Even you can understand the QUANTUM world!

This thought came about after watching the movie" Holographic Universe", its a pretty cool movie if you havn't seen it yet. So one of the rocks supporting quantum physics, is the Double slit experiment seen below.
www.youtube.com...
So the experiment is that if you fire a single photon at a board with 2 long slits in it, and record the results of where it hit on a board behind the slits. The results are if you do not observe the phontons passing throught the slits, they will show up as a wave patturn on the back board. But if you observe the slits to see which one the photons go through, the result will be that they act like a partical and only show up behind the 2 slits. Thats cool in itself. So the idea is if you do not observe the experiment the phonton has the capability to be in any position at any given time, but the instant you observe, the phonton only shows up in a certain spot.
So alot of people dont like science that they cant prove themselves, the "I'll believe it when I see it" mentality. So guess what?! I have a way for you to see this in action, without the insanly expensive and complicated photon shooter. Its simple, BREATHING. Breathing is under control of your sub-concious which many believe works on the quantum level. You breath in an out all day every day and for the most part you are unaware of this action, do to its automative nature. But even though its automatic, the second you "observe" your breathing, its under your concious control and no longer automatic until you stop "observing" it. So your lungs can be at any given position, at any given time until you observe them. Then there is a definite position at a given time.

So just remember, your brain is your quantum world generator.

I love this stuff.

You can't separate the event from the observer.
I like your lung analogy, interesting!

It works the same with other bodily organs, much to our chargrin. The moment I began observing my...well, never mind.

It works the same with other bodily organs, much to our chargrin. The moment I began observing my...well, never mind.

haha! nice! If you can control subconcious/automatic bodily functions by mere observation, just think of what else in the world that is change by you just observing it. It brings to mind the old question of if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound? hmmmm... most would say ofcourse it does, silly. But the further you delve into quantum science the more you actually start to question what the answer actually is.

reply to post by Talltexxxan

Clever.

Now try doing the same with your heart.

What happened?

Now try doing the same with your heart.

Well actually there have been many studies about people controling there own heart beats. (dont have the time to find the link.)
We can all conciously control our own heart beats, just how well you can do it is the issue. I freaked my wife out one night when she was laying on my chest. I asked her if she could here my heart beat. she said, yes. Then i told her how bout now. and i made it skip for a beat. Belivee it or not we have control of our entire body. just a matter of how well we can do it.

reply to post by Talltexxxan


Thank you for that wonderful moment of zen!

Originally posted by TalltexxxanI have a way for you to see this in action, without the insanly expensive and complicated photon shooter. Its simple, BREATHING. Breathing is under control of your sub-concious which many believe works on the quantum level.

The bolded text is where the argument (not the lung!) collapses. In syllogism form:

P1 - Breathing is a sub-conscious activity.
P2 - Sub-conscious activities MIGHT "work on the quantum level".
C- Breathing is a good model of "the quantum world".

The problem is P2, because "which many believe" is not a fact but an idea, and one that is not based in science or theory but mere speculation. The conclusion hinges on whether P2 is true, and until it is proved by experimentation to be true, the conclusion is likewise a speculation and nothing more.

All of which is to say, "apples and oranges". :-)

~Sabertruth~ I know exactly what ya mean. As I was writing that, I knew someone was gonna jump on it. I wish I had the time to do alot more research on it and provide links. Im not one of those ATS members that has the time to make those super long post containing outside info supporting every single statement they make. I really wish I did, but I dont. sorry sabertruth, I have failed you.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
~Sabertruth~ I know exactly what ya mean. As I was writing that, I knew someone was gonna jump on it. I wish I had the time to do alot more research on it and provide links. Im not one of those ATS members that has the time to make those super long post containing outside info supporting every single statement they make. I really wish I did, but I dont. sorry sabertruth, I have failed you.

Aw, don't take it so hard... nothing personal. But you have to admit: claiming to have a cheap and simple way to teach others about quantum theory opens you up to more scrutiny than if you had just said "Would this be a good illustration?"

Sabertruth~
Yeah your right, I just wanted to get the topic out there so people can discuss the idea and the anology. There is sooooooo much information on the subject that it would be near impossibe to link it all. but I will deffently keep that in mind for future threads. Thanks

So back to the topic...... Quantum phisics is badass and we need alot more critical/free thinkers talking about the subject. Because afterall ,science is only a bi-product from the thoughts and ideas of ordinary people like you or I.

~much love~

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
So back to the topic...... Quantum phisics is badass and we need alot more critical/free thinkers talking about the subject. Because afterall ,science is only a bi-product from the thoughts and ideas of ordinary people like you or I.

Have you seen this short video?

The crux is at the 7:45 mark: "Quantum mechanics and general relativity are totally incompatible". What that tells me is that when you pursue highly theoretical physics and math to their logical conclusions, they clash so hard with observable reality that it becomes impossible to deny their inability to fully describe the real world. Quantum theory may be fascinating, but it may also be pure fantasy. Having one possible theory to explain what we see is not in the same league as having an undeniable proof.

