How to Bust Chemtrails from the Ground, Very Simple

Originally posted by Uncinus
Er no, I'd say "show me", someone would show me, and then I'd say "Okay, it works!"

That's easy for you to say living in a world where electricity is already taken for granted and well-understood from decades of corporate research. Otherwise you would be dissecting the simplest circuit into a million different pieces and demanding a full explanation for everything.

Let's use Dr. Emoto's work as a modern-day example since it ties in here.

You ever seen this?:

www.masaru-emoto.net...


This is a real scientist and his work has been replicated. So now what excuses are you instantly going to start making?

Interesting quotes from one the most popular currrent orgone researchers, who I think has a video and links featured in the OP

www.orgonelab.org...

We know the cloudbuster has a powerful influence, and this has been proven out in any number of systematically-undertaken experiments. When properly used, it can trigger the genesis of large isolated storms, or even entire frontal systems, which can quench parched lands and change a stagnant atmosphere back to its more natural sparkling character. The technique has the general capability of affecting jet stream movements and steering large storms; even hurricanes may be diverted. Cloud cover can be increased to generate widespread rains, and possibly reduced to dry up rains during times of flooding. Fogs can be lifted or created. In skilled hands, the instrument has a variety of effects which can benefit a region, primarily in restoring natural cycles of rainfall to areas of drought or desert. There is evidence cloudbuster-produced rains have a more basic pH, thereby reducing the acidity of rainfall, or it can be used for smog-reduction more generally. However, there is a dark side to all of this, in the potential mis-application and distortion of Reich's findings.
[....]
Reich's work then becomes inappropriately associated with totally crazy things, such as the "chemtrail" claims, or the David Icke fairy-tale novels about "shape-shifting space aliens". It gets all mixed up with huge government conspiracy theory and other things which go well beyond the rational concerns about air pollution or even the rational examination of ufo phenomenon. And this, of course, obstructs progress in manner that is almost as efficient as censorship, as wherever a serious scientific inquiry about Reich's work is made in a professional organization, they have already heard about the "crazy Reich" a long time earlier, and nobody wants to hear anything more about it.
[...]
This list on irrational activities can be closed with the following fully insane example which is related to the above points #18 amd #19: There are today many individuals who have made "cloudbusters" (sometimes called "chembusters" - click for more info) which are of a slightly different design from those of Reich, solely for the claimed purpose of "eliminating chemtrails". They believe the US government, or some conspiracy of government with evil space aliens, are deliberately spraying toxic chemicals into populated areas, and this is the reason for people's ill health. While the issue of toxic chemicals from jet aircraft exhaust, possible cloudseeding experiments, and air pollution in general is certainly an important subject requiring critical analysis, the accusations made by some in these groups go well beyond such a simple interpretation, and border into blatantly paranoid and psychotic territory

And my favorite:

According to Reich's findings, however, the presence of well-formed jet contrails is a general indicator of a healthy cloud-forming atmosphere.

Originally posted by Uncinus
And my favorite:

According to Reich's findings, however, the presence of well-formed jet contrails is a general indicator of a healthy cloud-forming atmosphere.

And if he started hearing of these kinds of things he would be rolling over in his grave:

Citizen concern lingers over aluminum in water

Mount Shasta, Calif. —

Several Mt. Shasta area residents continue to express their concerns over what they say are toxic levels of aluminum showing up in area rain, snow and pond water samples taken in and around the City of Mt. Shasta.
Recent test results submitted to the Mt. Shasta Area Newspapers by two concerned citizens show levels of aluminum ranging from 198 ug/l (micro grams per liter) to 61,100 ug/l, with the most recent sample taken from a rain gauge within the Mt. Shasta city limits on Feb. 1, showing 1010 ug/l.

According to standards established by the California Environmental Protection agency, this number exceeds the 1000 ug/l Primary MCL maximum contaminant level) for aluminum, qualifying it as unfit for drinking.
The concerns over the apparent high levels of aluminum first surfaced last spring, as a small group of Siskiyou and Shasta county residents began expressing their alarm over what they claim is an aerial spraying program intended to control the weather or thwart global warming.

The issue, commonly referred to as “chemtrails,” is seen by many as nothing more than an internet hoax. Others, however, claim that the lingering plumes of exhaust from planes is part of a world wide program to create a heavy metal “shield” in the atmosphere.

Beginning last spring, some area residents began asserting their consternation over the long lingering clouds seen throughout the area. Proponents of the theory say that contrails, the normal water vapor emitted from jet engines, dissipate quickly, while chemtrails linger for up to half a day, often morphing into a cirrus cloud- like canopy, creating an overcast sky.

www.mtshastanews.com...

