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Outrageous corruption in Quebec!

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posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 09:36 AM
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Most of the discussion on this forum tends to be focused on political issues in America, but I wanted to bring to everyone's attention a fairly glaring example of political corruption that is being glossed over in Quebec.

As some of you may know, once upon a time Quebec City had an NHL hockey team, which was ultimately relocated to Colorado to become the Avalanche. This was due to consistent losses and a lack of corporate sponsors. The owner was just losing too much money, and so the team was moved to a different market. Happens all the time in pro sports, and while it sucks for the fans, it's a reality that small markets need to deal with.

Over the last 5 years there has been a big push to bring an NHL team back to Quebec City. The market has grown, with a bigger population and more of a corporate presence than before. There are several interest groups in Quebec City that are strongly pushing for an NHL team to return to the city, and this has been amplified by the fact that Atlanta is being relocated to Winnipeg (a city that also had an NHL team taken from them).

Now, the NHL is very hesitant to relocate another struggling American market for fears of damaging their image, and because they have already invested so much in developping hockey in the southern USA. First and foremost, they say, Quebec City needs an arena that is modern and suitable for an NHL team today.

Well, no problem, you'd figure. Right? Potential team owners can fund the building of a new arena to attract a major league sports team to their town. This is typically how things go.

Cue Quebecor, one of the largest media groups in Canada. They are a massive corporation and have been pushing for a team in Quebec City. They have been dying to get the TV rights to the Montreal Canadiens but have been unsuccessful. And when the Canadiens were for sale, it was rumoured that the head of Quebecor was a major player to buy the team before it was ultimately sold to the Molson family.

Now Quebecor has stepped forward to buy an NHL team and build a new arena for them so they can be relocated to Quebec City. The NHL hasn't yet confirmed or denied the feasibility of moving a 2nd team to Quebec, but has said a new arena is the first step before they can talk about it.

Here is where things get messy. As some of you may know, hockey is a huge part of the culture here in Quebec, and politicians often use hockey related topics to gain favour during elections. The mayor of Quebec City has been strongly pushing for the construction of a new arena and it's obvious that he would love to have his legacy be that of the man who helped bring hockey back to to the city. Quebecor has come forward with a proposal to use private and public money to help build this new arena.

This isn't a new concept in Canada, though using provincial and federal tax dollars to build a sports arena for one small city is often a touchy subject. Outside of Quebec City, most feel that any private owner of the team should be the one to fund construction of a new arena. Quebec City isn't exactly close to the border, and will not regularly attract tourists from the US to come watch hockey. The benefit of such a project would be focused on Quebec City and would not directly affect the other provinces where a lot of the money would be coming from.

Typically, anything involving public money must be transparent and must be offered to all potential bidders before anything is awarded. Quebecor is asking the government to automatically award them the contract for building the new arena while bypassing the typical process of accepting all bids, and to also close finances on the contruction of the new arena. They are not asking for a specific amount of money...They are asking for 50% of the cost. They have estimates, but by their own accord these estimates could be off by 75%. They are ultimately asking the government to fund their private contruction project without any other interested parties being allowed to campaign. Even worse, they are asking the government to close the finances of this project so that nobody can see what is going on.

You may remember than not too long ago, we had an election in Canada when the Prime Minister was accused of something very similar.

This entire situation is illegal of course. But the Quebec City government is now trying to rush a bill through the national assembly (Quebec's version of Congress) that would make this legal.

Oh, I forgot to mention. The government is trying to justify this by saying they would charge Quebecor rent when the arena is built. However, the bill has a provision in it saying that if the venture is NOT profitable, no rent will be charged.

We basically have private corporations dipping into taxpayers' money to build what is ultimately an ego boost for a number of already extremely rich people. They have no need for public money in this case. And this is all happening right in front of our eyes. Nobody is trying to hide anything...They are very open with what they are trying to do.

No outrage, no objection. People just don't care enough to speak out. This is because the province of Quebec has been doing this for years. It is one of the most corrupt states/provinces in North America, from the municipal level to the provincial level. People just accept it now, even though it's no secret within the province. They actually make jokes about how the mafia is running Montreal (which it is and has been doing for a long time). The MAYOR of Montreal even came out and said it. We are a province that has been conditioned to believe that corruption in politics is the norm, and we are happily dolling out our tax dollars, especially since it is something hockey related.

