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Explain the difference between teen bullies and The Westboro Baptist church????

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posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:55 AM
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After reading a few of the threads on Westboro Baptist Church and Joplin...I am at a loss as to what the difference by law is between high school bullying and EXACTLY what WBC does?? I TOTALLY understand the free speech concept and legally the fact that they CAN do what it is they do....so does this mean bullying can ALSO get put by the wayside and considered "free speech" ?? We are under a time of bullying being a forefront issue to deal with in our teenagers, so how can we justify WBC bullying innocent people??? There are fine lines here between moral law, and governmental law....I see both sides of the WBC debates around these threads...for those that continue to say that WBC has the legal "right" to free speech and to tell greiving people outlandish hatred spewed in their speeches....how does this differ with teen bullying? Are the bullies within their free speech also??? As I stated earlier, this question only arose in my mind after reading other threads on WBC....just curious what others may think about these 2 very different, and yet the same, issues???

Mods...wasn't sure where to place, move as necessary please??
edit on 1-6-2011 by rockhndr because: placement




posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Bullies use force not protest


when you use force = assault


protest without force = freespeech



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 


Not all bullies use force, most bullies use words just as WBC does...and by your words, it's ok for a teen "bully" to use their words to hurt others...and this is "free speech"?? Aren't some teen bullies being charged for their "free speech" then???
edit on 1-6-2011 by rockhndr because: add question



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


words don't hurt fists do


they can scream yell all they want aslong as there not hurting anyone physically . that would be breaking the law...

how hard is it for you to put your headphones on blast your music and smile at the protestors?

they can scream yell all they like you'll be in your own little world laughing at them and they won't understand why lol


The WB church just looking for attention with shock and awe . The more attention you give them like making threads about em and the other threads i seen the more fuel they get


we have no one to blame but our selfs , but they don't even bother me they have all the right to do as they wish in a peaceful manner and obeying the law .



As for the bully using words the child can

Ignore the bully. It's hard to shrug off the insults, rumors, and remarks, but if you make it look like the name-calling isn't harming you, then the bully loses power and confidence.If the bully still doesn't stop talk to a teacher or a parent, someone you can trust
Know that verbal bullies often have their friends join in the "fun". Make the main bully look weak in front of their friends by ignoring them by pretending that they're not even there

Tell a teacher, trusted adult, or parent if the bullying is consistent. Make sure you ask to be kept anonymous


Remain civil, no matter what. Getting aggressive might provoke them to use physical bullying, and you could get in trouble with your parents or school. Moreover, dealing with their insults in a civilized manner could make them seem immature in comparison.


Don't Listen to the rumors the bully says about you. Don't bother trying to tell everyone they're not true. Doing this may make you sound like you're trying to cover up something.


Walk away if the bully is actually insulting you to your face, as this makes them look weak. Do this if the insult really hurts, so you can walk away and deal with it yourself

Tell someone how you feel; if you don't have a close friend, talk to your school's guidance counselor. If they can't solve the problem, they can at least give you some advice, or help you cope with the pain

www.wikihow.com...


verbal bullying are just words my good man ... its only offensive if you take it that way



edit on 1-6-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


The difference is they are adults and should be a little more respectful... Free speech or not; maybe we should protest at their funerals?
edit on 1-6-2011 by DrNotforhire because: added



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 


Ahhh, but words obviously DO hurt when teens are driven to commit suicide by bullying-my point I guess is WHY is it considered free speech to spew hate via The WBC...and yet we are putting so much effort into calling attention to bullying, etc. etc....seems a bit two-faced doesn't it??



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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Explain the difference between teen bullies and The Westboro Baptist church????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

teen bullies do not have 3-4 multi-million dollar
lawyers representing them in every court case
like WBC does.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


VERY good point Boondock!!!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 


LOL!!! Chucky!! That made me spit my coffee out....just to let ya' know...I'm 42, and a mother....you are funny!!

I'll be sure and pass that advice to my 3 kids though...Thank-you!!
edit on 1-6-2011 by rockhndr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


commit suicide because of bullying ? Well clearly they didnt use google and follow the steps above

they commiteed suicide based on ignorance thinking there was no way out ... you can blame that ignorance on there friends the peers who witniess the bullying and the parents who didnt know any differnt ..


if your gonna commit suicide over a few words your a waste of dna and i feel sorry for the millions of other sperm cells that didnt make it but you did lol


Kids need a education course on bullying in school to prevent such things from happening . They need to know the steps what to do and how pointless it is to stress over it . Espically when there are so many solutions available .


kids who bully in schools are also remember just children who are in school to learn . When it comes down to it there are many things that could be done but arent . The fault lies from bottoem up .