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Uncinus
Er no, I'd say "show me", someone would show me, and then I'd say "Okay, it works!"

That's easy for you to say living in a world where electricity is already taken for granted and well-understood from decades of corporate research. Otherwise you would be dissecting the simplest circuit into a million different pieces and demanding a full explanation for everything.

Let's use Dr. Emoto's work as a modern-day example since it ties in here.

You ever seen this?:

www.masaru-emoto.net...

This is a real scientist and his work has been replicated. So now what excuses are you instantly going to start making?

I'm familiar with him. I suggest you read this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Where was his work replicated?

reply to post by bsbray11


Dude, if you are interested, that is exactly what I am talking about.

Tell me you are not going to drag poor Dr. Emoto and his work in to this, as well.

I will have to do a whole thread just on Emoto to get the bad taste out of all of our mouths.

Yeah, Emoto and his work are great. But in your stretch to make sense out of what you are seeing in the skies you have begun to border on the absurd.

Arrgh.

Originally posted by Frater210
Dude, if you are interested, that is exactly what I am talking about.

I actually have no idea what you're talking about because so far all you've done is made a bunch of vague statements about Reich being wrong without any specifics about any other work.

Yeah, Emoto and his work are great. But in your stretch to make sense out of what you are seeing in the skies you have begun to border on the absurd.

What form of energy do you think is conditioning the water molecules in Emoto's work?

Originally posted by bsbray11
www.mtshastanews.com...

Rummaging around in the cardboard box of chemtrail memorabilia I see.

You really want to discuss the Shasta water tests? There's a thread for that:

metabunk.org...

But here's the followup to the article you posted:

www.mtshastanews.com...

Mount Shasta, Calif. —
Recent testing of the water in and around the city of Mount Shasta by a group of local citizens claims to have found levels of aluminum that are a danger to health.
Independent testing of several area water sources and the city’s water supply have found either no aluminum or trace amounts.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Uncinus
"Men in power want you dead" and "everyone wants the best for you" are not the only choices.
But this orgone thing is easy. Surely there's a verifiable test you can do to prove if it works or not?

I'm sure there is, and I'm sure Wilhelm Reich himself proved much about this form of energy.
But what happens when there is simultaneously a concerted disinformation campaign against it, too? Then what do you think you would see? Maybe something like the global warming nonsense that keeps going back and forth, you think?
This is exactly like alternative energy science. It's been there for decades, but there is no money behind it because companies only stand to lose money from it, so what are we left with? Petty bickering, mockery and insults from the peanut gallery.

Hey, this is an easy one!

Anyone here that believes in "orgone" energy, please take the time and effort to build a device, document your efforts with photos, then "run" the equipment for 30 days.

Keep a log, take lots pof photos, get weather info and you will become one of a small group of "new" explorers saving the rest of us ignorants.

OK. So, who's on first?

jw

Originally posted by Uncinus
I'm familiar with him. I suggest you read this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Where was his work replicated?

Dr. Dean Radin replicated it as one example.

Some people, when faced with claims like Dr. Emoto's "intention affects the formation of water cystals," immediately dismiss it as nonsense. Others uncritically accept the claim because it sounds nice. My first reaction is to try to replicate the claim to see it for myself. I conducted such a test with Dr. Emoto, where he and his staff were kept blind as to which bottles of water had been treated. The paper reporting the experiment has just come out. Here's the abstract:

DOUBLE-BLIND TEST OF THE EFFECTS OF DISTANT INTENTION ON WATER CRYSTAL FORMATION

The hypothesis that water “treated” with intention can affect ice crystals formed from that water was pilot tested under double-blind conditions. A group of approximately 2,000 people in Tokyo focused positive intentions towards water samples located inside an electromagnetically shielded room in California. That group was unaware of similar water samples set aside in a different location as controls. Ice crystals formed from both sets of water samples were blindly identified and photographed by an analyst, and the resulting images were blindly assessed for aesthetic appeal by 100 independent judges. Results indicated that crystals from the treated water were given higher scores for aesthetic appeal than those from the control water (p = 0.001, one-tailed), lending support to the hypothesis.

Citation: Radin, D. I., Hayssen, G., Emoto, M., & Kizu, T. (2006). Explore, September/October 2006, Vol. 2, No. 5.

A triple-blind replication of this effect is presently underway.

deanradin.blogspot.com...


And you see, here is an example of something being replicated, and still it is obviously not enough for you. So stop acting like you are actually open to any of this kind of thing.


Btw if you actually entertained Emoto's work for any length of time at all, do you not see where human intention explicitly factors into the experiment? What do you think people are going to prove, who only set out to debunk the work, seriously? By Emoto's own conclusions, they would obviously fail to duplicate his work because they are not truly unbiased through the whole process. This is like a scaled-up version of the "placebo effect" where you are only going to see what you WANT to see.

