How to Bust Chemtrails from the Ground, Very Simple

That's so cool! I didn't know any of this, thanks for sharing definitely worthy of a star and flag, but I've got to build one for myself to believe it. Also, will someone please tell me why those flying, metal beasts are attracted to the Orgonite?

Originally posted by qmantooYou all seem to think that without science we were just cavemen grunting to each other. There are many civilisations which have produced marvellous structures etc without todays scientific instruments, so relying on those are only good as long as we have logic and scientific authorities ruling our lives.

It is sad that many people have lost contact with their other senses as they may actually be able to be used to discover and to achieve far more than present day science has with its logic-based paradigms.

Yes ancient civilizations did some amazing things. But they did it with science. It was the science that was available to them at the time. You can't build the pyramids without some pretty impressive understanding of mathematics, geometry and mechanics, and a bunch of highly specific tools and instruments.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by qmantooYou all seem to think that without science we were just cavemen grunting to each other. There are many civilisations which have produced marvellous structures etc without todays scientific instruments, so relying on those are only good as long as we have logic and scientific authorities ruling our lives.

It is sad that many people have lost contact with their other senses as they may actually be able to be used to discover and to achieve far more than present day science has with its logic-based paradigms.

Yes ancient civilizations did some amazing things. But they did it with science. It was the science that was available to them at the time. You can't build the pyramids without some pretty impressive understanding of mathematics, geometry and mechanics, and a bunch of highly specific tools and instruments.

Correct, they sure did not build the pyramids with their senses, or the aquaducts either. Those were build via early engineering, not being in touch with their feelings.

Anyways, its just another case of the chemtrailers trying to move discussion away from science, and into the abstract, because the science does not support their chemtrails. I have seen it time and time again, they want to turn it towards perceptions, memories and feelings, instead of talking about meteorology, aviation, environmental testing.

Originally posted by tooo many pills
That's so cool! I didn't know any of this, thanks for sharing definitely worthy of a star and flag, but I've got to build one for myself to believe it. Also, will someone please tell me why those flying, metal beasts are attracted to the Orgonite?

They are not.

No one changes their flight plan or gps waypoints, in order to fly over some silly copper tubes.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

The one who couldn't tell where it was pointed? From the 'experiment' you wrote off because there was no control?

Do you accept the results or not?

[scratches head] Um, why so confrontational? If You are asking Me whether I believe the results of what WAS done are reported properly, I'd say "yes." If You're asking Me whether I think this was a valid test of sensitivity to plenum energy flow, I would say "no." There are far better experiments I can think of. The psychological element alone could be better controlled for: running around "shooting" people is hardly a conducive atmosphere for testing this, and it seems that perhaps the approach may have differed some with each individual.

I did not "write off" this experiment. I have valid reasons to question its methodologies.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Amaterasu

I had one in which I was blindfolded and placed my hands out about a foot apart. A friend put the shooter in between my hands facing left or right. I could tell which hand was being "shot." 100% of the time.

What do I make of that, then?

Well, you could make two thinks of that.

Firstly you could make $1,000,000 by taking the JREF One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge.
www.randi.org...

Secondly you could start a revolution in science by demonstrating it. I would start with a video that you put on youtube that shows you doing it say 20 times. Then you can move on to having it verified by neutral parties.

Both those things seem very significant. So why don't you do one, or both of them.

I will. Just at the moment, though, I do not have a shooter in My possession. And living on $58 a month with sparse transportation is proving a challenge without adding the $15 in materials. When the universe permits, it will be. I have an old analog vid-cam and the means of converting to digital, so... Awesome that idea!

Originally posted by Uncinus
Yes ancient civilizations did some amazing things. But they did it with science.

I realize you have a religious fanaticism with "science" so you don't mind rewriting history, but the scientific method was actually a product of Europe only a few hundred years ago, around the time of Isaac Newton. Civilizations before that had philosophies, and they had knowledge and wisdom, even to a technical extent, but they did not have "science." Science is based on the scientific method, a very formal structure, which, like I said, didn't even exist back then.

You can't build the pyramids without some pretty impressive understanding of mathematics, geometry and mechanics, and a bunch of highly specific tools and instruments.

That's true, but it's also true that they must have learned all of this without our modern Western scientific method. What you are afraid of acknowledging is that the scientific method itself, peer review, etc. etc. are not actually required to learn many things, if not anything at all. The saying comes to mind, "there is more than one way to skin a cat."

Are people still here trying to lie about there being no evidence that chemtrails exist?


This article alone proves that chemical and biological agents have been sprayed into the atmosphere, deliberately, by at least the UK government, for over 20 years while they lied about it:

Millions were in germ war tests

Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.

While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments.

The report reveals that military personnel were briefed to tell any 'inquisitive inquirer' the trials were part of research projects into weather and air pollution.

www.guardian.co.uk...