Does this not seem completely outrageous to anyone else but me???




posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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The whole NHL is outrageous to me.
Taking hockey out of Canada to an American market that doesn't care or love hockey like we do???
WTH???
Pheonix,Atlanta???
Seriously???

I do agree that Montreal is run by the mob and/or bikers and the corruption is very rampant.

Maybe thats the reason they gave Winnipeg a team before Quebec??

I hope Quebec gets their team as well but the shady politics might scare people off.

The sad thing is that even the childrens aid society is outsourced to people for profits so I don't think its just Quebec thats corrupt,but the rest of Canada as well.

I am pushing for you guys...hockey belongs in Canada!!



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 10:13 AM
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While I completely understand and respect your point of view, I do not totally agree with it. You see, it doesn't really matter how much money will be spent by the Governments. With the tax return from the new businesses booming and the restaurants and new jobs and rental of the adjacent sport complex. You seem to be thinking with a liberal mind...Think business development, job creation, tourist attraction, souvenirs, taxes......Like Elvis Gratton keeps saying "Tink big Sti"

Bring the Nordiques back. Period !



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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C'est dla criss de marde

I used to work for Quebecor, they own pretty much everything in Quebec. They have the newspapers, they have the tv stations, radio stations, internet sites, movie production, telecommunications companies, restaurants, schools...

Quebecor makes, or breaks artists. People tell me all the time : Tu devrais aller a Star Academie!!
( You should go to "Quebec Idol") You guys can listen to my music under my comment...
I'm not going to be a Quebecor puppet

Big big points for taking sides with hockey in Quebec when it has to do with elections, it's ridiculous. I like hockey and all, but to finance it with tax money? Hell no.

Quebecor has sooooo much money and they have immense grasp on the media. They have so much power, they could ask the population to go ask the government to finance their stadium in Quebec City and people would be happy...

It's totally sick.

Oh and, Montreal IS run by the mafia, well most of it.
From my opinion, they are separated from TPTB and they are not totally evil. Some gangs are much worst, even the Hells Angels are worst. The Hells, the Mafia...they all have elected officials in Quebec, the corruption is amazing.

In most cities, you can stroll in the street smoking a blunt. But they won't legalize it because the Hells make too much money out of it. If someone is "not allowed" to grow "legal" weed, well they send the police over and take the weed...they say they burn it, but I'm sure most of it goes in the Hells Angels hands.

"Legal" weed is usually crap too.

Thank god we got hockey and some of the worlds most beautiful women to get us by in this corrupted province!



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by Fox Molder
While I completely understand and respect your point of view, I do not totally agree with it. You see, it doesn't really matter how much money will be spent by the Governments. With the tax return from the new businesses booming and the restaurants and new jobs and rental of the adjacent sport complex. You seem to be thinking with a liberal mind...Think business development, job creation, tourist attraction, souvenirs, taxes......Like Elvis Gratton keeps saying "Tink big Sti"

Bring the Nordiques back. Period !


Oh yeah, that's like inviting foreign companies to come cut down our woods, destroy it's rivers and annihilate it's life just for the sake of making jobs. Those companies are almost without taxes to pay and they don't even spend their profit in Quebec. It's bs.

It's like we get half of socialism, but only the bad part!



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Almost the same thing, happening on a smaller scale in Regina SK - the mayor wants to leave a legacy.
Even after the actual citizens voted down a new arena, as there is much more that is deemed relevant to spend tax payers' dollars on.

Oh yes - all the cheap-paying jobs, ohmy can hardly wait.

The players are paid far too much in salary - when I asked when that started in a conversation, I was told "ask Bobby Hull".

Bobby may have wanted fair wages, but the millions of dollars now paid to hockey "celebs" is disgruntling, and has taken the gloss off the sport for more than I thought would have--

Gotta watch those public-private partnerships - plenty of deals done behind closed doors.
With our money.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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Its about the same here in Alberta and BC is no better tho here people are so oblivious to it its scary just a bunch of blank eyed sheeple....



