How to Bust Chemtrails from the Ground, Very Simple

Originally posted by firepilot
So you do, or you dont think you can look at a contrail and tell its something else? You seem to take both positions with that.

When you understand the difference between an opinion and a fact, you will understand what I just posted.

Until then, you will remain confused.

I can say that every photo i have seen is a contrail, until i get proof otherwise.

I realize this, and that is why I say you have faith. It's not as if you have never seen evidence of anything else being dumped, because with the article above you obviously now have. Most trails left by planes may be contrails, but that doesn't make it logical for you to leap to the instant conclusion with any photo that it must simply be a normal contrail.

What were your thougths about the hoaxes used to promote chemtrails, since you did ask for evidence of hoaxing.

I haven't actually seen any hoaxing confirmed, but if it were then to me that would just be more poisoning of the wells. It's like asking me why do I think so many people on this forum are apparently obsessed with trying to "debunk" chemtrails. One reason is because the DoD pays people to post garbage on the internet.

Originally posted by Essan
I'm making no excuses for anyone. Just wondering why you're muddying the waters by bringing up a wholly different issue?

Again, what is the chemtrail conspiracy theory about? It's about governments dumping crap that they have no business dumping, into the air. It's not about being offended by the color of a trail or how high it is in the sky. It's about what is actually being dumped. Do you understand the significance of this or not? No one is complaining because they hate seeing white streaks in the sky. People are complaining because they have developed reason to believe that other substances are being intentionally sprayed, just as the article shows the UK government doing.


Why are you not upset or appear in any way offended that the UK government used its civilians as guinea pigs for biological and chemical warfare agents?

reply to post by bsbray11

When you understand the difference between an opinion and a fact, you will understand what I just posted.

Your comment confused me too.

Are you a congressman?

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Essan
I'm making no excuses for anyone. Just wondering why you're muddying the waters by bringing up a wholly different issue?

Again, what is the chemtrail conspiracy theory about? It's about governments dumping crap that they have no business dumping, into the air. It's not about being offended by the color of a trail or how high it is in the sky. It's about what is actually being dumped. Do you understand the significance of this or not? No one is complaining because they hate seeing white streaks in the sky.

Do you actually read the same messages on here as everyone else?

Yes, chemtrails is totally about the visual appearance of contrails, it always has been. People on chemtrail sites post all the time about how they are upset over the appearance of contrails, or how contrails can cross.

Have you not noticed all the photos of contrails on chemtrail message boards? And no, it is much less about what is being dumped, because they have no evidence of anything being released. They have faith that they are being sprayed on.

haven't actually seen any hoaxing confirmed, but if it were then to me that would just be more poisoning of the wells. It's like asking me why do I think so many people on this forum are apparently obsessed with trying to "debunk" chemtrails. One reason is because the DoD pays people to post garbage on the internet.

Umm, I typed up a long message, tearing apart the Will Thomas assertion of chemtrails from 2000 or so. And yes, he was one of the original promoters of chemtrails, and it was totally about the appearance of contrails. And it was all a made up lie.

Same with Tony Hilder and Ted Gunderson claiming Ft Sill has some chemplane fleet, when it does not even have a runway suitable for large aircraft. Or that the very public Lincoln Nebraska airport has a secret chemplane fleet too, that no one has seemed to ever get a photo of.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
Your comment confused me too.

Let me see if I can clarify.

A fact, is something that can be proven.

An opinion, is a belief that is recognized as not actually being proven, but is a belief nonetheless.


Should I start posting links for you to do some reading about this extremely complicated subject? I take it for granted since this was all taught to me in elementary school.

Originally posted by bsbray11
No one is complaining because they hate seeing white streaks in the sky.

I am. As are many others. Indeed, there are a many scientists studying the issue and trying to come up with ways of preventing them.

Originally posted by firepilot
Do you actually read the same messages on here as everyone else?

Yes, chemtrails is totally about the visual appearance of contrails, it always has been.

Now you are lying.

I don't care to carry on a discussion with someone who is purposefully and blatantly being dishonest about why people are actually concerned with chemtrails. If you think people are pissed because they don't like seeing white trails in the sky then you are obviously way out of your depth even coming onto this thread. I can tell you for a fact that that is not why I am concerned. I am concerned because of what the UK government did, as an example, which you apparently couldn't care less about, because you're so concerned with saving face in your internet arguments with strangers.

Umm, I typed up a long message, tearing apart the Will Thomas assertion of chemtrails from 2000 or so. And yes, he was one of the original promoters of chemtrails, and it was totally about the appearance of contrails. And it was all a made up lie.

Same with Tony Hilder and Ted Gunderson claiming Ft Sill has some chemplane fleet, when it does not even have a runway suitable for large aircraft. Or that the very public Lincoln Nebraska airport has a secret chemplane fleet too, that no one has seemed to ever get a photo of.

All I can tell you is that I have never heard of any of those people and you should go learn what a straw-man argument is.

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by bsbray11
No one is complaining because they hate seeing white streaks in the sky.

I am. As are many others. Indeed, there are a many scientists studying the issue and trying to come up with ways of preventing them.

This has nothing to do with chemtrails or the conspiracy theory angle of all of this.

If you are just offended by the appearance of contrails then you are in the wrong forum.

reply to post by bsbray11


I was replying to you question. Why does it upset you that I - and many others - am concerned about what you call chemtrails?

Originally posted by Essan
I was replying to you question. Why does it upset you that I - and many others - am concerned about what you call chemtrails?

It doesn't upset me. I am pointing out that your issue with contrails is a completely different subject than chemtrails as is being discussed here.

If you are concerned because you don't like the way white trails look in the sky then I can only imagine the immense amount of tears you must have shed when you learned that the UK government was using their own people as guinea pigs for chemical and biological warfare agents.

reply to post by bsbray11

The UK government did not use chemical and biological warfare agents on their own people.