So let's count the number of things this article alone proves, which pisses off the trolls here:

1) Deliberately dumping chemicals (and dangerous ones at that) into the atmosphere, by government authorities, is now an admitted fact.

2) They are admitting to doing it for over 20 years for biological tests on humans alone, from 1940 to 1979.

3) They admit to lying about it and actively trying to cover it up.



I know one of the above-mentioned trolls is going to come along now and take each one of those points and spin a web of rhetoric around it to try to make them seem like trivial points, but really this is the whole back-bone of these conspiracies justified. The reason people are concerned is because, obviously, citizens do not want biological and chemical agents sprayed over them unknowingly for military test purposes, or anything else dangerous dumped into the atmosphere for any reason at all. Now the UK government has admitted it, but they're not even apologizing. They're just acknowledging that they did it. Sounds very reconciliatory of them.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Are people still here trying to lie about there being no evidence that chemtrails exist?

No-one denies they exist. Just that the rest of us call them contrails

This article alone proves that chemical and biological agents have been sprayed into the atmosphere, deliberately, by at least the UK government, for over 20 years while they lied about it

Nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand. Or will you next be claiming the use of mustard gas in WWI is proof of "chemtrails"?

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by bsbray11
Are people still here trying to lie about there being no evidence that chemtrails exist?

No-one denies they exist. Just that the rest of us call them contrails

And contrails are biological and chemical agents dumped into the atmosphere by UK for military testing too now?

This article alone proves that chemical and biological agents have been sprayed into the atmosphere, deliberately, by at least the UK government, for over 20 years while they lied about it

Nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand. Or will you next be claiming the use of mustard gas in WWI is proof of "chemtrails"?

We are talking about planes spraying biological agents over civilian populations, for testing purposes, without their knowledge.

If I didn't have an article showing that the UK government admitting it, you would already be red in the face screaming about how I didn't have any proof of such a thing.

This is perfect evidence of exactly what chemtrail conspiracy theories are about.

Originally posted by bsbray11
We are talking about planes spraying biological agents over civilian populations, for testing purposes, without their knowledge.

If I didn't have an article showing that the UK government admitting it, you would already be red in the face screaming about how I didn't have any proof of such a thing.

Most of the tests involved ground level dispersal, though some low level dispersal from aircraft (a few hundred feet above the ground) also occurred. Unlike mustard gas, none of this was visible from the ground.

But what has this to do with aircraft contrails at 30,000ft?

Analogy: the fact a lion escaped from the zoo in 1960 does not prove that every strange rustling in the hedgerow today is an escaped lion.

Originally posted by Essan
Most of the tests involved ground level dispersal, though some low level dispersal from aircraft (a few hundred feet above the ground) also occurred. Unlike mustard gas, none of this was visible from the ground.

Wait a minute... this sounds an awfully lot like you're making excuses on behalf of the UK government.

Yeah, after all, those biological and chemicals agents go good with ham and wheat too, don't they?

But what has this to do with aircraft contrails at 30,000ft?

More importantly, why does the altitude take precedence over the content of what they were dumping?

The more important fact in that article is that they were testing chemical and biological weapons on Brits without them even knowing it, and of course they lied about it to cover it up. So now you have a precedent for this sort of thing. An airplane can climb in altitude to dump whatever, without our knowledge, much more easily than it would be to prove any such thing ever happened at all. In this case the UK government admitted to something they were doing years ago so we got lucky.

Analogy: the fact a lion escaped from the zoo in 1960 does not prove that every strange rustling in the hedgerow today is an escaped lion.

Look man. I'm not telling you that any given contrail is definitely a chemical dump. So get that out of your head first. You're going to default to trying to making the assumption that they do no such thing today, aren't you? Like I said, if I didn't have an article where the UK government admitted to doing this, you would never believe it! Get your head out of the sand already. You should be pissed about this kind of thing and instead you're making excuses for the UK government. What good little sheep they've conditioned.

We are talking about planes spraying biological agents over civilian populations, for testing purposes, without their knowledge.

If I didn't have an article showing that the UK government admitting it, you would already be red in the face screaming about how I didn't have any proof of such a thing.

This is perfect evidence of exactly what chemtrail conspiracy theories are about.

So now we have biotrails, in addition to chemtrails?

Can you show us any photos of these releases from the 1950s that left trails visible from the ground? Because nowhere on the main chemtrail sites, especially as promoted by Carnicom, Will Thomas, Len Horowitz, etc, was there any talk about releasing biological tracers that were not visible from the ground, as chemtrails.

Chemtrails is supposed to be large prominent contrails, they they think are not actual contrails. Are you trying to pull a Mathis and redefine it as you see fit? Because he told us that any chemical release is part of chemtrails, so he included airshow planes and firefighting aircraft too.

