magnetics alone requires no power input which makes it the best source to focus in regards to over unity.

if you could clam shell a spherical magnet and somehow make it spin in one direction without a shaft and without a breaking affect. then that's one answer
The other is magnetic vibration

Oh, forgot to add.
I do know of someone who has experience in this field, who is now working on replicating what was confiscated in the 60's by an FBI raid.
His name is Ralph Ring and he worked with Otis Carr (Tesla protege) on the OTC X1 project. In fact he was one of the pilots of the X1's maiden voyage before the FBI closed them down.
Ralph is now working with several groups around the world, and is commited to open source the tech.
I can post a few links, but if you're seriously interested, he's not that hard to find

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
sure they work, but one with a closed loop requires an initial cop of 6 or greater, which is not impossible but extremly difficult to acheive in our 3 spatial and one time dimension

May i ask what "cop" stands for? As in "initial cop"?

Are you saying that the reason we can't make a free energy device power itself is that we lack two extra dimensions in which to connect the output cables, or something like that?


I guarantee you, that if you show me a device that actually puts out more (non-imaginary) power than it requires to operate itself, and can use that output to power stuff, i can make it power itself, so that no batteries or other kinds of regular (and boring) power sources will be required on the input. Anyone with some knowledge in the field of electronics could do it, even most hobbyists, never mind professionals.


In several threads i saw people asking why these devices can't be "looped", with that being the reason for not believing in them..

And it is a good reason... When these inventors are using batteries or other power sources and claiming that the battery only provides a trigger and/or signal or "information" or whatever, but they can't remove the battery from the circuit after starting the device, there is absolutely no reason to believe anything they are saying.


If for example you have a power source that puts out 8W of power, it can easily be used to power a device that requires 1W, and the power source will still have 7W to spare.
So if you invent a magical power source, that uses 1W of power and creates 8W on the output (similar to the alleged ratio of the device in the video here), why can the inventor not use one-eight of the output, to provide power to the input in the first place, eliminating the battery altogether?

If i had that device and it worked the way they say, that's exactly what i would do, and i'd use the remaining 7/8ths of the output to power a bunch of LED's, making a flashlight that never needs recharging, as proof of concept. And if it required some external power to start it up when needed, i'd include a tiny rechargeable coin cell, that would provide the required "kick", and would then recharge itself from the output.

Even if for some reason an eternal flashlight was the only thing you could make with it, that would still make the inventor rich! And besides it's intended use, thousands of people would be buying them, just to take them appart, and see what else they can make with the power source, not to mention figuring out how it works! The inventor could be a millionaire overnight!

And yet for some reason, all we ever get are a bunch of promises, and some kits where it's your fault that they don't work! So why should any reasonable person believe anything these inventors are saying?


Is this the point you say "But, ...dimensions....!"?
Are some of the inventors actually saying that their devices DO create more power than they use, but that we can't use that power, because it flows through dimensions other than our own?

But of course they are. That, or they say that the output power only appears lower than the input, because the rest comes in the form of ether flow, or mystic vibrations and so on..

Let's say for a moment, that this is true. In that case, what's the point? Aren't these devices supposed to power our stuff, and allow us to go "off the grid"? How, when my local electronics store doesn't carry six dimensional cables?

Besides, if all this free energy only flows through the fifth and sixth dimension, or takes the form of ether, and thus can't be used or measured, in that case, how do these inventors even know it's there? Since this is often their excuse (sorry, i meant explanation), how do they know how much more power they created?!? How do they measure this free energy? Do they have six dimensional oscilloscopes? Did i miss something in the latest Tektronix catalog?

My questions to such inventors would be:
- If it's not in our universe, how can it be measured, never mind used?
- If it can't be used or measured, what are the inventors claims based on then? And what's the point?
- How do they calculate the gain? Gut feeling? Tarot readings? Pendulums? Channeling?

It must be channeling, if the energy is flowing in the direction of parallel universes. I guess they just ask the aliens there?


But let's forget about the devices that can only power other universes, and get back to ours for now. After all, that is what we need, right? Luckily there are people claiming they invented devices, that CAN power stuff right here and now, without multidimensional transformers.

If a device works, if it creates more power than it uses, and can power an entire house, or anything at all for that matter, why can it not power itself? I mean, that's the holy grail of free energy! It's the whole point, the basic idea behind it - creating perpetual motion or it's electronic equivalent - a device that moves or otherwise powers itself (+ other things).


