How to Bust Chemtrails from the Ground, Very Simple

AC,

Back up your statements by evidence. If you're stating something as fact, provide the proof.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Come on AC, you can't demand proof from others and then refuse to provide it yourself.....without exposing the hypocrisy of your modus operandum.

edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

Here, read about the burden of proof. Now realize, in this I am not the claimant, I am stating what has already been supported (that orgone has never worked), the burden of proof lies on you, to show that it has worked before. It hasn't, not once, ever. If orgone did work, it would literally change medical science and meteorology as we know it. Has it?

You want proof it doesn't work? Try one for yourself.
Until an orgone device works, my opinion IS fact. But don't count on it, orgonies have had 70 years to prove the efficacy of orgone, how has that worked out for them?

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

Come on AC, you can't demand proof from others and then refuse to provide it yourself.....without exposing the hypocrisy of your modus operandum.

edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

Here, read about the burden of proof. Now realize, in this I am not the claimant, I am stating what has already been supported (that orgone has never worked), the burden of proof lies on you, to show that it has worked before. It hasn't, not once, ever. If orgone did work, it would literally change medical science and meteorology as we know it. Has it?

You want proof it doesn't work? Try one for yourself.
Until an orgone device works, my opinion IS fact. But don't count on it, orgonies have had 70 years to prove the efficacy of orgone, how has that worked out for them?

edit on 6/15/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

No wriggling out of it AC. You made statements of fact. Prove them.

Since when has opinion been synonymous with fact? Nice try. Clearly you have no proof at all that your statement is correct.

Man up and provide the proof you are constantly demanding from others. Where's the scientific evidence you're always asking others to provide to back up their statements?

I'll tell you where it is - you haven't got any.

Originally posted by wcitizen

No wriggling out of it AC. You made statements of fact. Prove them.

Well, if you're going to play it like that, the proof is in that no orgone device has ever worked, period. If they did, medical doctors would have to relearn everything they knew. Meteorologists would take note. Tell me why none of that has happened?

Originally posted by wcitizen
Since when has opinion been synonymous with fact? Nice try. Clearly you have no proof at all that your statement is correct.

I have 70 years of orgone energy devices not working to back my claim. Funny how you ignore that, but I suppose you're one of those 'sensitives' who can 'feel it' yeah?

Originally posted by wcitizen
Man up and provide the proof you are constantly demanding from others. Where's the scientific evidence you're always asking others to provide to back up their statements?

I'll tell you where it is - you haven't got any.

Wrong. How about when Einstein tested orgone?

On December 30, 1940, Reich wrote to Albert Einstein saying he had a scientific discovery he wanted to discuss, and on January 13, 1941 went to visit Einstein in Princeton. They talked for five hours, and Einstein agreed to test an orgone accumulator, which Reich had constructed out of a Faraday cage made of galvanized steel and insulated by wood and paper on the outside.

Interesting so far? Here's my favorite part.

Einstein agreed that if, as Reich suggested, an object's temperature could be raised without an apparent heating source, it would be a "bombshell" in physics.

Huh, like I said, eh?

Reich supplied Einstein with a small accumulator during their second meeting, and Einstein performed the experiment in his basement, which involved taking the temperature atop, inside, and near the device. He also stripped the device down to its Faraday cage to compare temperatures. In his attempt to replicate Reich's findings, Einstein observed a rise in temperature, which Reich argued was caused by the orgone energy that had accumulated inside the Faraday cage. However, one of Einstein's assistants pointed out that the temperature was lower on the floor than on the ceiling. Following that remark, Einstein modified the experiment and, as a result, concluded that the effect was simply due to the temperature gradient inside the room. He wrote back to Reich, describing his experiments and expressing the hope that Reich would develop a more skeptical approach.

Reich responded with a 25-page letter to Einstein, expressing concern that "convection from the ceiling" would join "air germs" and "Brownian movement" to explain away new findings. The correspondence between Reich and Einstein was published by Reich's press as The Einstein Affair in 1953, possibly without Einstein's permission.

Orgonies: 0; adeclerk: 1;

So do I need fairy dust to protect me against orgone or does orgone protect me against fairy dust?

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

No wriggling out of it AC. You made statements of fact. Prove them.

Well, if you're going to play it like that, the proof is in that no orgone device has ever worked, period.

Prove it. That's an opinion, if it's a fact as you state show me the proof. Since you worship 'science' and always demand scientific evidence from others, put your money where your mouth is, as they say, and show me what you've got to back up this statement. Show me the scientific which proves your statement is correct..