And yet again, the past is not evidence of the present. Someone could allege that the Germans are getting ready to invade France, since they did it in 1940, so that is therefore evidence that it is about to happen again.

Somehow the idea of actual evidence, escapes the Insane Cloud Posse

Originally posted by firepilot
So now we have biotrails, in addition to chemtrails?

Yes, let's make up words in some pathetic display of rhetoric.

Can you show us any photos of these releases from the 1950s that left trails visible from the ground?

If the planes were at the appropriate altitude, they should be leaving contrails according to you anyway. So once again the issue comes back to, you can't just look at a "contrail" and chemically analyze what's in it with your eyeballs.

You have a lot of damned faith in your authorities that they wouldn't go behind your back and dump anything dangerous or harmful to the environment, but we've already seen that all of that faith is unjustified and just your stereotypical herd mentality.

Somehow the idea of actual evidence, escapes the Insane Cloud Posse

I just posted an article where the UK government admitted to dumping biological and chemical agents on people, just to see what it would do. That's evidence. Your rant, is not.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Are people still here trying to lie about there being no evidence that chemtrails exist?

This article alone proves that chemical and biological agents have been sprayed into the atmosphere, deliberately, by at least the UK government, for over 20 years while they lied about it:
www.guardian.co.uk...[/url]

So let's count the number of things this article alone proves, which pisses off the trolls here:

1) Deliberately dumping chemicals (and dangerous ones at that) into the atmosphere, by government authorities, is now an admitted fact.
2) They are admitting to doing it for over 20 years for biological tests on humans alone, from 1940 to 1979.
3) They admit to lying about it and actively trying to cover it up.

... really this is the whole back-bone of these conspiracies justified. The reason people are concerned is because, obviously, citizens do not want biological and chemical agents sprayed over them unknowingly for military test purposes, or anything else dangerous dumped into the atmosphere for any reason at all.

Except, that is not what the article says, at all. In fact, since the 2002 article, none of the tests have resulted in any proven illness in the populations involved!

The most this article shows is that your logic and reading comprehension abilities are completely distorted by your religious fanaticism over "chemtrails."

Why didn't you acknowledge that of all the tests disclosed, only ONE involved airplanes, and even that did not produce "chemtrails?"

Most of the experiments didn't involve harmful agents, either , but were tests of dispersal and tracking in the event of foreign assaults.

From your "source:"

The tests, carried out by government scientists at Porton Down, were designed to help the MoD assess Britain's vulnerability if the Russians were to have released clouds of deadly germs over the country.

In most cases, the trials did not use biological weapons but alternatives which scientists believed would mimic germ warfare and which the MoD claimed were harmless.

www.guardian.co.uk...

The only test involing aircraft was for tracking of a harmless mixture via its fluoresence. (I suppose they could've used fireflies, but then you'd scream about "biological spraying.")

One chapter of the report ... reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored.

That's it. No reported harm or injury; not even a mention of "trails." The application was more akin to pesticide spraying - definitely NOT "chemtrails," Not one single report of any trails or any injuries.

The other tests involved ground sprayers and ships on the sea.

In another trial ... a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the [zinc xadmium sulphide] for an hour.
...
In another chapter ... the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria ... from a military ship ... anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius.
...
Similar bacteria were released ... to determine the vulnerability of large government buildings and public transport to attack. In 1956 bacteria were released on the London Underground at lunchtime along the Northern Line between Colliers Wood and Tooting Broadway. The results show that the organism dispersed about 10 miles. Similar tests were conducted in tunnels running under government buildings in Whitehall.
...
Experiments conducted between 1964 and 1973 involved attaching germs to the threads of spiders' webs in boxes to test how the germs would survive in different environments.

www.guardian.co.uk...

So, you take the revelation that the UK government conducted secret tests to determine their vulnerability to foreign attacks, twist it to fit your agenda and distort the scope, means and purpose.

Even so, you fail fo link this to on going "chemtrails."

More diversion and distortion to further your faith isn't going to help you.

This is perfect evidence of exactly what chemtrail conspiracy theories are about.

If you mean the distortion and misrepresentation of facts, then you are 100% correct. Fault the UK govt. all you want, but the Guardian and other media have had 10 years to find fault with the "harmless" analysis, and they did not!

I just posted an article where the UK government admitted to dumping biological and chemical agents on people, just to see what it would do. That's evidence.

It is NOT evidence of "chemtrails." It is evidence of hysterics over harmless tests, largely conducted at ground level. I is also evidence of your willingness to misrepresent the facts of an article to suit your purpose.

Moreover, these tests were not "kust to see what it would do." They mimicked what were perceived to be actual threats to the populace and were conducted to find ways to protect them. Of course, you completely ignore the fact that no one ewas harmed despite the pubkic disclosure and subsequent independent invesatigations conducted by the UK and world media.