So I would just advise that no matter how tight a theory looks on paper, it has to be "real" or it isn't empirical science at all. Another interesting view of this can be found at Common Sense Science, which proposes models that don't suffer from the inherent contradictions of quantum theory. The truly open-minded scientist will have to admit the limitations of quantum theory and that other viable theories do exist.

ADDED: This page in particular has implications touching on a very wide range of ideas being discussed here at ATS, from science to religion to the metaphysical.

Yeah Ive seen that video, gotta love some Dr. Kaku!!
I forgot who said it. but he was along the lines of some yogi master. He said" in seeking the infinite we try to find it using our sences, trying to seek the infinite using our physical sences sight,taste touch, smell and sound are like trying to reach the moon using a childs balloon." thats not the exact qoute but its somthing to that extent. Our finite sences cannot explain the infinite world of quantum physics. But all be damned if thats gonna stop me from tryin.


Thanks for the link, I saved it to my favorites,to read when I have the time

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
Yeah Ive seen that video, gotta love some Dr. Kaku!!
I forgot who said it. but he was along the lines of some yogi master. He said" in seeking the infinite we try to find it using our sences, trying to seek the infinite using our physical sences sight,taste touch, smell and sound are like trying to reach the moon using a childs balloon." thats not the exact qoute but its somthing to that extent. Our finite sences cannot explain the infinite world of quantum physics. But all be damned if thats gonna stop me from tryin.

But this begs the question: How do we know there is an infinite world of quantum physics in the first place? We made up this world, so now we have to keep looking for what we made up? Or would our time be better spent in seeking out new theories based in the reality we can actually observe?

The yogi master is essentially saying "There's a ball over there but you can't see it or touch it; you just have to believe it." This is why Robert Jastrow said, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

So let me get this straight. Theology is only worth pursuing if it is not a popular thought? Isnt Quantum physics just a theory? So wouldnt that put it into the relm of theology?

So *poof* someone thought of somthing! ehhh...dont even worry about it. we have other things to theorise that people havnt thought of yet.

We need theories just as much as we need scientific proof of concept, for if there wernt theories, there would be nothing to test.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
So let me get this straight. Theology is only worth pursuing if it is not a popular thought? Isnt Quantum physics just a theory? So wouldnt that put it into the relm of theology?

So *poof* someone thought of somthing! ehhh...dont even worry about it. we have other things to theorise that people havnt thought of yet.

We need theories just as much as we need scientific proof of concept, for if there wernt theories, there would be nothing to test.

I'm afraid your response here is completely removed from anything I said, so let me try again...

Two theories are at hopeless odds: quantum theory and the general theory of relativity. The solution is not to first presume that what the theories predicted are "real", but to look for a model that explains reality better. This isn't about popularity at all, unless we consider the enormous peer pressure to not question "scientific orthodoxy". A theory that has been shown to be internally contradictory should be abandoned for that reason, not endlessly kept alive because one wishes to believe in its predictions. This is nowhere near an argument to do away with all theories, but to admit it when we have a bad one and move on.

ahhhh, gotcha. sorry for the mis-read. But under that thought shouldnt quantum physics and general relitivty both be discarded? They both have faults in their reasoning. quantum breaks apart when you start to relate it to the large, and relitivty breaks apart when you relate it to the small. I beleive we have more digging to do on both (and many many more) theories before we can just say, lets move on.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
ahhhh, gotcha. sorry for the mis-read. But under that thought shouldnt quantum physics and general relitivty both be discarded? They both have faults in their reasoning. quantum breaks apart when you start to relate it to the large, and relitivty breaks apart when you relate it to the small. I beleive we have more digging to do on both (and many many more) theories before we can just say, lets move on.

If they're both internally contradictory, yes. But the focus here is on quantum theory, and my point was that since they contradict each other, at least one of them must be wrong.

But I really do think the "electric universe" or some sort of plasma theory will prove to be better. Way back when I first understood that every atom is an electromagnet, and that everything is made of atoms, it seemed reasonable to presume that everything in the universe has this electromagnetic property. So of we approach physics, from the tiny to the cosmic, as an electrical entity, we should be able to explain far more of what we observe than present theories have been able to do.

I agree.
I havnt watch "The Electric Universe" yet but it is definetly on my list of must see information. I keep a very open mind when it comes to trying to understand the universe and how it all works. But it keeps leading me to the result of that we must rely on more than just our 5 sense organs. I know that the physical world is bound by phyiscal science. But I think when it comes to the nature of the actual universe as a whole, we have to start finding out why our physical means are failing when non-physical lends it self to be truer just not provable in a physical sense.

Anyhoo we can go round and round with this all day. I was just trying to open peoples minds to another way of understanding what theoretical scienctist are saying about the quantum world.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
I agree.
I havnt watch "The Electric Universe" yet but it is definetly on my list of must see information. I keep a very open mind when it comes to trying to understand the universe and how it all works. But it keeps leading me to the result of that we must rely on more than just our 5 sense organs. I know that the physical world is bound by phyiscal science. But I think when it comes to the nature of the actual universe as a whole, we have to start finding out why our physical means are failing when non-physical lends it self to be truer just not provable in a physical sense.

I agree. But I just wanted to point out that when we leave the realm of the observable and provable, we leave the realm of science and enter the realm of faith and intuition.