want, there's no law against claiming to have a court order. What you need to concern yourself with is simply this: is there a court order. You can certainly ask to see it, but I'd ask for the attorney's name and avoid talking directly to dog lady if you can. Or you can call the court in the jurisdiction in which she lives.

You're making yourself crazy when all you have to do is ask one question: may I see the court order.

If you see one, do what it says or get your own attorney.

There's no conspiracy here - just you getting all worked up over something or nothing. People on the internet can't help you - all the "advice" you'll get here means nothing until you resolve the basic question - is there a court order and what does it say.

Don't blame this on a bad judge when you have no idea what's going on.

Originally posted by xxcalbier
first of all if she says she has a order did you see it??
you say she doesnt how do you know that??
as for the dog america sue me sue you country.
Ok so she had a problem in life and left her dog with you thinking ill never be able to keep the dog i love so much so ill give the dog to my friend who i trust to take care of it.
Hey great person alest she didnt dump it in a pound.
anyway so she comes to find ou GREAT NEWS i can take care of my dog who is like part of the family after all.
ok so she comes back and ask can i have my dog back??
and you say in your greed NO NOT UNLESS YOU PAY ME FOR THE UP KEEP.
7 months hu?? up keep ?? what 5 pound bag of food a week?? or even lets say ten at 6$ per week
this is all the up keep a dog requires we BOTH KNOW THAT . please dont start saying you payed 10k for shots and vet bills save your self we all know that would be bull as well .
all shots needed for a dog IN PUPPY STAGE come under 25$
so save it ok so 6$ a week for 7 months . PS this is BIG dog by the way.a small dog would be half .
anyway 6 x 30 weeks thats o my 180$ wow pay me you PAY ME NOW .
you are a greedy person who cares not about the dog but about how much you can squeze this person for .
she loves that dog and you cry over a few bucks in dog food??? you should be ashamed of your self .
But i degress american is as american does greeed GIVE ME MONEY MONEY MONEY even if i have to step on your love to get it.

Can I have the brain cells back that were burned off trying to read that nonsense?

And no, I'm not saying just because your English is awful. It was mind-numbing, seriously. You don't even glance over the fact that anyone who has a dog for 7 months is probably pretty attached to it themselves. Nor do you take into account the other details provided, including the original owner deciding they didn't want it anymore - which is fairly big. Rather, you decided to twist the account to suit what is clearly a great deal of pent-up rage toward Americans. We get it. You don't like Yanks. That makes you soooo unique and on the edge. You're a real rebel - and not the least bit prejudiced, either.

OP, good luck. You are clearly not in the wrong here, provided the facts you presented were indeed that. I don't see anything greedy about asking to be repaid for the care provided. Pets can be fairly expensive, regardless of what some might think. I'm of the camp that believes you should by no means return the poor beast unless compelled by police.

Ask the Dog...

I heard the Germans were teaching Dogs to talk.

You are on the right track.

Ignore idle threats.

OK, well first let me say I'm not a lawyer, but it is possible that her claim is legit. If I'm understanding you right, the dog was really her husband's, they broke up and she gave it to you. It's quite possible that she did not have her husband's consent to do give it to you, she probably did it to spite him. If in court he gave sufficient evidence to the judge that the dog was his, the judge may very well have made it part of the divorce settlement that she was to return the dog to him. If she wished to object to it, she would have to have filed an immediate "compulsory cross-complaint". Based on your comments it sounds like she did not, but rather, that she agreed to return the dog. If this is the case then you can ask to see the paperwork, if she produces it you really have no option but to turn the dog over, otherwise she or her husband can call the police and have them visit you to retrieve the dog. Unfortunately you have no say in the matter if it was part of the divorce settlement because technically you obtained the dog through her illegal act (she gave you property that belonged to her husband). All you can do is sue her for the money you've spent caring for the dog, and it's doubtful that would be worth your time. Sorry the news isn't good, but I wish you the best.

reply to post by drew1749


Im not familiar with US law but I just want to wish you good luck! Ive had dogs all my life and I know how quickly they become part of the family unit and its very unfair to take the dog away from a loving home when she obviously didnt care enough to keeo the dog before. What breed is it? It may be that she has realised that she can sell it for a couple hundred bucks and just wantd to do that?

You could have said that it ran away if you wana be cheeky about it as well then what can she say?

reply to post by xxcalbier

Have you ever taken a pet in? 7 months is a long time. I almost see what you are saying, but a person can become very attached to a pet in 7 months. I have only had my newest puppies for 5 days and I would not give them up. Get more facts about the situation before hammering someone. Not all of us are sue happy.

Originally posted by drew1749
reply to post by SirMike

 

Ask her to see the order .. then verify its legit .. then inquire why you were not summoned to court to contest it in the first place. I think shes bluffing because if she did have an order, the cops would habe come to enforce it by now.

Thanks for the help I will definitively do this. The Sheriff Department will probably be showing up soon to like chill and make sure she doesn't try to steal our dog.

I'm thinking she's lieing also because when we asked she said "The judge is just telling me this. This is what I want to do. I don't need to see your letter." (We wrote a letter months ago in response to her original stupid claim)

She doesn't need to see our papers? Weird to me.

I don't believe it's possible for a Judge to issue a Court Order against you and not send you a copy of it. It just doesn't make sense to me. Nor do I believe a court will issue an order against you without hearing your side of the story. You can't just walk into a courthouse and demand a judge issue a court order against someone. It doesn't work like that.

If the order from a court states that you must undertake certain actions, then it's the court's responsibility to make you aware of that order. If they don't, how can you be expected to know about it? A court does NOT rely on a third party to pass on it's instructions.

If she does produce some kind of document, investigate it thoroughly and check it out with the court which allegedly issued the order. This sounds like BS but I don't know how far she would go in trying to deceive you, perhaps with false documentation.

I don't believe her story. It just doesn't make sense.

Re the divorce story - you could ask to communicate with the husband directly about the dog. If he doesn't care about it he might be quite happy for you to keep it. Don't rely on anything she is telling you. Check every single thing out.

I would move to another country and tell her the dog died.

Buy a postcard for 50cents and mail her a card saying your still upset,but fortunatly the dog had puppies,and you smuggled one out of the Country..and when you get back..she'll be surprised at the resemblence.

Find someone on Facebook in a foriegn country,Friend them.. send them a prewritten postcard.. ..mail them the card and have them get a postmark on the card.

Take the postmarked postcard to a sherriff. Present it...

New Dog...New Life for everyone..

Wow that was easy.. anything else?

Or just ignore her and the drama until you have a court document. I like my idea better.

I'm not an attorney, but I know a couple. So here are two things:

1) You and she had a verbal contract for you to accept permanent possession of the dog. A verbal contract is as legal and binding as a written one.

2) She doesn't have a court order, unless she is a representative of the court (an attorney, a constable, sheriff's deputy, etc). A court order is handed over to a representative of the court to be served to whomever it was written for.

If, though, what happened was that the dog was part of the divorce agreement, then it could get murky. If she gave her ex-husband's dog to you, it wasn't hers to give in the first place and you will likely have to give it up. You can ask for him to pay you for the time and money, but he likely won't be compelled legally to pay.

However, if the dog was given to you before the divorce was final, and before the owners began living separately, the dog is yours because it was jointly owned. If you are ordered by the court to give up the dog, they can require that the new owner pays you a fair amount for the time that you kept it. Hope it goes well for you.

/TOA