Originally posted by Uncinus
But here's the followup to the article you posted:

www.mtshastanews.com...

Mount Shasta, Calif. —
Recent testing of the water in and around the city of Mount Shasta by a group of local citizens claims to have found levels of aluminum that are a danger to health.
Independent testing of several area water sources and the city’s water supply have found either no aluminum or trace amounts.

So let's see. You get one test showing one thing, another test showing something else, and you automatically decide the one that you want to agree with must automatically be right. That's how it works, isn't it?

Are you not drawing the parallels between this topic and global warming yet? Or alternative energy? Or theoretical physics? Go back in time and you'll see that Copernicus had to deal with the same garbage with something as simple as proving that the Earth revolves around the Sun. You think truth is cut-and-dry and everyone would agree on it, and yet you hypocritically ignore anything to the contrary that automatically proves you wrong about "oh it would instantly change the world and everyone would agree" and all this kind of garbage.

reply to post by bsbray11

What form of energy do you think is conditioning the water molecules in Emoto's work?

Well, in the Geo-Engineering and 'ChemTrail' threads I would say that the energy is the electricity that Dr. Masuru Emoto uses to rapidly freeze the water that he uses to make his photographs.

But if we were in the Philosophy and Metaphysics threads I might say Love or something having to do with our emotions.

reply to post by bsbray11


So they could effect water with their thoughts (which are electrical impulses) from thousands of miles away in an electromagnetically shielded room? Do you even understand why that would be impossible?

ETA: On second thought, I doubt you will understand why this is impossible so I will explain. Thoughts are electromagnetic energy, so those 'good intentions' would be shielded by that room.

Regarding helicopters circling peoples houses that have these devices. They dont circle the houses because of the capability of these devices (busting up chemtrails and clouds) but because they look like weapons , (missile launchers anti-aircraft batteries). Naturally helicopters (law enforcement-military) will be checking into it and thats a good thing.

Originally posted by Frater210

What form of energy do you think is conditioning the water molecules in Emoto's work?

Well, in the Geo-Engineering and 'ChemTrail' threads I would say that the energy is the electricity that Dr. Masuru Emoto uses to rapidly freeze the water that he uses to make his photographs.

But if we were in the Philosophy and Metaphysics threads I might say Love or something having to do with our emotions.

Regardless of what you named the energy, it would not reflect any previously known behaviors of electromagnetism.

That's not trivial, either. It's something that would send scientists back to the drawing board in terms of finding a unified field theory, because they would have a brand new set of previously-unknown behaviors to reconcile with other forces.

And if love exerts some kind of demonstrable energy then you would have the same result.

So in the end, whether you want to call it EM, love or orgone, the bottom line is that there are energetic exchanges going on that do not fall into any of the old categories.

Originally posted by adeclerk
So they could effect water with their thoughts (which are electrical impulses) from thousands of miles away in an electromagnetically shielded room? Do you even understand why that would be impossible?

They aren't saying EM impulses are what is accomplishing it. You are confused about the content of the paper.

Stanford's Dr. William Tiller has done similar studies and gotten similar results. You can look him up too while you're at it. He's even gone so far as to develop theories and formulas for previously undiscovered forms of biological energy that are precursors to electrical impulses in biological organisms. This is how you are able to send awareness to certain parts of your body just by thinking about them.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by bsbray11

 

So they could effect water with their thoughts (which are electrical impulses) from thousands of miles away in an electromagnetically shielded room? Do you even understand why that would be impossible?

ETA: On second thought, I doubt you will understand why this is impossible so I will explain. Thoughts are electromagnetic energy, so those 'good intentions' would be shielded by that room.

edit on 6/1/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

The actual paper is quite an entertaining exercise in "spot the problems with this study"

download.journals.elsevierhealth.com...

METHODS Water Sample Preparation In preparation for the experiment, the second author (G.H.) purchased four plastic bottles of Fiji brand commercial bottled water (Los Angeles, CA). This brand was selected because, unlike many other bottled waters, after the Fiji label was removed, the plastic bottle contained no words, symbols, or other shapes em- bossed in the plastic. The first author (D.R.) randomly assigned the bottles with labels A through D (using a tossed die), and, with G.H., he selected two of those bottles to be the “treated” samples (randomly selected as A and B); the remaining two bottles were set aside as controls (C and D).
The treatment bottles were placed inside a double-steel- walled, electromagnetically shielded room (Series 81 Solid Cell; Lindgren/ETS, Cedar Park, TX) at the Institute of Noetic Sci- ences (IONS) in Petaluma, California. This room was used pri- marily as a convenient, limited-access location in which to place the bottles during the remote treatment period. The control bottles were placed in separate cardboard boxes and stored on a desk in a quiet location on another floor of the building that housed the shielded room. D.R. and G.H. did not inform the third or fourth authors (M.E. or T.K.) about the existence of the control bottles until after the treatment period was com- pleted.
A digital photo of the two treatment bottles in the shielded chamber was e-mailed to M.E. and T.K. in Tokyo to be used as a visual aid for a group that would later be directing their inten- tions toward those bottles. The treatment and control bottles were maintained at approximately the same temperatures and were handled approximately the same length of time.

