How to Bust Chemtrails from the Ground, Very Simple

reply to post by bsbray11


Bsbray11, I don't understand. I seriously have no investment in getting upset with you. But I need to know why you are being so obstinate...

From the standpoint of social development, the family cannot be considered the basis of the authoritarian state, only as one of the most important institutions which support it.
It is, however, its central reactionary germ cell, the most important place of reproduction of the reactionary and conservative individual.
Being itself caused by the authoritarian system, the family becomes the most important institution for its conservation. In this connection, the findings of Morgan and of Engels are still entirely correct.

Those are not my opinions on Reich's ideas. Those Are Reich's ideas.

I couldn't even help it if I did not want them to be Reich's ideas.

No one is trying to distract from the Orgone. It is just that Uncinus posted information from well known Reich researchers that runs counter to what you are suggesting that Orgone technology is meant for.

And I posted Reich's ideas about how we are the Center of Fascism from which all Fascism springs.

Plus I was never down for explaining Orgone to anyone. Are you asking me now to explain Orgone to you?

You are one of the only people creating and maintaining these types of 'ChemTrail' threads from the 'believer' side.
I have only really been asking that you do so responsibly as you are representing many people.

Honestly, Bsbray11, this will be the last you hear from me. I am sorry but I really don't understand any longer why anyone would engage with you over this topic.


Thanks anyhow.

I really do get the impression, Bsbray11, that maybe you do not think that an 'idea' can be as dangerous as an actual device that you can touch called an Orgone Generator.

That maybe you think I am creating a blind of some kind by saying that an idea is more dangerous than that 'Orgone Device' which you can actually touch.

If that is the case then I find it to be a very sad commentary on Humanity in general that we have become so deluded and divorced from our true power.

Yeah, just keep your eye on the shiny object that you only half-understand.

Good plan.

reply to post by Frater210


Yeah, I can see why those ideas would not be liked in the era of McCarthyism.

reply to post by Frater210


The idea of orgone is way more dangerous than the generator itself, the idea can kill someone (if they think it's going to heal their cancer, for example) while the device can....well the device does nothing. But I've heard you can put your 'chemtrail remedy' next to an orgone generator for 5-10 minutes before using, it supposedly potentiates it's effects.

Originally posted by Frater210
Bsbray11, I don't understand. I seriously have no investment in getting upset with you. But I need to know why you are being so obstinate...

I don't even see that you have a point relevant to anything in this thread. You want to talk about all of Reich's work except orgone, which you think is bunk and is some kind of propaganda against him. That's fine that you enjoy the rest of his work. I simply don't agree with your opinions that his work with orgone was some kind of red herring. I have seen nothing to suggest he did not sincerely believe what he wrote regarding orgone, and it fits in with all of his other work as well as work Freud was doing around the same time and earlier.

No one is trying to distract from the Orgone. It is just that Uncinus posted information from well known Reich researchers that runs counter to what you are suggesting that Orgone technology is meant for.

Again, you are not even posting about his work on orgone. You are posting other literature he wrote. He also wrote books on psychology and general non-fiction. He also wrote about orgone. He built the devices, he used cloudbusters, he was paid by farmers for bringing rain to Maine during a drought when no rain was forecast. So keep on with whatever you think you are accomplishing by trying to redirect onto the rest of his work. We will have to agree to disagree regarding your opinions on orgone.

reply to post by adeclerk


Exactly my point, AdeClerk. That is gonna piss a lot of people off.

And that idea is dangerous today. Imagine everybody saying; 'Oh, I get it, Fascism begins with me', and then not doing it anymore.

Serious ramifications for many. Mostly good ramifications for many. But there are those few......

Look. I will say it right here and now...

Best thread title on ATS of 2011...

'Conspiracy Theorists Are The New Nazis'.

I don't know how deeply the thread originator understood this but my jaw hit the desk. I could not believe the perspicacity of this person.

See ya, Dudeman.

Originally posted by adeclerk
Yeah, I can see why those ideas would not be liked in the era of McCarthyism.

So what do you have? More evidence of corrupt high within government ranks. That's hardly news to me.

When you can manage to form this into an argument that Reich's other work with orgone was bunk, then I'll be interested. I can't see how it would happen though considering they are unrelated subjects, and since I already understand your opinions and how you try to argue them fallacious as if they are facts.

Originally posted by Frater210
And that idea is dangerous today. Imagine everybody saying; 'Oh, I get it, Fascism begins with me', and then not doing it anymore.

Then let it end with me.

Let me know when you can actually prove a negative and show that orgone doesn't work. As it stands I have no issue being honest in admitting I don't have proof that it works. If you reciprocated the same honesty you would admit that you can't prove the negative, that it doesn't. And again, I'm not claiming to have proof that it does, and I am comfortable leaving it there.