Westboro are not children in schoolyards . They are grown adults expressing there views in protests without harming anyone ... if you don't like what they have to say don't listien .

What you see as disrespect to dead soliders they see as consequences of whatever it is ...

its only disrespectful if you take it that way ...


imagine if the word f word really meant an apple ?

and we called apples the f word and the f word apple lol do you get the drift?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by DrNotforhire
reply to post by rockhndr
 


The difference is they are adults and should be a little more respectful... Free speech or not; maybe we should protest at their funerals?
edit on 1-6-2011 by DrNotforhire because: added


Spot on.

Surely free speech does have limitations,inciting racism, homophobia for instance could and oft does cause distress and worse to those it is fired at.

Imho the WBC causes more pain than a teen bully who has to grow up and mature, Jesus taught love and tolerance, shame that most of this tolerance is outside the WBC and other organised religions.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


WBC does not nor has ever demanded my lunch money, nor anyone I am aware of.
But they still are a bunch of (insert bad word) bags.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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I am going to try and pose my question a different way.....WHY are the WBC allowed to do what they do under the guise of free speech...yet bullying (no matter the age of the bully) is becoming an offense in the eyes of the law?? Wouldn't they be the same thing?? Does the bully NOT have a right of free speech also?? Which side of the coin do people want?? That is the point I'm trying to make...I have heard so much about free speech and it is cut and dry with no shades of gray within the law...THERE IS a shade of gray and the very comparison of these 2 issues is the example....



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


My post has more merit now doesn't it
its all age.... seems like once you turn 18 it doesn't matter what you do as long as it's not on public school property... I mean it makes sense... it a really messed up way.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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This is very interesting subject. I can see where you're coming from in comparing the WBC to child bullies. They certainly act like children and bullies whenever they rear their hateful heads.

But I think you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Children who bully other kids at school are breaking the "Code of Conduct" of the school district. That's why their "free speech" is punishable. In all honestly, no child has free speech rights in Americas school system.

On the other hand, the WBC are a group of hateful adults who parade around under the guise of christianity. They, as adults, have completely different rights than children. They have money and lawyers to fight for them, and I think thats the whole reason why they exist. the WBC people WANT someone to try and shut them up so they can sue sue sue!

Remember Waco, Texas. If the authorities really wanted to do something about the WBC they would. But they are not troubled at all. Also, (and this is just what I think), I think that the government kinda likes having religious radicals stirring things up. Keeps the people distracted.
edit on 1-6-2011 by ProjectBlue because: fixed typos



Originally posted by rockhndr
WHY are the WBC allowed to do what they do under the guise of free speech...yet bullying (no matter the age of the bully) is becoming an offense in the eyes of the law?? Wouldn't they be the same thing??


No, once you turn 18 years old, you're allowed to say whatever you want, just like the people of WBC. As long as you don't directly threaten someones life or lay your hands on someone, its totally legal.

Now, people are being arrested across the country for their "free speech", but I think it has more to do with police officers being told they are above the law and can do what they want. If someone offends a cop with their free speech there is NOTHING to stop that cop from arresting them. Thats just they way it has become, sad to say.

No one arrests the WBC followers because NO ONE wants to be sued. The WBC have the money and the means to defend themselves in a court of law, unlike the average citizen. Also the media would have a field day.


Sorry for the extra long post. I didnt want to post two seprate comments.

edit on 1-6-2011 by ProjectBlue because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by DrNotforhire
 


Yes, I definitely see that now.....it's kind of like teaching our children to be good sports, taking them to a pro-game and watching the players duke it out on the field....No wonder our kids are screwed up *sigh*



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by rockhndr
After reading a few of the threads on Westboro Baptist Church and Joplin...I am at a loss as to what the difference by law is between high school bullying and EXACTLY what WBC does?? I TOTALLY understand the free speech concept and legally the fact that they CAN do what it is they do....so does this mean bullying can ALSO get put by the wayside and considered "free speech" ?? We are under a time of bullying being a forefront issue to deal with in our teenagers, so how can we justify WBC bullying innocent people??? There are fine lines here between moral law, and governmental law....I see both sides of the WBC debates around these threads...for those that continue to say that WBC has the legal "right" to free speech and to tell greiving people outlandish hatred spewed in their speeches....how does this differ with teen bullying? Are the bullies within their free speech also??? As I stated earlier, this question only arose in my mind after reading other threads on WBC....just curious what others may think about these 2 very different, and yet the same, issues???