Treatment
On November 16, 2005, M.E. led a group of approximately 2,000 people in Tokyo in a prayer of gratitude directed toward the water in the IONS laboratory, some 5,000 miles away. M.E. showed the audience where the IONS laboratory was located in relationship to Tokyo by using a sequence of images from the Google Earth global mapping application (Mountain View, CA). Next, he showed the digital picture of the bottles inside the
shielded chamber with the words of an intentional “prayer for water” overlaid on the photo. After explaining the photo and purpose of the experiment, M.E. led the group in speaking aloud the words of the prayer. This lasted approximately 5 minutes.

The day after the conference, D.R. and G.H. retrieved all four bottles and wrapped them in identical sheets of aluminum foil and bubble wrap, placed each bottle in a separate box labeled A through D as appropriate, and mailed the four boxes to M.E.’s laboratory. (The treatment and control bottles were in their sep- arate locations for approximately 36 hours before being brought together again for packaging.) The bubble wrap and aluminum foil were used to provide a rudimentary shield against sudden shocks, ambient light, and electromagnetic fields that might have impinged on the bottles while en route to Japan. Each box was packaged separately to avoid the possibility that treated bottles might influence the control bottles through close prox- imity. After mailing the boxes, D.R. and G.H. informed M.E. and T.K. about the two control bottles, but they were not told the conditions of the four bottles to ensure that their analysis would be conducted blindly.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Uncinus
I'm familiar with him. I suggest you read this: en.wikipedia.org...
Where was his work replicated?

Dr. Dean Radin replicated it as one example.

Some people, when faced with claims like Dr. Emoto's "intention affects the formation of water cystals," immediately dismiss it as nonsense. Others uncritically accept the claim because it sounds nice. My first reaction is to try to replicate the claim to see it for myself. I conducted such a test with Dr. Emoto, where he and his staff were kept blind as to which bottles of water had been treated. The paper reporting the experiment has just come out. Here's the abstract:
DOUBLE-BLIND TEST OF THE EFFECTS OF DISTANT INTENTION ON WATER CRYSTAL FORMATION
The hypothesis that water “treated” with intention can affect ice crystals formed from that water was pilot tested under double-blind conditions. A group of approximately 2,000 people in Tokyo focused positive intentions towards water samples located inside an electromagnetically shielded room in California. That group was unaware of similar water samples set aside in a different location as controls. Ice crystals formed from both sets of water samples were blindly identified and photographed by an analyst, and the resulting images were blindly assessed for aesthetic appeal by 100 independent judges. Results indicated that crystals from the treated water were given higher scores for aesthetic appeal than those from the control water (p = 0.001, one-tailed), lending support to the hypothesis.
Citation: Radin, D. I., Hayssen, G., Emoto, M., & Kizu, T. (2006). Explore, September/October 2006, Vol. 2, No. 5.
A triple-blind replication of this effect is presently underway.

deanradin.blogspot.com...
And you see, here is an example of something being replicated, and still it is obviously not enough for you. So stop acting like you are actually open to any of this kind of thing.
Btw if you actually entertained Emoto's work for any length of time at all, do you not see where human intention explicitly factors into the experiment? What do you think people are going to prove, who only set out to debunk the work, seriously? By Emoto's own conclusions, they would obviously fail to duplicate his work because they are not truly unbiased through the whole process. This is like a scaled-up version of the "placebo effect" where you are only going to see what you WANT to see.

Have you read the actual report of this "test?"

4 bottles of Fiji water, 2 prayed over, sent to a team member who then selcted "samples" for photography and "aesthetic" analysis over the internet.

The selector, by coincidence, no doubt, chose 50% MORE of the prayed-over "samples" to submit for "aesthetic" evaluation.

And you are surprised that MORE of the one set was higher-rated than the other?

Give me a break.

Even the authors of the study acknowledge the likelihood of the intervening preferential selection.

What a pathetic waste of time! That is not science, it is pretend-science, that makes it sound like something the grown-ups do.

How pathetic. Good luck in your paranoia.

They are watching you, you know.

deny ignorance

jw

This is a reminder to post to the topic and not the poster.