Now the inventor might say "Well, even tho it does produce more power than it uses, it can't power itself, because the electricity on the output is changed, it becomes incompatible (or whatever, for whatever reason)...".

I'm afraid that is no excuse. The only important question is still: "Can it power stuff in our universe?" Because as long as it can power stuff, like an electric motor for example (and many allegedly can), then it is apparently capable of creating magnetic fields, when flowing through coils. And if it's capable of that, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to use a more or less regular transformer, to convert the output power into something that could be used to power the input of the very same device.

But then the inventor might say "But, but... The resulting magnetic fields are also incompatible, it won't work.".

Again, that is no excuse. As long as it can power stuff! If it can power a motor, we can stick a shaft in that motor, and put a generator on the other end of the shaft. There will be some losses, but hey, we have 8 times the input power to work with, and now we can use the output of the generator to use a part of all that power, to power the device itself.

Problem solved! Now where's that free energy device?

If it can power stuff in this universe, then there is no reason whatsoever for it not being able to power itself at the same time (even if for mystical reasons we had to jump through hoops)!


So what then are the reasons no one is making these devices self powered and selling them, when they claim that they work?
And if it's because they are so afraid of getting killed by TPTB, why then would they sell their plans and kits? Online! Isn't that even worse than selling working devices, in the eyes of TPTB?!?


Have any of these inventors ever invented anything except elaborate excuses for why it won't work or why it works but they can't offer working models?


And BTW... Wanting to believe is not a criteria for something being true, i'm afraid.
I would absolutelly love to believe such devices are possible myself! But that doesn't mean i will, without ANY reason whatsoever. And so far, i haven't seen anyone providing any reasons to believe.

Sad thing is, if some garage inventor some day in the future actually came up with a working concept, they will be ignored and ridiculed, because of all these scammers, who are ripping people off. Luckily for them, this won't be a problem, since they will only have to show it working, to get investors. And if it would actually work, they won't have a reason to hide it and make excuses...


P.S. Wasn't planning on writing such a long post, but i wanted to cover as many excuses as i could think of...

Originally posted by deezee
So what then are the reasons no one is making these devices self powered and selling them, when they claim that they work?
And if it's because they are so afraid of getting killed by TPTB, why then would they sell their plans and kits? Online! Isn't that even worse than selling working devices, in the eyes of TPTB?!?

Indeed, why WOULD they sell their plans and kits online? Maybe because they want people to buy them, and experiment with them?

So what are the reasons no one's making them? No one wants to be the first to spend a bit of money?

Can i ask one thing first: Did none of what i was trying to explain make any sense to you? It's a serious question BTW, please don't take it as an attack.


Before i continue, I will assume for a moment that you are capable of at least considering possibilities different to what you want to believe, if not also weighing them logically. Otherwise it's pointless to say anything:

Originally posted by cupocoffee
Indeed, why WOULD they sell their plans and kits online? Maybe because they want people to buy them, and experiment with them?

Or maybe because with plans and kits, the potential builder will be less likely to complain, when it doesn't work, because many of them will blame themselves? Especially after the "inventor" tells them: "I don't know what you did wrong, mine is working... No refunds!"...

Are you suggesting that it's absolutely impossible, that this could ever be the reason? Do you believe that none of these people could ever do such a thing? Do you believe that all of them are 100% genuine, and that people never ever try to rip others off for profit?

Don't you know how many people have been ripped off big time, precisely this way, mostly as gullible investors, over the last 150 years or so? Are you saying that never happened?

Originally posted by cupocoffee
So what are the reasons no one's making them? No one wants to be the first to spend a bit of money?

See, this is where you are wrong. You are repeating this one sentence over and over again, when it's not even true. Did you read the last couple of posts before mine? You believe it's an isolated incident?

Do you really think no one ever bought these kits and tried to make them work?
If they did, and the devices worked, do you really think there wouldn't be hundreds, and by now thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people doing it as well, not to mention copies from competitors appearing? I mean the inventors don't even patent these things! There are people, who would abuse this situation, make a copy, and patent it themselves, to corner the market. But it would have to work first..

So why is this not happening? You can't really claim people are not buying, when these inventors even register companies, with the single purpose of selling these kits.

Believers go as far as buying "time machines", which are only supposed to work in vortexes, and when they don't work, the unscrupulous seller tells them, that it's because the vortex was simply magnetic, and didn't have enough "mystic vibrations", or that they didn't believe hard enough, or some such thing.