You merely add to the volumes of cobbled together anecdotes that mean nothing to the rational examination of the "chemtrail" phenomenon. ( I should more-correctly use "phenomena," because none of the faithful actually agree on what they believe they are seeing.)

deny ignorance
jw

Originally posted by jdub297
Except, that is not what the article says, at all. In fact, since the 2002 article, none of the tests have resulted in any proven illness in the populations involved!

So your argument is, yes, they were dumping experimental biological and chemical agents on people to test what it would do, but that's okay, because no one actually got sick.

That would be like a court of law releasing gang members who were arrested after a shoot-out because they didn't actually hit each other with any of the bullets.


The only fanaticism here is your own, but following with the rest of the herd as you are, it's alright, because you will ultimately be of no consequence to the changes that will inevitably come anyway. Just keep defending criminal governments who perpetrate one abuse after another only to have their asses kissed for it.

If the planes were at the appropriate altitude, they should be leaving contrails according to you anyway. So once again the issue comes back to, you can't just look at a "contrail" and chemically analyze what's in it with your eyeballs.

You have a lot of damned faith in your authorities that they wouldn't go behind your back and dump anything dangerous or harmful to the environment, but we've already seen that all of that faith is unjustified and just your stereotypical herd mentality.

Whoa, did a chemtrailer just say that you can not chemically analyze contrails? Because chemtrailers have long said that you can look at contrail and know its not just water. Thats the whole basis of "Chemtrails", that you can look at a contrail and know it is not made of water. I will be sure tell TPTB to get your debunker check to you ASAP :0

So, you just poke a giant whole in the chemtrails religion.

And no, I dont have "faith", I am a rationalist. When a claim is made, I want to see actual evidence. A past event is not evidence of a present event. I like tangible verifiable proof, not perceptions, memories and feelings.

You are the one that has faith that you are presently being sprayed, because in the UK there were tests in the 1960s. And you think we should share your faith that we are being sprayed upon in some secret program, when you do not give us evidence that we are.

I release a lot of CO2 and DHMO when I fly, am I guilting of chemtrailing the populace?

Originally posted by firepilot
Whoa, did a chemtrailer just say that you can not chemically analyze contrails? Because chemtrailers have long said that you can look at contrail and know its not just water. Thats the whole basis of "Chemtrails", that you can look at a contrail and know it is not made of water. I will be sure tell TPTB to get your debunker check to you ASAP :0

You realize that would also mean you can't say everything is a contrail just because you're too ignorant to know any better, right?

That is literally argument from ignorance. I do think chemtrails are discernible from contrails, but I don't try to make a scientific case out of it like some fools on here, because I actually know the difference between an opinion and a fact.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by firepilot
Whoa, did a chemtrailer just say that you can not chemically analyze contrails? Because chemtrailers have long said that you can look at contrail and know its not just water. Thats the whole basis of "Chemtrails", that you can look at a contrail and know it is not made of water. I will be sure tell TPTB to get your debunker check to you ASAP :0

You realize that would also mean you can't say everything is a contrail just because you're too ignorant to know any better, right?

That is literally argument from ignorance. I do think chemtrails are discernible from contrails, but I don't try to make a scientific case out of it like some fools on here, because I actually know the difference between an opinion and a fact.

So you do, or you dont think you can look at a contrail and tell its something else? You seem to take both positions with that.

I can say that every photo i have seen is a contrail, until i get proof otherwise. Contrailing has happened since the 1920s, every since aircraft could get up there. If someone is going to tell me that aircraft at high altitude are actually involved in something nefarious, and that their trails are not trails, I am not going to take them at face value, just because.

I want to see evidence, something logical and not faith based. It is not faith that contrails can persist, it is fact. It is not faith that it is bitterly cold up high, it is fact. Cirrus clouds, are not faith, but fact. Increased cirrus before precipitation, is not faith but fact.

Its not just that your side does not give evidence, they give hoaxes and totally false information, which ends up pointing event more towards the rational explanation. Each time a chemtrailer make a false claim (Boeing 777 interior photo, KC-135 water spray attachment for icing, fuel dump nozzles, etc) that ends up also debunking chemtrails too.

What were your thougths about the hoaxes used to promote chemtrails, since you did ask for evidence of hoaxing.

reply to post by bsbray11


I'm making no excuses for anyone. Just wondering why you're muddying the waters by bringing up a wholly different issue?

These tests have no bearing at all on whether all contrails are contrails or whether some contrails, whilst looking exactly like contrails, are actually chemtrails being deliberately sprayed for whichever purpose it is today.

But if you're offering as proof that what you see in the sky are chemtrails is the fact that ships were used to disperse biological agents along the British coast in order to determine the effects of a Soviet attack, then I really don't have anything else to say.