If they did, medical doctors would have to relearn everything they knew. Meteorologists would take note. Tell me why none of that has happened?

LOL. So medical doctors who avoid literally hundreds of known alternative remedies are now the experts.

And meteorologists would notice cloud dissipating and find it anomalous? LOL.

This is not even evidence, let alone proof. It's a joke. AC, you give everyone a hard time and you're constantly ridiculing people who put forward exactly this kind of comment.

I'm still asking for you to show me the proof. Where is it?

I have 70 years of orgone energy devices not working to back my claim.

Where's the evidence to back up that statement?

Funny how you ignore that, but I suppose you're one of those 'sensitives' who can 'feel it' yeah?

Nice try at trying to turn the tables - but you're the one who is ignoring the request that you back up your alleged facts with proof.

Wrong. How about when Einstein tested orgone?

On December 30, 1940, Reich wrote to Albert Einstein saying he had a scientific discovery he wanted to discuss, and on January 13, 1941 went to visit Einstein in Princeton. They talked for five hours, and Einstein agreed to test an orgone accumulator, which Reich had constructed out of a Faraday cage made of galvanized steel and insulated by wood and paper on the outside.

Interesting so far? Here's my favorite part.

Einstein agreed that if, as Reich suggested, an object's temperature could be raised without an apparent heating source, it would be a "bombshell" in physics.

Link to the data please.

Reich supplied Einstein with a small accumulator during their second meeting, and Einstein performed the experiment in his basement, which involved taking the temperature atop, inside, and near the device. He also stripped the device down to its Faraday cage to compare temperatures. In his attempt to replicate Reich's findings, Einstein observed a rise in temperature, which Reich argued was caused by the orgone energy that had accumulated inside the Faraday cage. However, one of Einstein's assistants pointed out that the temperature was lower on the floor than on the ceiling. Following that remark, Einstein modified the experiment and, as a result, concluded that the effect was simply due to the temperature gradient inside the room. He wrote back to Reich, describing his experiments and expressing the hope that Reich would develop a more skeptical approach.

Reich responded with a 25-page letter to Einstein, expressing concern that "convection from the ceiling" would join "air germs" and "Brownian movement" to explain away new findings. The correspondence between Reich and Einstein was published by Reich's press as The Einstein Affair in 1953, possibly without Einstein's permission.

Link?

Orgonies: 0; adeclerk: 1;

This sums up your attitude totally. This isn't about exploring or learning anything at all for you. It's just like a computer game....which you want to WIN.

That's why I find your posts tedious in the extreme, they contribute nothing of value.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

No wriggling out of it AC. You made statements of fact. Prove them.

Well, if you're going to play it like that, the proof is in that no orgone device has ever worked, period.

Prove it. That's an opinion, if it's a fact as you state show me the proof.

If you think something works, prove it.

It's not for us to prove that fairy dust doesn't prevent moonbeams from eating your pillow.

Alternatively, there's $100,000 if you can prove the elephant trap in my fridge doesn't work. It's been in operation for 15 years and so far not one elephant has broken in to eat my butter .....

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

No wriggling out of it AC. You made statements of fact. Prove them.

Well, if you're going to play it like that, the proof is in that no orgone device has ever worked, period.

Prove it. That's an opinion, if it's a fact as you state show me the proof.

If you think something works, prove it.

It's not for us to prove that fairy dust doesn't prevent moonbeams from eating your pillow.

Alternatively, there's $100,000 if you can prove the elephant trap in my fridge doesn't work. It's been in operation for 15 years and so far not one elephant has broken in to eat my butter .....

I've tried to explain this to wcitizen many, many times. They don't understand the burden of proof, though.

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

No wriggling out of it AC. You made statements of fact. Prove them.

Well, if you're going to play it like that, the proof is in that no orgone device has ever worked, period.

Prove it. That's an opinion, if it's a fact as you state show me the proof.

If you think something works, prove it.

It's not for us to prove that fairy dust doesn't prevent moonbeams from eating your pillow.

Alternatively, there's $100,000 if you can prove the elephant trap in my fridge doesn't work. It's been in operation for 15 years and so far not one elephant has broken in to eat my butter .....

Right. You're coming in at the tail end without having read the thread, because if you had, you would see that I have NOT said I believe it works. Let's also be clear - someone saying they believe something works is not the same as claiming it does work, which is a statement of fact. The former is an expression of an opinion, which may be based on a number of things. To state something as fact means you can back it up with hard evidence.
I'm spelling this out because the difference seems to have eluded you.