And you're saying that nobody is buying the free energy kits? Seriously?
They are buying, and they are building, but when it doesn't work, they become discouraged, while possibly even blaming themselves for the failure.

Problem is, you don't want to see that, you only want to see the wonderful claims of the sellers, and their supporters, none of whom have any evidence. But that's OK. They aren't targeting the people who'd want evidence anyway.


Also, if these inventors are so good at heart, that they would only share their discoveries with the world, but don't want to make any real money with them - why don't they instead get some investors, build final models, make bucket loads of money, and then use all that money to provide more of these devices to those who need them most, at lowest possible costs?

Why don't they try to make an actual difference, instead of just teasing people with promises, while nothing ever changes in their field?


Feel free to ignore all the questions again. I can't expect miracles if i don't believe in them, can i?

Originally posted by deezee
Or maybe because with plans and kits, the potential builder will be less likely to complain, when it doesn't work, because many of them will blame themselves? Especially after the "inventor" tells them: "I don't know what you did wrong, mine is working... No refunds!"...

Again, you just assume that it doesn't work.

What if it does work?

Do you really think no one ever bought these kits and tried to make them work?

No one around here has ever bought one and tried to make it work, to the best of my knowledge.

Everyone just assumes it won't work, just like you did.

The few people that you can find on Youtube that have one seem pretty pleased with it though...

Feel free to ignore all the questions again. I can't expect miracles if i don't believe in them, can i?

All your questions and arguments are based on the assumption that it doesn't work.

What if it does?

It couldn't be as simple as the Free Energy master giving away the secret and all the necessary parts in a $4000 kit, could it?

Or..... could it?

Has anybody around here actually tested the thing yet? Noooooo......?

Originally posted by cupocoffee

Originally posted by deezee
So what then are the reasons no one is making these devices self powered and selling them, when they claim that they work?
And if it's because they are so afraid of getting killed by TPTB, why then would they sell their plans and kits? Online! Isn't that even worse than selling working devices, in the eyes of TPTB?!?

Indeed, why WOULD they sell their plans and kits online? Maybe because they want people to buy them, and experiment with them?

So what are the reasons no one's making them? No one wants to be the first to spend a bit of money?

You've been repeating this same flawed argument over and over again. It doesn't hold any more water upon repetition. Noone wants to be the first to save thousands and thousands in fuel and utility bills every year? Nope, still doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Fact of the matter is, no one who believes in these devices actually owns one. As I said in my OP, I'm not asking for videos, I'm not asking for "friend if a friend" anecdotes, I'm asking if anyone on here is personally using such a device. You could power your car, power your house, filter your own water, heat you home, cook your food and so on without ever spending another penny in your lifetime so the "No one wants to be the first to spend a bit of money" argument is nothing but a weak cop out.

Originally posted by cupocoffee
Again, you just assume that it doesn't work.
What if it does work?

Actually, i was trying to present an alternate possibility to the one you keep assuming. And i tried to present the reasons for it's astronomical probability. That's why i said i am hoping you can at least consider possibilities different to what you want to believe.

I thought i used simple enough language for everyone to understand, as long as they at least want to. But i'll be honest with you - i wasn't trying to "convert" anyone. I know it's impossible. It reminds me of how people never ever want to let go of psychological defense mechanisms (even if they're hurting them), and the more someone tries to show them the truth, the harder they hold on.

As for assuming. You know what projecting means?
Many of us provided reason after reason for why it is a hoax. And you're calling that an assumption, while consciously ignoring all the reasons given, and yourself simply assuming that it works...

What if it does work, you ask? Well in that case, someone (like the "inventor") would have to answer all, or at least most of the concerns listed, or stop making the mentioned excuses, and show results that make sense, instead of only making up "reasons" for why it won't do this or that...

If it does work, there has to be a REASON, to believe it does. Or better yet, more than one.
It's that simple. Show me the reasons. You do know what a reason is, right? Or do you just believe everything, the less sense it makes the better?

And if for a change, you are actually willing to answer a question, answer this one:
- What are YOUR reasons for believing it works? Make a list. But try to keep it to actual reasons.

No one around here has ever bought one and tried to make it work, to the best of my knowledge.
Everyone just assumes it won't work, just like you did.

Are you saying you are the only one who ever believed in these devices? Are you really claiming that no one ever bought any of the kits available, and tried to make them work, when there is evidence to the contrary even in this very thread?