Mods...wasn't sure where to place, move as necessary please??
edit on 1-6-2011 by rockhndr because: placement


Interesting question.

First off, within an actual school, on school property, during school hours, most students are under eighteen, therefore not legally an adult, and because they are subject to the school codes of conduct they do not legally the same rights of "free speech" as the constitution grants to citizens in public. Even in public universities, free speech generally has designated "zones" and students--whether knowingly or not--agree to a code of conduct that limits their freedom of speech and expression unless they are within these zones.

While, what WBC does is disgusting, and they DO have the right, legally, (for speech protection is there mostly for unpopular speech), i think that the "point" is they are (might be) using the guise of "protesting" to inflict emotional harm on another person or group, whereas a bully is simply...inflicting (or trying to inflict) emotional harm without an actual "message." If a bully were NOT on school grounds during school hours, then it would likely be seen as, once again, harassment, or stalking, what with the intentional infliction of emotional harm, although one could argue they are "protesting"...*something* against that person. "I'm protesting his bad haircut," or "I'm protesting that his parents are gay," or something.
Of course, it could also be seen and interpreted as stalking/harassment DURING school hours/on school property too...

Plus, protesting is a form of speech, albeit symbolic (even if nothing is said); bullying is NOT speech, at all.

And teens (NOT being legal adults and under 18) do NOT have the same rights as adults when it comes to free expression and free speech.

I think also, that in the case of WBC, they are "protesting" (wait, what exactly DO they protest?) either the *people* who have died/been killed, or the "tolerance" society has for what they perceive are "sinful ways," so it's not like they are trying to purposefully target/harm the people who happen to be present (except emotionally, but they would probably not admit to that), but who happen to take offense, if that makes sense.

I think they (WBC) are attention-loving hate-filled sadists hiding behind the banner of free speech and the right to protest, and bullies are the same just not having anything to legally "protest." Of course, WBC *thinks* they have a valid "message," and bullies just like to cause people discomfort, period. IMO.

I am not saying i agree with it all, but i am trying to analyze your OP premise in a rationale way.

This brings up a god point, though: where is the line between free speech and harassment??

Now my head hurts, and i have not been awake long enough or had enough coffee...
edit on 1-6-2011 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Liquesence
 


Excellent points from you and ProjectBlue up there...Thank-you...
....and sorry for the headache, it gave me one too, which is EXACTLY why I had to ask and share the pain...



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by rockhndr
I am going to try and pose my question a different way.....WHY are the WBC allowed to do what they do under the guise of free speech...yet bullying (no matter the age of the bully) is becoming an offense in the eyes of the law?? Wouldn't they be the same thing?? Does the bully NOT have a right of free speech also?? Which side of the coin do people want?? That is the point I'm trying to make...I have heard so much about free speech and it is cut and dry with no shades of gray within the law...THERE IS a shade of gray and the very comparison of these 2 issues is the example....


I'm gonna copy what i wrote in my other response, to (hopefully) better answer this question:




Protesting is a form of speech, albeit symbolic (even if nothing is said); bullying is NOT speech, at all.

And teens (NOT being legal adults and under 18) do NOT have the same rights as adults when it comes to free expression and free speech.


Bullying is NOT considered speech (to my knowledge). There is no shade of gray here, that i can find. That's the legal essence.

There is a line between what is considered speech and what is not considered speech, and there is no gray. If there is a question as to the grayness, it would have to be taken to the SCOTUS for them to decide whether those "gray" areas fall within speech or not speech.

Even though actions can be considered speech, bullying is not.


edit on 1-6-2011 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


Your common bully is not motivated by a monolithic, authoritarian doctrine and most high school bullies grow up to see the error of their ways unlike religious extremists who can (in their opinion) rationalise everything they do with their belief in God.

Personally I'd ban the WBC from getting anywhere near a military funeral, national landmark etc simply because it constitutes a breach of the peace and is incitement. What they do isn't freedom of speech, it's harassment.
edit on 1-6-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)



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