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by User8911
 


You are comparing apples and oranges ! Or...Hockey pucks to tennis balls...LOL

The players salaries are TAXABLE, the concession stands are RENTED, the new stadium is a "PPP" meaning a private, public partnership. the split is 50/50 no matter the cost, in the end the province will win with tax revenues, Quebecor wins with TV rights and Tax exemptions and the Mafia wins through all the construction contracts...lol

You can say what you will about Mayor Régis Labeaume but he gets sh!t done, period !
And trust me....The city of Quebec as well as the Province of Quebec will come out of this as winners, I am absolutely sure about it.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by User8911
C'est dla criss de marde



Oui criss, mais c'est de la marde qui pue pas ! Pis en plus la moitier vien d'une entreprise priver!!!! So who cares how much Quebecor spends on it....it's still 50% less tax money!



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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I want no more of my tax dollars hitting quebec when the have nots out east start putting money back in the economy then you can build your rink until then do it privately like Aurther Griffiths had too here in Van, you get enough of our taxpayer dollars as transfer payments. Send those who don't wanna be part of Canada no more of our money, they get enough as it is.Between the natives and quebec Im not sure who pays less and gets more, just mind boggling.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by SaneThinking
 

The tax money is coming from the PROVINCIAL POCKET...Now get that knot out of you suspenders and chill!!!

BC is no better than Quebec when it comes to Federal money hand outs so.....



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Fox Molder
 


ours go to highways,bridges, infastructure, not a feel good arena project for the unemployed artists in quebec, who can't pull there heads outta there asses long enough to realize that they are still part of Canada. What with there language rules, scams a plenty, ass backwards seperatist politics, why should anyone west of the Hudson give two sh*ts, I'd take a team in Regina before Quebec gets another canadian red cent. At least Saskatchewan has resources to prop up the GDP and at least refund what money they got in the long run.....whats quebec got??? thats right more celein dion and other sh*t no one west of the hudson understands



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by SaneThinking
 


Oh Geezuss H fooking Christ...Is it me or am I getting a little resentment from you toward Ma Province et mon héritage ? I suggest that you go back to the books, learn how to write properly when you do so in public and then if you are up to it, read up on international trade agreements, Canadian trade policies, the Countries GDP and individual provincial GDPs and you will notice something quite astonishing....Quebec sit quite well in the GDP departement. Oh and as for that wonderful recession we just went through here AU QUÉBEC, it over, the provincial budget is equalizing, can's say that about any other province in Canada right now!

Quebec city and it's people want a hockey team, the mayor is willing to GIVE city land to have it built, Quebecor ( PRIVATE company) is willing to spent 50% of the total cost for building the arena and the PROVINCIAL Government is also willing to fork out 50% of the building cost BUT reserves the right to RENT the arena for any and all other venues, keeps the concession stands as public funding revenues, builds a new sports PUBLIC complex annexed to the arena for the population to use.....I SEE NONE OF YOU PRECIOUS FEDERAL MONEY HERE !!!

Now if you don't understand what a PPP is I won't hold it against you or your opinions, everyone has the right to an opinion but it doesn't mean that you are the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to speaking about something completely across the country that you know absolutely nothing about and judging an entire population based on a minority of dais population. Now get your head out of your butt and please refrain from making derogatory comments on the populace of Quebec.
Merci et passe une excellente journée !



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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Oh and PS...Read this:

tvanouvelles.ca...



Or can you actually read French????