I am not talking about Reich's work on fascism and I don't see how anything he wrote about it contradicts his simultaneous work with orgone. They go hand-in-hand.

reply to post by bsbray11

He also wrote books on psychology and general non-fiction.

And Biology and Sociology...

He was a genius; and a nut.

The important thing to realize is that it was one guy writing all of this not one guy for each subject.

I know that you know that; I am just trying to suggest a synthetic and syncretic appreciation for the man and his work.

Please give it some thought, Bsbray11.

Yes, I am saying that his ideas on the origins of fascism are far more important than his work on Orgone. At the very least the fascism stuff is much higher on our priority list. I know you call that my opinion but someone has to say it.

If we had to make a plan for societal survival and only had Reich's ideas to work with 'Stop the Fascism' would definitely take priority over 'Build Orgone devices'.

We learned this from the Hippies right? Not the Yippies; they were very different.

Originally posted by Frater210

He also wrote books on psychology and general non-fiction.

And Biology and Sociology...

He was a genius; and a nut.

And again, I appreciate your opinion, but do not agree with it.

If we had to make a plan for societal survival and only had Reich's ideas to work with 'Stop the Fascism' would definitely take priority over 'Build Orgone devices'.

I don't see anything wrong with pursuing both at the same time, but again, that's my opinion, and you can try to hammer yours in over top of mine but I'm not likely to change my mind that way.

reply to post by bsbray11


Bsbray11,

I was wondering if you would entertain a question of me?

I am doing my own research into this subject matter of 'ChemTrails'. Finding meaning and understanding in all of this means very much to me and has been a personal 'mission' of sorts for 15+ years.

So if it is not too much trouble my question is this...

Would you please give me your most candid and well thought out opinion of 'second-hand-smoke'?

If you would prefer that we U2U that would be very acceptable to me as I am sincerely interested in your answer.

Thank you.

F210.

P.S....

Honestly, Bsbray11, this will be the last you hear from me. I am sorry but I really don't understand any longer why anyone would engage with you over this topic.

I was wrong and I am sorry for that, it, obviously, was not the last you will hear from me. I really do covet and 'need' for my research your answer to the question I asked above. I would sincerely appreciate it as there is no one else who is you. So your unique opinion and answer to the question is really important to me .
Thanks, B.

F210

Originally posted by bsbray11
So what do you have? More evidence of corrupt high within government ranks. That's hardly news to me.

Corruption has been rampant in government since the creation of government. Not news to me either.

Originally posted by bsbray11
\When you can manage to form this into an argument that Reich's other work with orgone was bunk, then I'll be interested.

It's unrelated, I was mentioning that McCarthyists would probably not like the idea that fascism starts with YOU, seeing as how they hated communism and pretty much anyone who wasn't American.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I can't see how it would happen though considering they are unrelated subjects, and since I already understand your opinions and how you try to argue them fallacious as if they are facts.

Still not changing the fact that orgone is unmeasurable, untestable, and despite it's supposed existence, indemonstrable.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by bsbray11
So what do you have? More evidence of corrupt high within government ranks. That's hardly news to me.

Corruption has been rampant in government since the creation of government. Not news to me either.

Then I guess you just haven't fully integrated the implications of exactly what is happening within agencies like the FDA.

Still not changing the fact that orgone is unmeasurable, untestable, and despite it's supposed existence, indemonstrable.

I never claimed it could be scientifically demonstrated, but if you refer back to the FDA you will begin to get an idea why there has not been more research into this subject. It's not like the FDA already proved that orgone can't possibly exist, before they took the effort to destroy all of Reich's literature on it. If what they did with Stevia is any example, then there was actually something to orgone for them to move in and destroy everything related to it.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I never claimed it could be scientifically demonstrated, but if you refer back to the FDA you will begin to get an idea why there has not been more research into this subject. It's not like the FDA already proved that orgone can't possibly exist, before they took the effort to destroy all of Reich's literature on it. If what they did with Stevia is any example, then there was actually something to orgone for them to move in and destroy everything related to it.

It can be demonstrated, period. And never has. All it would take is one example of it working to heal someone, bust a cloud, etc over a period of 70 years, and it hasn't been demonstrated yet.

proof and more proof. What is this fixation on proof. Like religion, proof only has to be provided for those who do not believe.

There are plenty of things which will never be proved in our lifetimes probably - ranging from energy meridians, which the Chinese have been using for thousands of years to the whys and wherefors of homeopathy. Now, there are hospitals which run on homeopathy, the Queen Mother and other members of the royals seem to live quite well using that system and there are numerous anecdotal evidence for things such as Flower Remedies which are also based on homeopathic methods.

Basically we dont have the measuring instruments at the moment to give you all the proof you need of these things and aliens, UFOs, ghosts, dimensions, God and all the other things.

So get over it. There are going to be things in this world that you cannot measure, and it does not mean that their effect is not 'real' to our 3D world.