Talk about assumptions...

You're the one assuming that i'm just assuming. You're also probably assuming that i don't want to believe it's possible, and that i have something against honest people who would like to try to achieve it.

I don't. What i do have something against is people who would use other peoples gullibility to rip them off. That's what bothers me.

Otherwise, i have in the past looked into these types of unusual devices, hoping that perhaps there may be something interesting and maybe even useful i could build myself. But unfortunately for the sellers, i know a bit about electronics and physics, so it wasn't so easy to convince me with nonsense. And sadly, that was all i ever found - nonsense explanations, empty promises, and excuses. The only reason i ever found to believe in it at all, was wishful thinking.

But you're suggesting people should spend thousands of dollars on these empty promises, without ANY reason. If you're so convinced, why don't you put your money where your mouth is? You can always find someone, who will assemble it for you, just don't blame them, when it doesn't work.

All your questions and arguments are based on the assumption that it doesn't work.

Actually, my questions were meant to show you what any reasonable person with at least some knowledge in the field, might ask themselves when faced with claims like these. Are you denying that questions are important, when trying to find the truth? That's an important question - Do you believe differentiating between truth and fiction or even straight out lies is irrelevant?

As for my arguments - i kept all of them focused on the information provided by the inventors themselves.

Fact is, these "inventors" are not willing to provide any actual evidence that their devices work. Why is that?
Instead they give countless "reasons" for why it won't do this or that, or why it only appears not to be working. So for the most part i was trying to show why the inventors excuses were complete nonsense.

If someone had a working device, they would by default either be able to answer all those questions and more, or wouldn't even make any of those excuses in the first place. And they would be able (and more than willing) to provide evidence for their claims. It's quite simple really.


I wrote much more, but i'm starting to get the feeling that i'm repeating myself, so i'll stop and delete the rest. If you don't want to understand, there's no point in trying to explain it all twice. For those who do want to understand, explaining it once is probably enough, and if not, they can always ask for a better explanation. What they won't do is cover their ears with their hands, saying "NA, NA, NA, NA, NA!" until everyone gives up.

But i do have to give you some credit. At least you're not using insults, to attack everyone who doesn't agree with you.

Originally posted by john_bmth
Fact of the matter is, no one who believes in these devices actually owns one. As I said in my OP, I'm not asking for videos, I'm not asking for "friend if a friend" anecdotes, I'm asking if anyone on here is personally using such a device. You could power your car, power your house, filter your own water, heat you home, cook your food and so on without ever spending another penny in your lifetime so the "No one wants to be the first to spend a bit of money" argument is nothing but a weak cop out.

Right, the benefits would be endless!

And yet, whenever I suggest that we get one and test one out - everyone just assumes it won't work.

Maybe you people are the problem here, not me.

Originally posted by deezee
Actually, i was trying to present an alternate possibility to the one you keep assuming.

I assume nothing.

Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. We cannot know for certain unless we test.

It is all of you who jump to conclusions and assume it doesn't work - without doing any testing.

Now is that proper Scientific Method, to start by assuming it doesn't work, and then refuse to test it? I don't know....

Are you saying you are the only one who ever believed in these devices? Are you really claiming that no one ever bought any of the kits available, and tried to make them work, when there is evidence to the contrary even in this very thread?

What evidence? RogerT's posts?

RogerT did not buy one of the kits - he built a SchoolGirl Motor. Totally different unit than the 10-coil kit.

The SchoolGirl Motor does not output enough power to power a house - nor did they ever claim that it does.

I bet you the 10-coil unit does output enough power though....

Can you tell me what is the difference between the ssg and the 10 coil unit, apart from the number of coils?
If I've shelled out to make one model, I'd need a bit more info on why I should shell out to make another.
Does Bedini claim the 10 coil unit can be looped as a self runner and power a house? If so, I'll probably give it a try.

Errm, why don't you read my posts, then you might not have to ask me to repeat myself

Originally posted by RogerT
Can you tell me what is the difference between the ssg and the 10 coil unit, apart from the number of coils?
If I've shelled out to make one model, I'd need a bit more info on why I should shell out to make another.
Does Bedini claim the 10 coil unit can be looped as a self runner and power a house? If so, I'll probably give it a try.

RogerT I have been curious about that myself. They seem to be being a bit tight-lipped as to what exactly the 10-coil unit is and isn't capable of.

Do you want to request more information and specifications from Bedini and Friedrich?