They used a harmless marker and bacteria which are ubiquitous in order to study how real CBW agents might disperse.

Originally posted by bsbray11
If you think people are pissed because they don't like seeing white trails in the sky then you are obviously way out of your depth even coming onto this thread.
Same with Tony Hilder and Ted Gunderson claiming Ft Sill has some chemplane fleet, when it does not even have a runway suitable for large aircraft. Or that the very public Lincoln Nebraska airport has a secret chemplane fleet too, that no one has seemed to ever get a photo of.

All I can tell you is that I have never heard of any of those people and you should go learn what a straw-man argument is.

If you have not heard of those people, then you are not knowledgable at all about the chemtrails conspiracy. Will Thomas helped to invent it in the late 90s, Tony Hilder started the Aircrap.org website that continued to promote the chemtrail hoax, and he even has Ted Gunderson claiming chemplanes in Ft Sill and Lincoln NE. And didnt you ask for evidence of hoaxing? And when I give it to you, it is now a straw man.

Okay, if you think i am lying, then lets put it up to the others to decide.

Am I lying, about chemtrailers coming on here and being alarmed about the appearance of contrails? Am i alone in asserting this?

Originally posted by Phage
The UK government did not use chemical and biological warfare agents on their own people.

They used a harmless marker and bacteria which are ubiquitous in order to study how real CBW agents might disperse.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.

www.guardian.co.uk...


Keep it up, Phage. Your government apologetics speak for themselves.

Originally posted by firepilot
If you have not heard of those people, then you are not knowledgable at all about the chemtrails conspiracy.

Coming from a "debunker" this means nothing to me.

What you choose to focus upon, when it comes to this topic, is obviously very different than I choose to focus on. I'm showing an admitted history of the UK dumping chemical and biological agents while you want to rant about people I couldn't give a rats ass about.

reply to post by firepilot



Shoot, just go to search, and tap in "i want my blue skies" or "clear skies" or something close, and the results are pretty massive.

The whole reason I heard about chemtrails was from that dumb history channel show that promoted them, so I naturally came to the interwebs looking for answers. The majority of everything I read, Will Thomas being one of the first, was that "chemtrails" are the "white lines behind airplanes that don't dissipate".

I'm sorry, but the vast mnajority of people peddling this nonsense are peddling it under "the white lines behind planes"; it reaches a wider audience because anybody can "just look up" and "know"(because Carnicom or Thomas told them) that using their "gut" something is not right.

Forget about a knowledge in aviation and meteorology, hell, apparently you don't even have to know anything about the conspiracy theory itself, just knowing that at some point in history, the military experimented with how weather patterns can affect, and disperse a chemical agent, is proof enough that it's going on all the time now.

Originally posted by bsbray11
A fact, is something that can be proven.

An opinion, is a belief that is recognized as not actually being proven, but is a belief nonetheless.

Now since you've quite stridently being saying that pretty much everything cannot be proven, could you give an example of something that only just meets your definition of a fact. Just so we can get a feel for your definition.

For example - the birds we see in the sky. Is it a FACT that they are birds? Or just a belief?

reply to post by bsbray11


Can you provide a link that shows the toxicity of zinc cadmium sulphide in humans and at what amounts?

I'll wait.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by liejunkie01
Your comment confused me too.

Let me see if I can clarify.

A fact, is something that can be proven.

An opinion, is a belief that is recognized as not actually being proven, but is a belief nonetheless.


Should I start posting links for you to do some reading about this extremely complicated subject? I take it for granted since this was all taught to me in elementary school.

I will do my best to let you know where you are messing up. Sorry for the long reply, but I think it is needed to convey my message to you in a manner that complies with the T&C of this site, and also to help insure that I will do my part to Deny Ignorance.(since you like that word so much. I see you are calling people ignorant, which I think is really uncalled for and shows alot about you.).

This is you. I used a few different comments here.

Let me see if I can clarify


A fact, is something that can be proven.

.

fact   /fækt/ Show Spelled

[fakt] Show IPA

–noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

dictionary.reference.com...

OK, we got that out of the way. We all want the facts here, right...........?

Why did you post this?

That is literally argument from ignorance. I do think chemtrails are discernible from contrails, but I don't try to make a scientific case out of it like some fools on here, because I actually know the difference between an opinion and a fact.

but I don't try to make a scientific case out of it like some fools on here,

Why do you not try to make a scientific case out of it? You need science to discern facts, from opinion fed, garbled, wannabe, smart sounding, folk like yourself. You are really flip flopping around here. You want facts, but you are stating opinions as facts. And not only that you are kind of being an arse about it.

You totally have me, and it looks like some of the other posters around pretty confused about your stance on chemtrails.

Now I do wish to be polite.

But your demeanour is not helping you convey your message well.

Originally posted by Uncinus
Now since you've quite stridently being saying that pretty much everything cannot be proven, could you give an example of something that only just meets your definition of a fact. Just so we can get a feel for your definition.

For example - the birds we see in the sky. Is it a FACT that they are birds? Or just a belief?

It's a fact that birds fly in the sky.

But resorting to ridicule has never been, and will never be, a logical argument as to why you can just look up and assume nothing is being sprayed over your head when it has clearly been done in the past, and lied about and covered up, not to mention there are actually motives and means for such a thing on top of that.

Originally posted by ZombieJesus
Shoot, just go to search, and tap in "i want my blue skies" or "clear skies" or something close, and the results are pretty massive.

"clear skies" gives bunch of stuff about video games (EVE Online), an EPA page, solar power, and a bunch of pretty pictures of clear skies.

"i want my blue skies" does get a few posts from a gardening forum, but then it's all song lyrics

So what are you referring to?