It is just your collective insecurities coming up which mean that you are not comfortable with anything you cannot explain in scientifically explainable terms. Sad really. As if science knows it all anyway. Ha!

reply to post by qmantoo


It's not really about proof though. It's about evidence. Could you convince a jury?

Originally posted by qmantoo
proof and more proof. What is this fixation on proof. Like religion, proof only has to be provided for those who do not believe.

There are plenty of things which will never be proved in our lifetimes probably - ranging from energy meridians, which the Chinese have been using for thousands of years to the whys and wherefors of homeopathy. Now, there are hospitals which run on homeopathy, the Queen Mother and other members of the royals seem to live quite well using that system and there are numerous anecdotal evidence for things such as Flower Remedies which are also based on homeopathic methods.

Basically we dont have the measuring instruments at the moment to give you all the proof you need of these things and aliens, UFOs, ghosts, dimensions, God and all the other things.

So get over it. There are going to be things in this world that you cannot measure, and it does not mean that their effect is not 'real' to our 3D world.

It is just your collective insecurities coming up which mean that you are not comfortable with anything you cannot explain in scientifically explainable terms. Sad really. As if science knows it all anyway. Ha!

In other words, it IS a religious belief. Its good of some of you to at least acknowledge that. Chemtrails is something you have faith in, regardless of any evidence or proof. And if you are bringing up the supernatural into it also, well you are not doing any favors to your chemtrail cause.

Aviation is not some voodoo science and aircraft do not need a pile of dead chicken bones with santeria chants in order to fly. Why some of you link aircraft with intangible supernatural beliefs is bizzare

Do you find it all odd, that you admit you believe, with no evidence to support it?

A good comparison would also be with Multi Level Marketing. With both chemtrails and MLM schemes, victims/willing participants were sold a lie, end up alienating family members, look foolish to those around them, and claim "Any day now, you will see we will be right about all of this", all the while a very small number of people laugh about it all the way to the bank.

And those who fell for it all, spent money, invested so many hours in it, refuse to believe it is all junk, and invariably defend those who invented it and made money off of them.

Originally posted by qmantoo
proof and more proof. What is this fixation on proof. Like religion, proof only has to be provided for those who do not believe.

Indeed - so are you saying that yuo do not need proof (or credible evidence) in order to believe?

There are plenty of things which will never be proved in our lifetimes probably - ranging from energy meridians, which the Chinese have been using for thousands of years to the whys and wherefors of homeopathy.

Dunno aobut the Chinese, but the why's and wherefores of Homeopathy are well known - water has a memory, and since every bit of water on the planet has been next to every possible element, has passed through stars, and been pissed out by animals of every description while passing thrpugh their guts, it must be true that having a drink of water is good for you.....or you're just swallowing horse-piss!!

Did I miss anything??

Now, there are hospitals which run on homeopathy, the Queen Mother and other members of the royals seem to live quite well using that system and there are numerous anecdotal evidence for things such as Flower Remedies which are also based on homeopathic methods.

Flowers, and plants in general, contain real medicines - they are not homeopathic.

Basically we dont have the measuring instruments at the moment to give you all the proof you need of these things and aliens, UFOs, ghosts, dimensions, God and all the other things.

Yep - and so you can't actually say that any of those exist.

You are free to beleive that they exist, but if you want to spend real money - taxpayer dollars - or force people to behave in the manner which you would like to prescribe, you really need a bit more than that.

So get over it. There are going to be things in this world that you cannot measure, and it does not mean that their effect is not 'real' to our 3D world.

"Chemtrails" are supposedly very real - they are chemicals, or pathogens, or something - THEY SHOULD BE MEASUREABLE - so perhaps it is you who needs to understand that this is not somethign that can "exist" based on faith alone - if you are postulating that these things have real, measureable effects, then where's the measurements???

BTW homeopathy has real measureable effects - exactly the same as placebos......

It is just your collective insecurities coming up which mean that you are not comfortable with anything you cannot explain in scientifically explainable terms. Sad really. As if science knows it all anyway. Ha!

Science knows what it knows, and "chemtrails" shoudl be knowable by science because the things that chetmrail believers are claiming are all scientificly measureable effects!!

It is not us "debunkers" who are showing eh insecurity - it is all thsoe pepole who see something they do not understand, and think that it must be a deliberate secret plan to do something inimicable - THAT is real insecurity.

I was just thinking the other day how the chemmies getting their own category on here, may have been their undoing.

Before that, they would post chemtrail threads in several different categories on here, but when they got their own, they were rather estastic about it and thought it would make it easier for them to proof chemtrails were real and existed.

I think its the opposite though. It actually makes it easier to debunk them, when they are just in one place on ATS. They cant go post the same idea or article in different places on here, and it makes debunking so much easier when they limited to a single place to post about their chemtrail religious beliefs.

reply to post by firepilot


Yep - that was my thought when I posted this therad after the forum had been going a month:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A couple more months, and it's still the same