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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this topic is just going to start more french vs English as we see so far. All levels of gov't are corrupt, what makes you think they aren't? Adscam, G20 security tab, Paul Martin skipping taxes, Harper re electing failed members... etc

Stop turning this into an overzealous pride thing and therefore making it east vs west. Corruption is corruption. That made not much sense but whatever lol. I like poutine, but not asbestos

edit on 2-6-2011 by dl2one because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Fox Molder
 


well aware of 3 P's paying tolls on bridges till I die, as well I should hope with nearly double the population your ass backwards province can attain 30% higher GDP than BC yet still be among the worse for per capita in Canada. Good on ya. All I'm saying is we gave ad scam and well over 750 million to the leaches there. We have made happy the frenchies each election as a way to buy votes even though they don't wanna be here, and ward the separation off. Sick of hand outs for the whiners, theres 28 million other Canadians who could care less weather the blue and white ever skate again. There the same 28 million who want no part of the separatists arena



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Fox Molder
Oh Geezuss H fooking Christ...Is it me or am I getting a little resentment from you toward Ma Province et mon héritage ? I suggest that you go back to the books, learn how to write properly when you do so in public and then if you are up to it, read up on international trade agreements, Canadian trade policies, the Countries GDP and individual provincial GDPs and you will notice something quite astonishing....Quebec sit quite well in the GDP departement. Oh and as for that wonderful recession we just went through here AU QUÉBEC, it over, the provincial budget is equalizing, can's say that about any other province in Canada right now!


I'm not quite sure how they plan to make a $3.8 Billion dollar deficit disappear inside of 2-3 years, but good on them if they can.

That being said, no province can pay for anything with provincial funds only. No province. Not Alberta, not Quebec, none.

It is how our system is designed. All serious money goes to feds first and gets doled out from there. It is how the federal government maintains control over the provinces.

As for GDP's...well if you run total GDP, Quebec is not bad ($303,747,000)...until you factor in their population size (approx 8 million) which leaves a GDP / capita of $39,000/person give or take a couple hundred dollars. This is well below the national average of $48,000/person from across Canada.

Quebec is getting better, but they have a very long road with many battles to go.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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And all I'm saying is that it's none of the other Provinces fooking business if Quebec spends PROVINCIAL and MUNICIPAL moneys on an arena for an NHL team. NONE of the funding is coming from the FEDERAL bracket.

As for the language thing...Hell I don't care, I'm fluently bilingual, aboriginal Anglophone mother and French Québécois Father....so let's stop talking French vs English, it's completely ridiculous and way off subject.

This is about an NHL team in the City of Quebec, with a population willing to have their municipal taxes raised to fund 50% of the building. The other 50% is from a PRIVATE investor...PRIVATE meaning no PUBLIC money....Well...My cable bill, telephone bill and internet bill might go up by a couple of pennies because they are all owned by Québecor but .....Who cares....Really....What is it to the rest of Canada....It's really none of your business when you think about it!



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by DrumsRfun
The whole NHL is outrageous to me.
Taking hockey out of Canada to an American market that doesn't care or love hockey like we do???
WTH???
Pheonix,Atlanta???
Seriously???

I do agree that Montreal is run by the mob and/or bikers and the corruption is very rampant.

Maybe thats the reason they gave Winnipeg a team before Quebec??

I hope Quebec gets their team as well but the shady politics might scare people off.

The sad thing is that even the childrens aid society is outsourced to people for profits so I don't think its just Quebec thats corrupt,but the rest of Canada as well.

I am pushing for you guys...hockey belongs in Canada!!




Lets get one thing straight, The Nordiques were NOT "taken" from your fans, the team left to find better fans. Couldn't have been a horrible team if the won the friggin stanley their first season here in Co.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Fox Molder
And all I'm saying is that it's none of the other Provinces fooking business if Quebec spends PROVINCIAL and MUNICIPAL moneys on an arena for an NHL team. NONE of the funding is coming from the FEDERAL bracket.

As for the language thing...Hell I don't care, I'm fluently bilingual, aboriginal Anglophone mother and French Québécois Father....so let's stop talking French vs English, it's completely ridiculous and way off subject.

This is about an NHL team in the City of Quebec, with a population willing to have their municipal taxes raised to fund 50% of the building. The other 50% is from a PRIVATE investor...PRIVATE meaning no PUBLIC money....Well...My cable bill, telephone bill and internet bill might go up by a couple of pennies because they are all owned by Québecor but .....Who cares....Really....What is it to the rest of Canada....It's really none of your business when you think about it!


Wait a cotton-pickin minute here dude. Did you really just type that? 20 words after you said half of it was to be paid by raising taxes you say "no PUBLIC money".... Really?



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