The contempt in your post is typical fare from some on these threads. The arrogance behind it likewise.

Get your facts straight about what I've said before you start attacking me, or attempting to pour scorn on something I HAVEN'T said.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

No wriggling out of it AC. You made statements of fact. Prove them.

Well, if you're going to play it like that, the proof is in that no orgone device has ever worked, period.

Prove it. That's an opinion, if it's a fact as you state show me the proof.

If you think something works, prove it.

It's not for us to prove that fairy dust doesn't prevent moonbeams from eating your pillow.

Alternatively, there's $100,000 if you can prove the elephant trap in my fridge doesn't work. It's been in operation for 15 years and so far not one elephant has broken in to eat my butter .....

I've tried to explain this to wcitizen many, many times. They don't understand the burden of proof, though.

It has nothing to do with 'burden of proof' - that statement which you toss around because it sounds clever makes you feel important.

It's simple. You have stated categorically that it doesn't work. You make a statement of fact, you don't express it as an opinion. Fact is provable. Where's the proof?



So once again - if it's a fact as you allege, where's the proof?

Originally posted by wcitizen
LOL. So medical doctors who avoid literally hundreds of known alternative remedies are now the experts.

Poisoning the well because doctors don't believe in outlandish remedies? Nice.

And meteorologists would notice cloud dissipating and find it anomalous? LOL.

Wait, do cloudbusters bust clouds or make rain? Which are you claiming now?

This is not even evidence, let alone proof. It's a joke. AC, you give everyone a hard time and you're constantly ridiculing people who put forward exactly this kind of comment.

I'm still asking for you to show me the proof. Where is it?

The proof is in there being not a single instance in which orgone did anything. This is not a hard concept (well, maybe for those lacking critical thinking skills or understanding the burden of proof).

I have 70 years of orgone energy devices not working to back my claim.

Where's the evidence to back up that statement?

Is that a serious question? It's like asking me to prove skittles don't heal diabetes.

Nice try at trying to turn the tables - but you're the one who is ignoring the request that you back up your alleged facts with proof.

See above.

Einstein agreed that if, as Reich suggested, an object's temperature could be raised without an apparent heating source, it would be a "bombshell" in physics.

Link to the data please.

Go to the library and check out "The Einstein Affair" published in 1953. It contains all of the correspondence between Reich and Einstein and the details of the "experiment".

This sums up your attitude totally. This isn't about exploring or learning anything at all for you. It's just like a computer game....which you want to WIN.

It's not about winning, when you're right, you're right. Sorry the evidence, and science are on my side. Critical thinking will always lead you to the right side. Want a link about it?

That's why I find your posts tedious in the extreme, they contribute nothing of value.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, I guess if my information goes against your faith, well, to you it isn't of value. Keep an open mind, and think critically!

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen
LOL. So medical doctors who avoid literally hundreds of known alternative remedies are now the experts.

Poisoning the well because doctors don't believe in outlandish remedies? Nice.

Twisting words again, to wriggle out. It is a sad reflection on your intellect that your base line response to any challenge is 'ridicule'.


And meteorologists would notice cloud dissipating and find it anomalous? LOL.

Wait, do cloudbusters bust clouds or make rain? Which are you claiming now?

Me, I'm not claiming anything. Once again - poor comprehension skills. I'm challenging the CLAIM YOU MADE. Just keep trying to turn the tables to wriggle out of things.

The proof is in there being not a single instance in which orgone did anything.

This is not a hard concept (well, maybe for those lacking critical thinking skills or understanding the burden of proof).

No, the concept is simple. What is obviously very difficult for you is to provide any evidence at all for what you are CLAIMING to be FACT.

I have 70 years of orgone energy devices not working to back my claim.

Where's the evidence to back up that statement?

Is that a serious question? It's like asking me to prove skittles don't heal diabetes.

You made the claim, so now back it up.

Keep an open mind, and think critically!

Adeclerk, you clearly don't have the remotest idea of what that means.

You spout nothing but hot air and claim it is fact, and at the same time hypocritically and dishonestly demand that those who don't share your views provide evidence for every single thing they say.

reply to post by wcitizen


At this point I will stop feeding the troll. If you don't understand logic, it is a lost cause for me to argue with you.

You can tell who is right, though, just compare the stars in posts you've made in reply to me, to the stars on posts I've made in reply to you.

