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Originally posted by Uncinus
The actual paper is quite an entertaining exercise in "spot the problems with this study"
Originally posted by bsbray11
Originally posted by Uncinus
The actual paper is quite an entertaining exercise in "spot the problems with this study"
Since you only quoted the paper and didn't post any actual problems with it, does that mean you're still pouring over it to find something to justify the conclusions you've already reached?
Originally posted by jdub297
Have you read the actual report of this "test?"
4 bottles of Fiji water, 2 prayed over, sent to a team member who then selcted "samples" for photography and "aesthetic" analysis over the internet.
The selector, by coincidence, no doubt, chose 50% MORE of the prayed-over "samples" to submit for "aesthetic" evaluation.
Originally posted by Uncinus
They used four different bottles of water.
Two of the bottles were handled differently from the other two.
Hence different results quite probably.
Originally posted by bsbray11
See any pattern?
Originally posted by adeclerk
I do see a pattern, more junk science. Any scientist knows that there is not a photo of a molecule there, no one has a photograph of a water molecule!
Those are pretty standard snowflake patterns (for the macro or microscopic scale), you get the same results without the bunk assertions.
Originally posted by bsbray11
You're really showing me how open you are to new science, really. You going to debunk Dr. Tiller by selectively ignoring him too?
The treatment bottles were placed inside a double-steelwalled, electromagnetically shielded room...
The control bottles were placed in separate cardboard boxes and stored on a desk in a quiet location on another floor of the building that housed the shielded room.
When an experiment is conducted for the purpose of determining the effect of a single variable of interest on a particular system, a scientific control is used to minimize the unintended influence of other variables on the same system. Such extraneous variables include researcher bias, environmental changes, and biological variation. Scientific controls ensure that data are valid, and are a vital part of the scientific method.
Originally posted by adeclerk
It is really telling how scientifically minded you are when you don't understand that we cannot photograph a water molecule, those are ice crystals, not single molecules!
Molecules. I said molecular structure, as in the structure created by the arrangement of the molecules.
Originally posted by Phage
For starters, the "control" sample was not handled in the same manner as the test sample.
There was no control sample.
Originally posted by bsbray11
Originally posted by Uncinus
They used four different bottles of water.
Two of the bottles were handled differently from the other two.
Hence different results quite probably.
Yes, two bottles were set aside as controls.
So you're saying they shouldn't have used a control? What is your point?
The man who conducted this experiment is a Ph.D. Do you honestly believe he doesn't know how to set up a control?
Originally posted by Phage
They didn't have to be kept close to each other but they did have to be kept under the same environmental conditions.
They weren't. A cardboard box in a desk is not the same as a double steel, electromagnetically shielded room.
Originally posted by Uncinus
yes, they should have used a control. The control should have been OF THE SAME WATER. As it was they used two different bottles.
And the number of crystals is clearly not enough to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion. The results are well within the bounds of randomness. In any set of 16 random numbers, there is a very high probability that the average vary greatly from the average of 10000 random numbers.
Originally posted by Phage
It's the experimenters job to eliminate variables. The water (and not the same water, as pointed out) was subjected to different environments during the experiment.
Originally posted by bsbray11
I said molecular structure, as in the structure created by the arrangement of the molecules.