ETA: You've given me an idea for my next thread, be on the look out!

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by wcitizen

 

At this point I will stop feeding the troll. If you don't understand logic, it is a lost cause for me to argue with you.

You can tell who is right, though, just compare the stars in posts you've made in reply to me, to the stars on posts I've made in reply to you.

ETA: You've given me an idea for my next thread, be on the look out!

edit on 6/15/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

Ah, so you don't like the way I'm responding to you and you're calling it trolling? Funny, I call it mirroring.
Oh, you rely on stars to feel confident about your argument? Of course, that figures.

You've shown yourself to be full of hot air and hypocrisy.

Your next thread? Yes, I'll look out for it and avoid it like the plague.

Originally posted by wcitizen
You've shown yourself to be full of hot air and hypocrisy.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. It's funny, you want evidence that orgone doesn't exist (outside of the fact that it's never been demonstrated to :lol, and yet a long and short form birth certificate aren't evidence of our president being born in these United States. Interesting. It must be nice to be able to change your standards of evidence, and disregard the burden of proof when convenient.

BTW: Send me an orgone device and I'll gladly test it for you and do a writeup!

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen
You've shown yourself to be full of hot air and hypocrisy.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

Finally, you recognise that.

It's funny, you want evidence that orgone doesn't exist (outside of the fact that it's never been demonstrated to :lol

,

As I've said numerous times, and as you continue to choose to ignore, you are making claims that something is a fact. But you can't back that up with any evidence at all, so like a wriggling worm you continually try to turn the tables back on me.

But I don't expect you to acknowledge this, it would require self-awareness and integrity. However, this thread illustrates the point beyond doubt.

and yet a long and short form birth certificate aren't evidence of our president being born in these United States. Interesting. It must be nice to be able to change your standards of evidence, and disregard the burden of proof when convenient.

So, now you're attempting to divert the discussion onto something else to get yourself out of the corner you've painted yourself into! Lol

Come on man, give me the proof that they don't work, as per your claim.

BTW: Send me an orgone device and I'll gladly test it for you and do a writeup!

You made the claim without any evidence to back it up and now you want me to send you one so you can get your evidence? Lol. Get your own device if you want to actually attempt to have any evidence at all to back up your unsubstantiated hot air claims.

reply to post by wcitizen


What corner? Here's a definition: Fact - noun - A thing that is indisputably the case.
No orgone device has been demonstrated to work in the 70 years they have been around, so the statement "Orgone energy devices don't work" is indisputably the case. How do you not understand this!?

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by wcitizen

 

.
No orgone device has been demonstrated to work in the 70 years they have been around,

Show me proof that this statement is true. You keep stating it and stating it as though to keep stating it makes it true, which of course it doesn't. Prove it, is what I keep asking.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by wcitizen

 

.
No orgone device has been demonstrated to work in the 70 years they have been around,

Show me proof that this statement is true. You keep stating it and stating it as though to keep stating it makes it true, which of course it doesn't. Prove it, is what I keep asking.

Look! over there! (points at the universe), no orgone demonstrations! Can you see any? I can't.

I know that demanding proof for everything someone says, initially seems like a valid and useful discussion technique. In fact it IS valid and useful when used against an extraordinary claim ("I have a unicorn in my pocket", "prove it!")

But adeclerk is not making an extraordinary claim. He's saying that there's no evidence of orgone working because nobody has shown any. If course there could be evidence that people are keeping secret. But that's obvious, and goes without saying.

I would claim that in the last 100 years, nobody has presented convincing scientific evidence that unicorns currently exist. Would you also demand that I "prove" that? And what would constitute proof of non-existence of evidence?

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by wcitizen

 

.
No orgone device has been demonstrated to work in the 70 years they have been around,

Show me proof that this statement is true. You keep stating it and stating it as though to keep stating it makes it true, which of course it doesn't. Prove it, is what I keep asking.

Look! over there! (points at the universe), no orgone demonstrations! Can you see any? I can't.

I know that demanding proof for everything someone says, initially seems like a valid and useful discussion technique. In fact it IS valid and useful when used against an extraordinary claim ("I have a unicorn in my pocket", "prove it!")

I'm holding him to the same standards he demands from everyone else. Nothing more.

He makes a statement that something is fact, he should be able to provide evidence, since he ALWAYS expects that from others.

So, he can't provide the evidence and now he needs another member of the tag team to hold his hand?

Laughable.